Lag Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Just curious whether anybody in this forum has had the opportunity to compare the RF-7's against the KLF-30's. I've got a pair of KLF-30's and the store I originally purchased from has an upgrade program where they'll give me the full original purchase price of my speakers against a new pair for the life of the product - thus I've been considering an upgrade (if it truly is one)... -Mike Electronics ----------- Display: NEC LT150 Projector Screen: Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Screen (Matte White) DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05 Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX Equalization: AudioControl C-101 Series III (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2 (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3 (center/sides) Amplifiers: Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2 (rear) Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center Speakers -------- Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish) Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish) Side: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Rear: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss) Interconnects ------------- DVD to DC-2: Generic Toslink DC-2 to EQ: AudioQuest Coral EQ to RB-991: AudioQuest Coral DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Topaz (sides) DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Diamondback (center) DC-2 to GFA-5500: AudioQuest Turquoise (19m of it) DC-2 to Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback Speaker Cables -------------- Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo) Center: Monster Cable Z3 Side: AudioQuest Type 4+ Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Mike, I did a minor side-by-side in the local Sound Advice just last weekend. I was playing the Diana Krall "Love Scenes" DVD in DTS on a Denon 4800 (that's what I have at home). My main goal was to see how both of these speakers sounded in relation to my CF-2's. Bear in mind I am not a music critic but here goes anyway. The KLF-30's seemed a bit brighter and much more in-your-face (slam factor) than the RF-7's. The RF-7's were warmer and had a tighter bass than the 30's. Soundstage and imaging went to the RF-7's as well. Both of them had Diana's voice right in the middle as if she was coming out of the wall. I think for 2-channel music, I would prefer the RF-7's over the 30's. For HT it would be a tossup. As for my speakers, I think they are a happy medium between the two. Again, this is just MHO. Mike ------------------ Family Room ----------- Hitachi 43UWX10B HDTV (16:9) Denon AVR-4800 Panasonic DVD-RP91K (Progressive Scan & DVD-Audio) Dual CS-5000 Turntable w/Shure V15V-MR DBX 3bx Series III Range Expander Klipsch Epic CF-2's (mains) Klipsch KLF-C7 (center) Klipsch RS-3's (surrounds) SVS 20-39CS Sub w/Samson S700 Amp Monster HTS-3500 Line Conditioner Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box Monster M-500 Component Video cables Monster Datalink 100 Digital Coaxial cables Radio Shack Gold Series for all other audio interconnects Bedroom ------- Mitsubishi 31" TV Yamaha M-4 Amp Yamaha C-4 Preamp Yamaha T-7 Tuner Teac DVD Player Dual CS-721 Turntable w/B&O MMC2 Looking for a pair of Heresy's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lag Posted August 31, 2001 Author Share Posted August 31, 2001 I'll definitely have to give them a listen then. One of my complaints w/ my KLF-30's has essentially been that they're -slightly- over-bright sounding and the imaging is not the best (which is not to say I'm not happy - quite the contrary, I love them - but that doesn't mean they can't be improved upon). As far as slam goes, are you talking about bottom-end oomph or upper-bass/lower-mid punch? I like the punchiness of the KLF-30's, and wouldn't want to lose that, but if I lost a little slam in the bottom-end I wouldn't be too upset as my Velodyne sub can pick up the slack if need be. -Mike ------------------ Electronics ----------- Display: NEC LT150 Projector Screen: Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Screen (Matte White) DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05 Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX Equalization: AudioControl C-101 Series III (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2 (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3 (center/sides) Amplifiers: Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2 (rear) Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center Speakers -------- Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish) Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish) Side: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Rear: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss) Interconnects ------------- DVD to DC-2: Generic Toslink DC-2 to EQ: AudioQuest Coral EQ to RB-991: AudioQuest Coral DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Topaz (sides) DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Diamondback (center) DC-2 to GFA-5500: AudioQuest Turquoise (19m of it) DC-2 to Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback Speaker Cables -------------- Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo) Center: Monster Cable Z3 Side: AudioQuest Type 4+ Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Mike, I am referring to the upper-bass/lower-mid punch. The 30's just jump right out at ya! I don't think you can go wrong with either speaker but in my opinion, I felt the RF-7 was the better sounding speaker for 2-channel music. I like jazz and female folk rock, and for me, felt the RF-7 sounded better when listening to that kind of music. Look up the dealer locator on this board and find a dealer in your area, and go listen to some. Hopefully, they will have both there so you can do a comparison... