Tom Grooms Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Hey Guys, Im in the A/V biz and sell my fair share of Klipsch products. Last week a good customer of mine took home the Reference 7 system. Its a 7.1 dedicated Home theater with a front projector. RF-7s, RC-7, RS-7's, RB 35's and the big daddy 15" sub. He is using a Pioneer Elite VSX-59TXi receiver connected to the Pioneer Elite DV-59 DVD player. I received an email from this gentleman tonight that he is experiencing a lisp during movie dialog. his quote "As I have been listening to the speakers, I am having a problem that I havent been able to correct. During dialogue, I hear a lisping sound. When people are speaking, the S and TS sounds are very shrill, like a lisp." I have sold quite a few of these systems and have the same receiver / speaker set-up in my projector room at work. I never noticed any lisp in that room or any other installation I have done around these components. My 1st thoughts are placement, room effect and possibly calibration (MCACC). I thought I would join here and pose these questions to the experts. Any ideas? Lets help my customer get the experience he deserves (and paid for). Thanks In Advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 ---------------- On 4/17/2005 9:50:25 PM Tom Grooms wrote: Hey Guys, Im in the A/V biz and sell my fair share of Klipsch products. Last week a good customer of mine took home the Reference 7 system. Its a 7.1 dedicated Home theater with a front projector. RF-7s, RC-7, RS-7's, RB 35's and the big daddy 15" sub. He is using a Pioneer Elite VSX-59TXi receiver connected to the Pioneer Elite DV-59 DVD player. I received an email from this gentleman tonight that he is experiencing a lisp during movie dialog. his quote "As I have been listening to the speakers, I am having a problem that I havent been able to correct. During dialogue, I hear a lisping sound. When people are speaking, the S and TS sounds are very shrill, like a lisp." I have sold quite a few of these systems and have the same receiver / speaker set-up in my projector room at work. I never noticed any lisp in that room or any other installation I have done around these components. My 1st thoughts are placement, room effect and possibly calibration (MCACC). I thought I would join here and pose these questions to the experts. Any ideas? Lets help my customer get the experience he deserves (and paid for). Thanks In Advance ---------------- welcome to the forum! i should ask - what speakers did your customer replace when he bought his RF-7 system??? going from a speaker with a rolled off top end to the RF-7's could definitely make your customer hear things that he never heard before.... as to your question - i would be inclined to say that it is your customer's room the MCACC could very possibly correct his situation but it might require some manual adjustments to the eq settings after running the auto setup i have the KLF-C7 center and never have experienced this "sibilance".... as well as never hearing it at the local ultimate stores here in the minneapolis area so when is your ultimate electronics closing?.... or is there some big buyer who will keep at least some of the stores open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Grooms Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 If you're following the news, Mark Wattles has put in his bid to buy the remaining assets of the company and if the bid is accepted, he will take the company private. The problem with the customers room is the left front speaker placement. It is slammed (<2') up against the side wall and toed inward. Early reflections are probably to blame for smearing the soundstage. Hopefully a few MCACC tweaks and maybe some minor room treatments will get him in shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Perhaps he's doing the MCACC calibration wrong or has some acoustic problem that is making the reciever think it needs to crank the high end. Anothing possibility is that he has the mains wired out of phase, causing a complete lack of bass which would totally sound "lispy." (Wouldn't the calibration detect that though?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Did you just talk to him in the past 30 minutes from your first post? (between 9:50 and 10:25) Sounds like a room issue for sure, but a lisp? He would have to have a nice echo in there as well, but again perhaps you already knew that since your first post not sure. The RF7s do not impart a lisp in my room anyway. Good luck May be a studder now and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Is it possible that the customer may have inadvertantly mal-adjusted the treble adjustment, or it has been done without his knowing? Another possibility is the mastering of the source material, that is a little " hot " on the top end, causing sibilance. Get him to try a different source or dvd, to see if the problem is source related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I personally hear a lisp or ssss now & then on my synergy sf-2's/center and had read a review about this. As a matter of fact I probally really wouldn't of noticed it untill I read about it. It's not all the time but it's there for sure. The sound is not harsh or overbearing it's just a slightly exagerated sss now an again. Sorry I am of no help. But this is just a slight sss everynow and then. Every speaker has a weekness and this is a minor one compared to what the pros are in this price catagory. For guitar tone to my ears there is absolutely nothing touching my sf-2's when it comes to accuracy at their price point, and tha'ts why I love them. Mine were purchased before best buy so I got a better deal than what their offering them for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 could be a bad speaker.... I suggest listening to it yourself... my RC-7 had a bad woofer....not exactly a lisp sound...but maybe sound would say that,,,more of a whispy crackle during voices talking.... turn speaker off...and push in on the cones...should be smooth....mine was rough and could feel the voice coil catching something...felt scratchy...if that is possible to describe.. