Power Conditioners, Hype?

[Tom Adams]

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On 5/26/2005 8:35:05 AM vanderrg wrote:

I have a 3300 joule surge protector ($25 at Costco) but you guys have got me thinking about getting a power conditioner...a quick question though-

I went to Furman's website and it looks like all of their products are designed to be rack-mounted...I have my stuff on regular shelves...anyone know of one of these products they can recommend that is designed to sit on a regular shelf without looking ridiculous?

thanks!

BV

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While I use and can endorse Furman, you may also want to check out the following from TrippLite:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2832

One of the forum members here uses one in his HT and is quite pleased with it.

As for getting away from the rack mount look, Furman does make a line for home audio. It's listed under the "Consumer Electronics" tab on their website. Nice looking stuff with all the bells & whistles of their pro stuff plus more. However, it comes with a (hefty) price. I looked into their Reference Series, but just couldn't justify the price.

Oh....and if you do a search here you'll find a couple of lengthy threads on this subject.

Good luck finding what works best for you.

Tom

[arthurs]

Not to be overly opportunistic, but I have a very nice Panamax 5300 I'd be willing to make anyone interested a good deal on. It's 6 months old. Drop me an e-mail.

[Griffinator]

Of course, the Panamax, like Monster, are MOV-based surge protectors, which means they have an upper limit on how much they'll take in cumulative surges over their product lives before they die...

[nicholtl]

Meaning what? They'll die out eventually?

[Griffinator]

It means that MOV-based surge suppressors aren't going to last as long as series-mode.

[dave97]

For what it's worth, I bought a Richard Gray 600S for my system; the overall soundstage improved noticably, and there was also a noticable improvement in the picture quality of my 50" plasma TV.

[PrestonTom]

Regarding the original question: Yes, it pretty much is hype. Certainly do something regarding protecting the circuit. But that is not a big dollar item.

If you want to improve the sound of your system, then spend an afternoon rearranging furniture, adjusting drapes, adding an area rug (or removing one), extra padding under a carpet, opening/closing doors to adjacent rooms, toeing in/out speakers, re-locating your listening chair etc.

These will provide noticeable changes, Serioulsy the biggest probelm will be in determing which changes are actually improvements in sound rather that just a change in the sound.

-Tom

[neo33]

"It means that MOV-based surge suppressors aren't going to last as long as series-mode."

I have Panamax on my McIntosh Home Theatre system for 10 years now and it is still going strong!

[dragonfyr]

Not to get into the debate over companies, but blown MOV's are very inexpensive and easily changed, so the issue of replacing an MOV that has sacrificed itself to protect the gear during a surge is akin to changing out a fuse. The primary difference is that MOVs are normally soldered where fuses may (but not always) are socketed. But as I have mentioned fuses, I would certainly rely on a properly rated MOV for surge protection over any variety of fuse.

But, for the folks who are not familiar with the precise functionality that power conditioning affords, surge protection, while critical, is not to be confused with power conditioning.

[BlueMonk]

I have the dreaded Monster 2600 and I cannot say that I noticed a difference in sound quality. But it greatly improved the picture on my TV.

[colterphoto1]

Go to any bar, check out the bands PA rig, you'll find a power conditioner EVERY TIME! Furman is very popular, but I hear good things about Panamax. The usual voodoo hex against Monster still applies.

Yes, get one, but not too expensive.

Michael

ps thanks Dragon, nice concise posts, appreciated.

[Big Ears]

Thanks for the skinny on power guys. I have decided against the Monster. Instead, I upgraded from the RC-35 to the RC-7 with the money I saved. (thanks Mr. McGoo) I pick up everything today, so I am watching the clock already. I fugure I can get by for a while without one, we don't get many lightning storms in the desert.

A few posts back, one of you were saying that Monster didn't have good business practices. Anyone care to fill me in or point me in the right direction? I'd like to have some ammunition to throw at the salesman today.

[MrMcGoo]

Enjoy the RC-7, you will not be disappointed!!!

Bill

[colterphoto1]

You could probably do SEARCH on Monster here on Forum. In a nutshell, they went crazy and started sending threating letters to any company with the word 'monster' in it's name or products. Wanted a cut of their profits or would sue for copyright infringement. I suppose they think they own the word MONSTER. Just brutal the way they've been to other companies. All the while making totally unscientific claims about their many products.

Michael

[DrWho]

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On 5/26/2005 6:58:39 AM meuge wrote:

Every studio I've been to, uses Furman products for their power. I think if their products didn't live up to the expectations, they would never have achieved that kind of success.

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Ditto that x 100

I always thought line conditioners were a bunch of crap until I got the chance to AB the difference. It's like the entire noise floor dropped through the whole planet and everything started sounding much much more liquid and smooth. Now I could never imgaine a "hi-fi" not having one considering the cost isn't that much (compared to the cost of some other pieces of equipment).

[dragonfyr]

In a nutshell, they went crazy and started sending threatening letters to any company with the word 'monster' in its name or products. Wanted a cut of their profits or would sue for copyright infringement. I suppose they think they own the word MONSTER.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

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{Note:This is being presented simply to try to balance the perennial rant that ignores the reality of the laws of this country, NOT because I like Monster's inflated marketing hype:}

Herein lays the fundamental problem.

