1080p input VS 1080i ??

[Born2RockU]

I am clueless.

Can anyone tell me the difference between 1080p input VS. 1080i , please ?

I am going to by a DLP this years end and need to start researching

the cold hard facts.

Any great suggestions on which DLP to invest in,

and what I should hold out for in the near future?

[Duffinator]

One's interlaced and the other's progressive scan. But you probably knew that. The big deal is whether or not the set can accept a 1080P input. This allows the source device (HD or BD DVD player for example) to do the deinterlacing instead of the TV. In general, there maybe better deinterlacers outside the TV. All deinterlacers are not created equal and can make a big difference on how well the picture is displayed. The new 1080i DLP chips and sets coming out soon do not look like they will accept a 1080P input. I don't believe any LCD or Plasma sets currently on the market will accept a 1080P input but I believe there are a few high end projectors that will. I read the reason for this is the manufacturers state there are no 1080P sources as of yet. Let's hope their attitude changes soon and all sets have the ability to accept a 1080P input.

I like the Mitsubishi DLP sets the best and they could be the first to market with the new 1080i native resolution TV's. They have been making DLP sets as long or longer than anybody.

[dragonfyr]

480i - 480 interlaced; form of standard-definition digital television(SDTV) that approximates the quality of analog television but not considered high-definition television (HDTV). Even though the native resolution of DVDs is 480p, they are viewed at 480i on an NTSC analog television.

480p - 480 progressive; form of standard-definition digital television comparable to VGA computer displays but not considered high-definition television (HDTV), though 480p is discernibly cleaner and slightly sharper than analog television. The native resolution of DVD is 480p, but that resolution can be seen only if a DVD player outputs a progressive scan signal and the DTV has progressive-scan or component-video inputs; it is also known as Enhancved Definition TV, EDTV.

720p - 720 progressive. One of two currently used formats designated as high-definition television in the ATSC DTV standard, this technology comprises 720 vertical pixels and 1,280 horizontal pixels. The p stands for progressive, as opposed to interlaced, scanning, which is used in the other accepted HDTV standard, known as 1080i. Contrary to myth, 720p is not inferior to 1080i; 720p has fewer lines but also has the advantages of progressive scanning and a constant vertical resolution of 720 lines, making it better able to handle motion.

1080i - 1080 interlaced; one of two formats designated as high-definition television in the ATSC DTV standard, with 1,080 vertical pixels by 1,920 horizontal pixels. The i stands for interlaced, as opposed to progressive scanning, used in the second HDTV standard, 720p. Contrary to myth, 1080i is not superior to 720p; 1080i has more scanning lines but also suffers the disadvantages of interlaced scanning.

1080p - As yet undefined progrerssive scan variant of 1080i

16:9 - Sometimes expressed as 16x9 or 16 by 9 (known as 1.78:1 in the film world); the standard DTV wide screen television screen size, or aspect ratio--16 arbitrary units wide by 9 arbitrary units high, as compared to a standard TV aspect ratio of 4:3. The phrase describes the shape of a TV set or program, not an actual inch measurement.

2:3 pull-down detection - Also (and less accurately) called 3:2 pull-down; digital technology developed by Faroudja to accurately convert and display content originally on celluloid film, which runs at 24 frames per second (fps) compared to the 30fps rate of television. It is found in many DVD players and DTVs.

4:3 - Standard "square" NTSC TV screen-size aspect ration of 4 arbitrary units wide by 3 arbitrary units high; often expressed as 4x3 or 4 by 3. It was originally known as the Academy Ratio (as in Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the film industry organization that awards the Oscars) prior to 1954 and the introduction of wide-screen aspect-ratio film formats; also known in the film world as 1.33:1.

5C DTCP - 5 company Digital Transmission Content Protection. An HDTV copy-protection encryption method for devices connected via IEEE1394/Firewire, this allows one of three copy states: copy always (all ATSC broadcast and "in the clear" QAM cable broadcasts); copy once (premium cable); and, copy never (pay per view, video-on-demand). Bidirectional system requires 5C chips in every device in an A/V system (in other words, a converter, a TV, and so on); the TV "requests" acknowledgment before allowing the signal to be viewed or recorded. Proposed and sponsored by Hitachi, Intel, Matsusheeta (you were protected here!!!) (Panasonic), Sony, and Toshiba--the five companies.

(from HDTV World)

Stations are just starting to broadcast in HDTV, with stations such as FOX broadcasting only 480p. Only 480p,1080i and 720p have been defined and accepted. If you are looking for a 'state of the art' DVD player, you will be quite satisfied with a 720p or 1080i unit for the forseeable future. 1080p is not yet defined specification, and as a result, I would not anticpate any applied use of 1080p for 'a while' - several years at LEAST! Additionally, my understanding is that Blu-Ray currrently only supports 1080i.

