Increasing bass on the Lascala's

[D-MAN]

I posted previously that you could cut the throat cavity opening wider. This will help somewhat, but I forgot to mention that due to the restricted size of the back chamber, the Fz of the driver will not go any lower unless you also add some insulation/absorbtion material in the back chamber to effectively increase its volume.

The wider cavity opening may give you a smoother response, though and the back chamber insulation will lower the overall resonance of the driver for lower bass.

That still leaves the horn itself, which as I stated previously is fixed at roughly 70Hz fc overall (there are 2 different expansion rates involved). Like I said, too, the waveforms CAN be "forced" to a degree, but you have to produce them first. The 2 above modifications will do this in as much as is possible without hacking up the cabinet (much).

DM

[pauln]

What would you think if the LaScalas could be totally recessed into the corners so that their front bin opening sides were flush and somewhat continuous with the side walls? This would require cutting into the walls of the corner - some alteration to the home (or new home design). Would the flare rate be close to right? How would the transition from speaker top to corner work above this arrangment (flush with speaker front face and maintained all the way to the ceiling, or recessed like a normal corner?)

[homemade]

You're dealing with a 70hz horn. You need a sub. You don't need to spend a large amt. of money if diy. Sticking it into a corner won't change the flare rate.

[D-MAN]

Virtually any speaker can benefit in the bass response by the products of corner placement. It will naturally re-enforce the bass response that you currently have, but it won't make it any lower in frequency.

DM

[DrWho]

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On 6/8/2005 5:45:45 PM pauln wrote:

What would you think if the LaScalas could be totally recessed into the corners so that their front bin opening sides were flush and somewhat continuous with the side walls? This would require cutting into the walls of the corner - some alteration to the home (or new home design). Would the flare rate be close to right? How would the transition from speaker top to corner work above this arrangment (flush with speaker front face and maintained all the way to the ceiling, or recessed like a normal corner?)

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Though I like this idea, wouldn't it make more sense to try and construct "false corners" for the lascala to try and extend the bass horn on it. I do understand though that the walls give you an "unlimited" length for the horn.

To be honest, I think I remember reading a thread somewhere about the lascala really being a larger horn cut short and that the mouth could be extended...or maybe I'm off me rocker again

[mustang1]

RSW-15 will do the trick. Place it in the corner, this should cure your need for low end.

[jpm]

rel q150 sub

[D-MAN]

The LS is a bifurcated 60Hz throat (12" exponential doubling length) combined with a 125Hz (5-1/2" area doubling length) hyperbolic horn (terminal section) with a 3" long non-expanding column in between. The combination of the two is reported by PWK as being an overall nominal 70Hz Fc for the horn (from the LaScala AES preprint).

The higher expansion rate in the terminal section allows for the horn to not be "foreshortened", that is, it effectively terminates in an effective impedance-match to the atmosphere. Therefore adding to the horn will only cause a mismatch at the horn mouth and cause reflections, and render the frequency response "peaky".

Due to the design, there is not much that one can do to lower the Fc of the horn, unless one expands and ports the back chamber. But again, that doesn't effect the output of the horn itself.

DM

[edwinr]

So what you're saying D-MAN, is that the best solution for a more extended La Scala bass, is to add a very high quality subwoofer.

[mark1101]

For me....I found corner placement helps alot. It made a big difference in my situation. But the Las still did not have the bottom end you hear in live concert venues. So I added 2 subs. Once fine tuned, that was it for me. I use a 60 Hz. crossover setting.

As we also know many pre/amp combinations can have a big effect as well. Once I went to the Peach preamp and VRD amps, now I can get excellent bottom end effortlessly.

[D-MAN]

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Edwinr said:

"So what you're saying D-MAN, is that the best solution for a more extended La Scala bass, is to add a very high quality subwoofer"

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I would say yes to that, with the caveat of the wider throat cavity opening (but read below). Bear in mind that the throat 60Hz Fc is going to be a limiting factor, though.

But my presumption is that a LF driver that could theoretically "power" past the horn Fc due the the very short length of the LS horn and can live happily in a small back chamber could do the trick.

Check out the B&C 15 PL100 which (according to my numbers) can deal with a BC as small as 1 cubic foot when horn loaded. Also, this would be most efficient with the 3" wide slot opening, which means tbis is one option that requires virtually no mods to the cabinet. Might work, the numbers look good.

DM

[SubCrave]

So the real question that everyone should be asking in this forum is why doesn't Klipsch create a sub specifically for the LaScallas line?  Obviously the entire world knows that they are truly missing the low end below 125Hz and by the time you hit 20Hz you are down by 20dB. How hard is this? The old way was to purchase the commercial version of the Jubilee but the space they took up was not practical for everyone. Currently I am looking at the Seismic Audio The Quad-18 - 4 x 18 Inch Subwoofer Cabinet 30Hz to 100Hz +/- 3dB.. but when my partner sees the beauty of the cabinet (even if inside is birch plywood) in its road worthy black rippled vinyl exterior sitting on our dark walnut floors and in between the La Scalla IIs I am sure that she will call the fashion police and have me thrown in jail.... hey maybe I can have them sent out and get them refinished for about $1k... still makes the package less than K-horns and infinitely more bass responsive... BUT WHY????? So many people have the same problem, like the old advertisement "where's the beef?" where is the bass? Common Klipsch do you really want us all to go out and purchase a sub from somebody else? Really?  This conversation is only about 30 years old now... so for the last 30 years customers are either deaf, don't care or... buying other company's subs and making it work somehow using bi-amps, powered subs etc. I want a sub that connects to my la scallas that doesn't require me to add more electronics.  They need to have the same efficiency (same dB per watt 108??). Volti has done this but at a price point that requires us to sell our first born and make regular sacrifices to the gods of recorded music. You bring quality, efficiency and most of all Experience!!!! to the table at a, yes high but yes manageable price tag... forget about re inventing the K-Horn and the La Scalla.... make a sub!  PLEASE!