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted September 3, 2001 Share Posted September 3, 2001 I have a pair of 30's and found them a little overly bright on occasion but then I picked up a Nakamichi CDP 2A CD player at a second hand store and they now sound much smoother. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 I was lucky enough to check out Ray's (htxpert) awesome demo room. I have KLF-30's now, which I love, and have really been suffering thinking about whether I should sell 'em and get the RF-7s. Will I miss the KLF-30s maximum slam and emotion, or be blown away by the RF-7s? Ray had both set up. In all fairness, the amps we used were different, but everything else was the same. I brought a CD-R with 16 songs (Rock, Bluegrass, Opera, Classical, Pop, Salsa, Ballads) that I was really familiar with on my KLF-30s. We listened to them once on the RF-7s, then again on his KLF-30s, both in direct mode, no additional speakers or subwoofer. Both were great. Both also had a little problem with "s"s on female voices (which Ray had all sorts of suggestions for how to beat). However, the RF-7s had significantly better detail, deeper soundstage, tighter bass, and were smoother. Had almost as much slam and emotion as the KLF-30s (and much much more than the RF-3s). I loved them. To my ears, the differences stood out. Now, I also love the KLF-30s - a lot. These are two great sets of speakers, but to my ears, I ended up liking the RF-7s even more. The RF-7s are also a little smaller than the KLF-30s (though they're heavier), although to tell you the truth, I like the jabba-like, totem pole size of the KLF-30s. And the RS-7s! I love my KSP-S6s and really had a hard time even thinking of replacing them. But hearing the RS-7s today, I couldn't believe I was listening to surround speakers and not full size boxes. Blew me away. So now I have to find new owners for my mint Legend system. I'm going to try to sell my mahogany KLF-30s in Southern California, cause shipping would be a nightmare on these. Let me know if any of you are interested in my KLF-C7 center in black or KSP-S6s in white (it really hurts to even talk about selling these!) All are in great shape. I've put an ad in a local paper, but wanted to give you guys a chance to make an offer first if you're interested. thanks George PS: Ray, you're the greatest. I've never gotten a demo like that. You do Klipsch proud. It made what might have been a really hard decision relatively easy (of course, if I could I would keep the legends AND get the RF-7s - but my NEW policy is if I want a new Klipsch speaker, I have to get rid of one first!) Thanks, Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 George, That's how I felt as well. Nothing against the 30's (wish I had a pair), I just felt the RF-7's were more to my liking... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Hi All George, it was a pleasure having you at our showroom. You have described the differences of these two speakers to a tee. Just to give you a run down on the associated equipment that was used the New Reference series was being driven by an Onkyo TXDS 989,JVC 723 DVD player, Sherwood NewCastle CD player and XLO ER Series wire and cable. The KLF-30's were being driven with a Classe' Preamp and an Integra Amplifier,Sony ES CD Player,Music Fidelity DAC and XLO Ultra wire and cables. I think if the RF-7's were mated to the Classe and Integra you would have heard even more of a difference but they are too heavy to lug around Lag,I noted that you are using the NEC LT-150 projector. George saw a Tweeked LT150 on a Stewart 110" Diagonal 16:9 screen yesterday. This is truly a "bang" for the $$ projector and if set up correctly can give you $10,000 results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Ray, The tweaked NEC LT-150 was pretty amazing. Altogether, that was a fantastic system you demoed. I can't get it out of my mind. As soon as my current living room speakers sell, the big question will be cherry, black or maple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lag Posted September 7, 2001 Author Share Posted September 7, 2001 Ray, Yah, I know it's not related to Klipsch speakers, but the LT-150 is an incredible piece for the money. I'd highly recommend it to anybody who wants to get into front projection w/o having to spend a bundle. There's a little bit of light leakage out of the projector that spills dim light outside the picture area, but it's not too bad, and with a little creative masking would be totally unnoticable. The black level and contrast are quite good, just about on par with the Runco VX-1c and the Runco is $10K more expensive (admittadly, the Runco is -slightly- better and has somewhat better conformity, but not for 3-1/2 to 4 times the price). Color accuracy is quite good with very little of the green cast that many multimedia DLPs have (many DLP makers use a slightly orange color filter instead of a real red filter on the wheel - it increases light output but then makes it impossible to produce a true red and gives everything a greenish hue). The NEC even gives you the capabiltiy of adjusting the brightness and contrast of each individual color (something for tweakers to have a field day with). The overall brightness is not good enough to run it w/ much ambient light, but then most more expensive "home theater" projectors are no brighter (in fact, many are not even as bright). Picture quality is quite good, even using the built in scaler, though I'd still recommend an external scaler, or atleast a progressive scan DVD player (mine is not, though the DV-05 has one of the best pictures ever as far as I'm concerned). I had to opt for the Da-Lite Model B instead of a Stewart predominately for monetary reasons (I needed a screen that would pull down or lower, could be ceiling mounted without wrecking the ceiling and with minimal work, and wouldn't cost me a fortune). I haven't had the opportunity to try different