Despite that fact, some video camera companies are beginning to bring to market 1080p video cameras. (much the like the 'pre-N' (standard) MIMO wireless routers!)

Even if such equipment does come to market, probably the biggest issue standing between 1080p and commercial service reality is transport bandwidth. By combining the higher resolution of 1080 with the greater refresh rate of progressive, 1080p is even more data-dense and could soak up even greater bandwidth.

That starts with the video produced from 1080p cameras. Currently, 720p and 1080i cameras output video at about 1.5 Gigabits per second, but 1080p would roughly double that to 3 Gbps. To convert that into a standard 19.4 Megabit per second channel for transmission across a cable network, theres a whole set of other technologies that have got to be accomplished in between there.

While video channel bandwidth does depend on the compression scheme used, 1080p would likely require greater compression or greater bandwidth. And even MPEG4 or WM9 does not seem to be sufficient. Starz! and other networks, with the exception of HDNet (who thinks it would be "great") are not anticipating broadcasting in the format in a foreseeable future.

Besides, I would be interested if anyone can even show me a TV that displays all the pixels in 1080i! I haven't found one for under $12,999. (not that I would EVER dream of spending that much on a TV!!!!!But it does show that the search becomes a rarified one!)

This is in addition to another concern. While so many focus on HDTV and run to buy very expensive TVs, most do not display HDTV!!!! 852x480 resolution is Enhanced-definition TV and they are NOT HDTV and cannot natively display HDTV signals (although I was shown several at different stores and after asking, I was assured (incorrectly!) that they WERE! And 1024x768 & 1024x1024 resolution diplays an incomplete HDTV picture. (The picture is scaled down to the set's native resolution) 1280 x 768 and 1366 x768 can display 720p HD signals. And 1920 x 1080 resolution is required to display 1080p, if you can find a programming source.

So, personally, I think worrying about the 1080i or 1080p specs is premature. Even if you can find a TV that will support them, you won't find programming sources that will benefit from this.

(Tech info from Communications Engineering & Design)

[Born2RockU]

Duffinator + Dragonfyr :

Thank You for your inputs.

It definitely cleared all that 'fog' in my head.

Do you guys own HDTV DLP's ?

...if so, what are you using w/ those DLP's

as far as HDTV converter's and/ or dvd players are concerned ?

THANK YOU.

[Duffinator]

I have a Toshiba 56H80 HD RPTV with no DVI/HDMI input. I'm waiting for 3 chip DLP or LCD that accepts 1080P before I upgrade to a new set. But if I had to buy a set today I'd would be the 62" Mitsubishi with the antiglare screen and the Samsung would be a VERY close second. But if LCD or Plasma 60" sets get to a reasonable price by the time I upgrade I will consider them as well. The 1080i native resolution sets that don't accept 1080P inputs are quite annoying. What are they thinking?

[KungFuNat]

1080i is something of a hack.. basically there is no "native" 1080i resolution display.. only 1080p.. samsung is comming out with 1080p sets in june.. but they do not accept a 1080p display resolution, they only de-interlace 1080i.. the only source i know of that will support 1080p output is the playstation3, which wont be out for a year.. im pretty sure 1080p will be a part of the HD-DVD spec, but HD-DVD will fail, nobody gives a crap about the extra resolution, DVDs will reign supreme for the next few years at least.

as far as TV sets, i would go with a samsung 720p model untill they come out with "true" 3-chip DLP units in a year or two.. samsung and Texas Instruments(the creators of DLP) are partners on the launch of any new DLP chips.. ive seen the samsung and mitsubishi sets right next to each other, and basically they are so close, its up to the individual. my suggestion is to go look at them both in a store and go with what you like better. the difference for me was the anti-glare screen on the samsung.. it made the screen a little more easy on the eyes, but from what i understand, you can get an anti-glare kit for the mitsubishi units..

to sum it up, the 1080p sets are not ready for prime-time just yet.. i would pick up a 720p set for now and perhaps upgrade in a year or two. im going to be picking up one of the new samsung 720p sets within a few weeks.

[Born2RockU]

NatGun:

Which Samsung DLP 720p are you getting ??

[KungFuNat]

i believe the model is the HLR6167W.. 720p, new HD4 chip(better contrast ratio and smoothness of picture), 61inches baby!

[Born2RockU]

What does this Samsung 720p model HLR6167W list at ??

[KungFuNat]

think it lists at $3799, but can be found for $3300. just note that this is the 61 incher, and is the most expensive of this model line... i think the 50" set can be found for $2400

[toddvj]

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On 5/18/2005 6:34:47 PM NatGun wrote:

.. the only source i know of that will support 1080p output is the playstation3, which wont be out for a year..

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Hey, guess what...there IS another source of 1080p that's out RIGHT NOW!!! I'll give you a hint...you're sitting at it right now.