There are two standards, and many who live in the realm of feelings have a great deal of difficulty in understanding the rule of law in this country.

As Monster did indeed trademark/copyright the name Monster, they do in the commercial and legal sense, own the exclusive rights to use the name Monster.

Now anyone else could have done so, but they, for whatever reason, did not.

And the law is very clear regarding copyright and trademark enforcement. A company must be aggressive in protecting the trademark, otherwise they lose it.

So the law does not say, you must only pursue protective redress against big nasty corporations that make quadrillions of dollars ripping others off. Rather it says that the copyright holder is OBLIGATED to aggressively pursue redress wherever it is discovered. So that means the law says that you do not have a choice about whom you complain! It says that you must use the same diligence in pursuing grandma when she labels her oatmeal cookies as Monster cookies, and the little handicapped kids who are trying to finance their life saving operation by selling Monster lemonade.

For you see, the law does not allow a distinction.

Now we could argue whether it was wise for Monster to have chosen to copyright such a common word. Or we could debate whether such a common word should be allowed to be copyrighted or any number of 'what if' scenarios. And I am sure the discussion would be a very productive (sic) one over many beers, but the issue is moot. Meaning, it doesnt matter as far as the existing law is concerned.

Monster has copyrighted the word, and if they want to retain the copyright, the law, not their 'greedy corporate board', says that they must aggressively defend it against any entity, even grandma and the little handicapped kid, who chose to use it.

So they too are the victims of their choice of copyright as it costs them lots of money to defend it, as well as the goodwill of folks that hold them accountable for laws not of their own making, to pursue lawsuits against other corporations as well and grandmothers and handicapped kids. I have a feeling that they are just as aware of the hit they will take against what, in the business world, is known as good will. And it costs them money. But they have NOT been given a choice.

So, if others want to complain about this, they are not only barking up the wrong tree in chasing Monster, they are also demonstrating a fundamental ignorance of the law as interpreted in the real world. They may complain and express their wishes regarding how they wish the world SHOULD be, but in the meantime, Monster and the rest of us live in the real world of ,what is, right now.

So, while I would agree that Monsters marketing hype takes precedence over physics, and their claims take basics and twist and distort them, thus allowing them to justify higher prices for their very exotic(sic) products. And unfortunately you have a buying public who, rather then inform themselves about the physics involved, are only too willing to believe whatever they read or are told by a 19 year old salesperson eager to make a sale.

So the bottom line is that it doesnt matter whether you, or I, or anyone else, likes the law or not! It is not Monsters fault that they are the victims of the law just as is grandma. They are just required to play by the rules.

And if you dont like the law, you know who you have to blame! Ultimately it is the rocket scientists in Washington whom we are all responsible for putting there! But it is simply easier to complain about Monster rather than doing what is necessary to change the law! So, if you want to complain to those responsible, dont complain to a salesperson, complain to Congress about the law THEY have created!

(By the way, many of the same folks who's feelings are offended by Monster obeying the law, feel that they can tell others what color type to use as well.)

So have fun, and live up to your responsibility to be an informed consumer and make good choices. Then you won't have to cry about being taken advantage of by big mean corporations.

[Big Ears]

I just read a bunch of posts from last year about Monster. Wow...I will be returning the $70 sub cable and go with something else. I also got 150ft of Monster 12 gauge speaker wire($.70 ft)to run the surrounds. I'm taking that back too. I decided to hang my RS-35's from the ceiling and use the wire that came with the house (12 gauge). I hung them up last night and I've got to tell ya, they look great. I'll post a pic when I get everything installed.

Right now I'm having trouble finding brackets that will support my center channel speaker shelf on my 57" Hitachi Ultravision (57S715). Home Depot has crap for hardware! Hitachi says they make a shelf, but I can't seem to find anyone at the stores here to get me one. They all say "it's not in our system, so that means we can't get it" That's great customer service! I sure miss the old days when the Mom and Pops were still out there and knew how to treat people.

[edwinr]

Surely the use of power conditioners is hype?

I thought most good quality amplifiers and receivers have all the necessary power supply components onboard.

[Amdek]

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On 5/27/2005 9:48:50 AM neo33 wrote:

"It means that MOV-based surge suppressors aren't going to last as long as series-mode."

I have Panamax on my McIntosh Home Theatre system for 10 years now and it is still going strong!

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And your MOV's could be blown and you would never know it. If you are lucky, you still might have some surge protection left.

[Griffinator]

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On 5/27/2005 6:57:33 PM edwinr wrote:

Surely the use of power conditioners is hype?

I thought most good quality amplifiers and receivers have all the necessary power supply components onboard.

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Ed - sorry, but there's a lot more to it than that. Every piece of equipment in your system is at the mercy of AC line noise, and all you need in the house is a flourescent lamp, a refrigerator, or heat pump in electrical proximity (read: the same circuit box) to poison the proverbial well. Never mind noise coming in off the grid, which is completely beyond your control.