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 "turn speaker off...and push in on the cones..." just be REALLY careful pushing on the R series cones! Possibly early reflections from the floor with the RC7? just guessing here. Lots of good hints. I've had RC7 and KLFC7 and never experienced extra sibilance. Like the idea that the computer fine tuning might be off or treble mis-adjusted. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Maybe I'm off base, but it sounds to me like your customer is describing sibilance (or a sound like it) and doesn't know the word for it. I tend to agree with the earlier posters that you're likely looking at a combination of room effects and a perception issue, especially if he isn't familiar with the Klipsch sound. For example, I think my Fortes on my wife's Onkyo gear sound too bright -- uncomfortably detailed. She thinks it's great. Maybe getting some absorption and diffusion into the room would help tone things down for him. Could it also just be the newness of the gear? Does he need a few hours of runtime for things to smooth out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Grooms Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 This is a new dedicated home theater installation and its a nice one. Complete with the JVC HD-ILA front projector and three rows of available seating. These are the 1st loudspeakers he has had in the room. I'm not sure what he will let me get away with as far as room treatments are concerned because there is a WAF in play. We already had to order a new Reference package in black to replace the cherry. I'm sure I'll be out there sometime this week to better evaluate this anomaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 ---------------- On 4/17/2005 9:50:25 PM Tom Grooms wrote: I received an email from this gentleman tonight that he is experiencing a lisp during movie dialog. his quote "As I have been listening to the speakers, I am having a problem that I haven’t been able to correct. During dialogue, I hear a lisping sound. When people are speaking, the S and TS sounds are very shrill, like a lisp." ---------------- There is a Faith Hill DVD that I love called "When the lights go down." I must have listened to it 20 times when I asked my wife what she thought of the DVD. Her response was "I don't like the way she pronounces her "S's." I scoffed thinking, there's nothing wrong with how Faith pronounces "S's." Ever since that time when I watch the DVD, I zero in on that particular thing (for a second, then I forget about it and enjoy the video;-), and she's right--It almost sounds like Faith is over-enunciating the "S's." It doesn't sound abnormal as much as it sounds hyper-clear. I own 2 RC-7's. I will check it out later and post If I notice a difference in the 2 center speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 ---------------- On 4/18/2005 12:09:30 AM michael hurd wrote: ... Another possibility is the mastering of the source material, that is a little " hot " on the top end, causing sibilance. Get him to try a different source or dvd, to see if the problem is source related. ---------------- I agree with michaels quote above being the main culprit. There may also be room issues that minn_male42 and jacksonbart observed. I have just tried the Faith Hill DVD that I mentioned, on both of my RC-7's. In my bedroom (where my wife made the initial comment) the "exaggerated S" is apparent. In this room the RC-7 sits on top of a cabinet within 2 feet of the ceiling. In my main HT where I have a high A-frame ceiling, the RC-7 sits on top of my TV. I can hear the "S," but no where near as distracting as in my bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Grooms Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Well that makes sense. I just got an email from my client and he has not yet got the stand built for his center channel. Its sitting on the floor angled toward the listening position. I'm guessing that and a couple of db off the top end should get us what we're after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Tom, maybe some extra absorbtion on the floor where the HF horn would have it's first reflection? Even if it's pointed up at a pretty sharp angle, there will be some early reflection that could be blurring the vocal range. Is floor carpet or hardwoods? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 I have noticed that MCACC accentuates the sibilences produced by the RC-7. It is by far the worst with regular live TV such as CNBC or CNN. Movies have a much lower problem level on my RC-7. Poor sound engineering is the primary culprit IMO, as evidenced on live TV braodcasts. The alternative is to turn MCACC off or to dial down the trebble frequencies with manual MCACC settings. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.