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On 5/18/2005 6:34:47 PM NatGun wrote:

im pretty sure 1080p will be a part of the HD-DVD spec, but HD-DVD will fail, nobody gives a crap about the extra resolution, DVDs will reign supreme for the next few years at least.

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I don't know, I kinda give a crap about it. I agree, it will not take off as fast as DVD did, but to say that it will fail...If you can make that kind of prediction, you must be a rich man. I guess the large companies investing in this new technology are just in it for fun, they must KNOW it will fail, because NatGun says so.

[KungFuNat]

just look at SACD and DVD-A...

both failed.. why? because nobody gives a crap.. and thats trying to replace a 20 year old standard... people arent ready to buy a new DVD player, and wont be for a number of years. nor are people going to shell out for a 1080p display when they have just bought a new 720p set, or they dont care about HDTV.. dvd is still on the upswing, and will be the dominant video standard for the forseeable future, im guessing 5 to 10 years. sacd and dvd-a have been out for a coupple years now. do you know anyone personally that has a SACD or DVD-A player? i dont.

by the time people are ready to abandon their DVD players, who knows what the next format will be..

[SCOOTERDOG]

I have a dedicated DVD Audio Player and it is also a pretty darn good DVD Video player as well. I run an Infocus SP4805 FP that uses the TI DLP darkchipII and a 6 segment color wheel. It is not a hig end projector but my HD signal is absolutly incredible. I let the projector upconvert the signal for DVD movies and the results are wonderful, although not as sweet as my HD signal. Besides, when you have a 9 foot screen all you can do is go wow.

scooter

[bytor33]

Do dvds take advantage of 1080p or would 780p be just as good? I don't watch much tv so the extra detail in hd channels with 1080p would not be that big of deal to me but if it really helps dvd clarity I'd be all for it. Basically I don't want to hold out a long time until good, affordable 1080p tv's come out if a 780p one would serve me just fine.

[dragonfyr]

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On 5/19/2005 5:07:52 AM bytor33 wrote:

Do dvds take advantage of 1080p or would 780p be just as good? I don't watch much tv so the extra detail in hd channels with 1080p would not be that big of deal to me but if it really helps dvd clarity I'd be all for it. Basically I don't want to hold out a long time until good, affordable 1080p tv's come out if a 780p one would serve me just fine. ----------------

1080p isn't even an agreed upon standard yet.

With all due respect, we are worrying about the equivalent of what fuel we will fuel our cars with AFTER we get hydrogen power down!

And I am sure a few will wish to argue this, but 1080i is essentially 540p, as the interlaced image is simply utilizing 2 scans to cover the same screen area while the persistence of the image to your eye makes it appear as if it is one.

(For anyone not familiar with this, you might review the basics of interlaced images:

The number of horizontal lines of information a video display can paint onto a screen in one second given in hertz (Hz - cycles per second).

The horizontal scan rate of analog NTSC video is 15,750 Hz meaning that a video display paints 15,750 horizontal lines each second. By dividing this figure by the refresh rate (the vertical scan rate), the number of screens a video display can paint in one second, we can find the maximum number of horizontal lines a video display can produce (its vertical resolution). The standard refresh rate for video is 60 Hz (60 screens created per second). By this formula, a graphics projector with a horizontal scan rate of 63,000 Hz can produce up to 1,050 horizontal lines or a vertical resolution of 1,050. A data grade projector (31,500 Hz horizontal scan rate) can furnish 525 horizontal lines and a video projector or traditional television display (15,750 Hz horizontal scan rate) can furnish 262.5 horizontal lines.

The interlaced video format used by the analog NTSC television standard specifies that two fields create a full frame so that there are 30 frames per second. Each field thus contains 262.5 lines (each line spaced apart by one blank line; all the odd lines are drawn and then all the even lines are drawn in the next field to create a complete frame). When the two fields are combined, the NTSC standard allows for 525 horizontal lines of resolution (although only DVD approaches using those 525 lines - with laserdisc using only 425, cable television around 300 and VHS tape just over 200). It is due to the eyes' persistence that the scanned lines appear to be one image to the eye.

Currently the highest format of digital HDTV is interlaced featuring 1,080 horizontal lines. Thus every one sixtieth of a second, a field of 540 lines is created with two fields combining for a total of 1,080 lines in a frame.

See above for the other resolutions available.

While some video camera companies are talking of offering 1080p capable cameras, the standard has not yet been approved. Broadcasters are not even considering it! And Blu-Ray does not even support it.

So I would say, that at this point in time, its a moot point! Before we worry about the DVD players, no one has committed to producing media in the as yet approved standard, and there aren't any TVs that can play it back!

And again, can ANYONE show me a shipping 1080p TV for less then $13,000?(As if I would spend even a fraction of that for a TV!)

Again, my point here, is that you have plenty of time before worrying about this standard!