materials, but I've been happy w/ the 1.1 dB gain provided by the matte white screen, though for larger pictures than mine (I've got an 87" diagonal) I might recommend something slightly brighter, perhaps a 1.3 dB or so gain, but certainly no more - if light levels are controllable you're far better off w/ the lower gain screen, and I may look at something like the Stewart Greyhawk sometime (to improve my black level). Admittadly, that's a personal preference - I've seen the LT-150 on a 2.2 dB gain screen and while there was some hot-spotting, the image practically seemed like it wanted to jump off the screen at you. Anyways, back to the original topic - I've loved my KLF-30's for home theater. The dynamics are excellent and they've got a crispness that gives movies a real snap. However, I have to admit they're not the most musical. Had I been planning only on music at the time of my purchase I might have purchased a pair of Paradigm Studio Reference 100's instead - a far more musical pair of speakers, though nowhere near as dynamic - but for home theater I think the Klipsch's can't be topped. Sounds like the RF-7's may give me the best of both worlds though - I'll definitely have to give them a listen. -Mike ------------------ Electronics ----------- Display: NEC LT150 Projector w/ Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Scrn DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05 Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX Equalization (front): AudioControl C-101 Series III Amplifiers (front): Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2 Amplifiers (center/sides): Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3 Amplifiers (read): Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2 Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center Speakers -------- Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish) Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish) Side/Rear: (4x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss) Interconnects ------------- DVD to DC-2: generic Toslink Front: AudioQuest Coral Sides: AudioQuest Topaz Center/Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback Rear: AudioQuest Turquoise Speaker Cables -------------- Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo) Center: Monster Cable Z3 Side: AudioQuest Type 4+ Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire) s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Lag, I would not recommend a GreyHawk screen with this projector or any other lower ANSI Lumen projector I have installed them with the Yamaha DPX-1 at the customers request and it did not look as good as with a white screen.The Black levels looked good but the trade off was lack of punch in the image and not worth it IMOHO The GreyHawk has a gain of about .96-.98 you need a real light cannon to overcome this low gain and Advertised ANSI lumen specs are much higher than the acuall spec.If you want to improve Contrast ratio Try Black felt,Black I/O carpet or paint the wall behind your screen Flat black.To relize the benefit from this take a flash light and hold it a couple of inches away from the screen,Do you see any light penetrating the screen on the back side?If you do the black surface will prevent the bounce back to your screen and improve CR Ratio.The improvement is small but every little thing helps. Also make sure if you go to a progressive signal you turn off the White Segment this will help with reducing Artifacting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.H Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Hello.. I have had the KLF-30 at home for a test some time ago.. I didnt bought them becuase i think it has a bit to much bass (had some problems with the bassreflex port and placing them right).. And the RF-3 had a more "fresh" sound,so i kept the RF-3.. But i liked the midhorn.. The vocals sounded much better then the RF-3.. Only the RF-7 (and rf-5) dont have that midhorn anymore.. Dont u miss it?? I mean..does the midpart still sound as KLF-30?? It had a very natural and lifelike sound .. So i was a bit dissapointed when i found out that it whas gone on the RF-7.. M.H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Hi You should or will not be unhappy with the MidRange in the RF-7 this is one of the areas that has improved.The KLF-30 sounds Harsh and shallow in comparison almost like they are screaming at you .Mind you I love the KLF 30 but after listening to the RF-7 I just love them a little less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 KLF30 VS RF7 All I can say is so far the RF-5(not up to the RF7's)sound very good,no agresstive ear bleeding harshness. Not to say the KLF30's are harsh,they expose bad amps and front end.When used with high quality solid state or tubes the KLF30 has strong points the currsnt RF series lacks. The horn loaded midrange and tweeter projects sound and sound a bit better to my ears.I like my music to sound real,real big.And the KLF30's can give you a huge sound with just a few watts.If a quality amp is used with the KLF30 the bass will improve alot,better definition and the "harshness" will go away. Just like I said before the KLF30's were too large for my room.And with all the gear in place I would have to sit against the back wall to get amy stereo image. If I had a large room I would go for the KLF30,20 combo.With the ATI2505 the dynamics would be killer. I like what I hear from the RF5's,very smooth!A real surprise from Klipsch.Many audiophiles who complained should now praise Klipsch.I prefer overall the RF5 to even the KLF30 on most types of music.For heavy metal and Metallica the KLF30 has no equal.It will knock the dentition out and ask for more. For me the RF series(RF5 up)is a better overall choice.I still think Klipsch should have kept the horn loaded midrange. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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