JTA Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I recently bought a set of Epic CF-4s to replace my KG 5.5s in my bedroom setup. I have been playing around with the speakers trying to get the best sound out of them. I rope caulked the horns which definately seemed to tone them down a bit and I also repositioned the foam inside them (which seemed to be layed out differently in each speaker) to better cover the speakers walls. Where I had spaces open from the foam I used some sonic barrier I acquired from Parts Expresss. This seemed to increase bass extension slightly. In addition, because my seating position is slightly more elevated than a normal chair and the tweeters on the Epics are positioned lower than most Klipsch speakers, I purchased a set of adjustable carpet spikes and aimed the speakers up slightly. This appeared to improve their clarity a bit and definately made a notable increase in bass response. I have to say I am pretty impressed with the build quality of these speakers. The inside of the cabinet is reinforced along all of the corners with 1/2 x 1/2s and there is a large wood cross brace that runs behind tweeter horn from wall to wall to help sure up the cabinet. It appears the tops and sides are made out of plywood and the front and rear is very thick MDF. I have had a lot of Klipsch speakers apart and I'd have to say these are probably the most solid next to some of the larger hertiage speakers. The bass on these speakers is incredible and the imaging is quite impressive, however the midrange seems to be very subdued. I had hoped that by aiming the speakers more toward my listening position that this would improve, but it has not. Does anyone have any suggestions for improving this; or can it be improved? I believe someone mentioned upgrading the tweeters to JBL drivers. Is there anything else that can be done? The system that powers these speakers consists of a Denon 5803A being used as a pre/pro with a McIntosh MC207 being use for the amp. The DVD player is a Sony S7700 which is also serving duty as a CD player. Matched up with the CF-4s is a KV4 center channel and a pair of KSP-S6s. Within the next couple of weeks I will be replacing the Denon with a McIntosh MX119 and the Sony with the McIntosh MVP 861 to match up with the McIntosh/Klipsch Heritage setup I am working on in my basement for a dedicated home theater. I know this will greatly improve the sound, but I am unsure how much of an effect it will have on the subdued midrange sound of the Epics. I really like these speakers a lot, but have considered demo'ing a pair of RF7s in my home for comparison. I just do not see them being any real improvement over the Epics with their smaller horns, and I know they will not match up in the bass department. I don't really expect these speakers to produce the same midrange presence that my Cornwalls or KHorns do with their dedicated mid horns, but I was hoping for something a little more 'musical' then what the Epics are currently delivering. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 Anyone? Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Are you saying you filled the cabinet? Bad, bad, bad. You've changed the woofer(s)/cabinet/port alignment. You need to pull most of that stuff out -- you'll probably notice more midrange. The next step is to clean up the networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 No, there were areas inside the cabinet that did not have foam on the speaker walls and in general there did not appear to be any rational way that the foam was layed out. Infact, the foam placement was drastically different inside each speaker with one having several more foam sheets than the other. I noticed no difference in sound quality after evening out the foam other than improved low end bass. What can be done to the networks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 The networks are built using polyester capacitors which are not bad per se, but the speaker takes a fairly decent leap foward in cleanliness and transparency if the polyesters are replaced with quality polypropylenes. The network sits between the drivers and the gear, and my opinion is that there isn't any gear upgrade, regardless of money spent, that does as much to remove grain and low level hash out of the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 ON my Epic CF3's, there is one piece of foam that I can see which is placed against the back wall and it curves around the sides on the bottom half of the speakers. The bottom is bare wood. I placed my speakers on some 16"x16x 2" pavers on their spikes to raise the soudstage some. I definately don't find the midrange to be subdued on mine at all. They have a very powerful midrange to say the least. Also, I have never heard any of the heritage line to make any comparisons to their sound. I have read that it is not neccessary to rope caulk the horns when they are plastic, but those with more experience my speak on that. Maybe that deadened the sound for you somewhat. Best Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 A speaker that measures relatively flat from bottom to top "has midrange" regardless of the drivers employed. The sonic signature is different -- but it's still there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Dean, I have pulled the crossover boards a little while ago on my Epics to have a look around. Mine were were built in 94 and they still look brand new. Would you be able to explain to a total newb how to swap out the polyester caps for polypro ones? Which part # to get, where to get them, and the steps to swapping the old with the new. Bests Regards, Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 I would be curious also as to what area would be most improved from a crossover with those better parts. More clarity? Better dynamics? I put the front spikes on coins to angle the speakers up toward my listening level even further and that has definately helped some while making the upper frequencies more clear and focused. These speakers appear to be extremely sensative to room placement. Shiva what does the wiring look like inside your speakers? Mine looks 'like' Monster Cable in maybe a 16 gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Mine also look like monster wire. how is the bass compared to the Khorns and conrwalls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 The bass is much tighter and deeper on the CF-4s than the Cornwalls. Although, my Cornwalls are 30 years old and in need of a refresh. The Khorns just simply have more presence if that makes any sense. I would say the CF-4s definately go deeper though. They have subwoofer level bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 Well I have upgraded my Denon 5803 which was running as a pre/pro for my MC207 to a McIntosh MX119. I also upgraded my old Sony 7700 DVD player to the McIntosh MVP861. Very, very big difference. A significant amount more detail exists now. The midrange is more present and the bass is deeper and tigher. The speakers do still run a bit harsh though. I know some of it is the room, but perhaps a crossover upgrade can 'cool' them off a bit. No more japanese audio components for me. Just my TV, VCR and Playstation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 The crossover updates will make changes equivalent to your gear swaps, trust me. You will be astounded at the difference! Since you invested in all that nice new Mac gear the crossover updates will be like icing on the cake. I have done all my speakers and man what a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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