aab3rd Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 OK, I know this questions has been asked a lot lately but I have a twist. Would this work for rear surrounds? Current set up MAINS KLF-20s CENTER KLF-C7 REARS KSF-S5s I can buy a pair of KSP-S6s from a dealer for $375pr and am thinking of using them for sides and moving my KSF-S5s (one or both) to the rear surround run off of a Marantz monoblock with a Parasound 6.1 prosessor (still in box until I get this resolved). Parasound 1800 PRE Marantz MM9000 5ch AMP Pioneer 525 DVD Hitachi 55" ULTRAVISION ANY OPINIONS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_S Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 Hmmm. Are you sure the Parasound will process a 6.1 signal? I have one (AVC-1800) and unless I'm horribly mistaken it will only process 5.1 (DD & DTS) and it only has 5.1 outputs. Maybe I'm missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Rob_S Parasound makes a 6.1 expander for any 5.1 system. It is called CSE 6.1 Center Surround Expander. Check it out at Parasound.com. Like I said in my first post, until I decide about what speakers to use for rear surrounds i. e. using my S-5s in the rear with S-6s for sides or get a C-7 for rear surround and use my S-5s for sides or go ahead and buy some S-6s for sides as well and sell my S-5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Nothing like a good run on sentence! What I was trying to say is that until I decede what speakers to use I do not know how well the Parasound CSE 6.1 works. Another point of note is that I have in another room a pair of CF-1s (which I like as well or better than the Legends although they are hooked up to an old Pioneer Pro Logic reciever) which I could use for sides but not for rears because of the lack of room between the seating position and the back wall (approx 3 feet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 MHO and ears as well have convinced me that I have a more pleasurable listening experience by having matching rears for 5 channel music, as well as WDST speakers which will spread the sound around for HT listening so that the rear sound effects seems to come from everywhere. I suggest if possible, use direct radiating speakers that closely match your fronts in the rear for any 5 channel music listening, along with WDST speakers which will add the much needed ambiance for movie listening. I do understand that many are limited by room size, configuration or spousal preference. But if you have the option, try your set up with rears that match as closely in timbre with your fronts as possible, and also include a set of WDST speakers in the rear as well. Wes ------------------------------------------- Main System Setup NAD T 761 Receiver (Pre-outs to Outlaw) Outlaw 750 5 Channel Amp Klipsch Cornwalls (Front w/Outlaw) Klipsch Heresy's (Front w/NAD) Klipsch Academy (Center w/NAD) Klipsch Cornwall (V) II's (Rear w/Outlaw) Klipsch RS-3's (Rear w/NAD) SVS SV20-39CS SUB (NAD 2400THX Bridged) Klipsch KSW-12 (Sub) Klipsch RF-3's (NAD T 761 "B" Channel) Denon DVM-3700 DVD Sony CDP-CA80ES Sony MiniDisk Deck MDS-JE320 Mitsubishi Stereo VCR Mitsubishi 52" Wide Screen Sony Remote Commander RM-AV2100 Monster Cable HTS-3500 Audio/Video Power Conditioner Bedroom HT Setup Onkyo TX-DS484 Sony DVP-530D Sony Dual Cassette Deck Phillips Magnavox 27' Klipsch Quintets (Front, Center & Surrounds) Infinity SubWoofer 3rd System Setup - Listening Only Sony Prologic Receiver STR-D1015 Sony CassetteTC-K444esII DAK Stereo Power Controller Technics Turntable SL-D2 Klipsch Walnut Quartet's Klipsch Walnut KG2.2V Center This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-11-2001 at 03:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 ShapeShifter My main concern is HT (95%), so given that does your assessment stay the same for the direct radiating speaker for rear surround channel or will the S-5s work since they do have a forward firing radiator unlike the S-6s. Any other opinions on this subject will be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 aab3rd, Not quite, based on your preference for HT. But for a price of $375.00 pr, I would definitely get the KSP-S6's. You could then set up the both the KSF-S5's & KSP-S6's in the rear and rear side configurations to determine which placement gives the best listening pleasure. Choose movies that you're familiar with, then let your ears tell you which satisfies you the most. You may want to get the reaction and comments from others who've heard your current set up. However, IMO, you can't go wrong buying the KSP-S6's, because you can always sell or trade those S-6's at a premium. You may be receiving PM's as we speak. Wes This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-12-2001 at 11:49 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 get the ksps-6's!! avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center sony strda-777ES receiver NEW! sony playstation 2! dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder pioneer dvd player sharp 35"tv panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire ksps-6 surrounds and a 'teens sub coming! KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_S Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 aab3rd - Thanks for the heads up. Consider me illuminated. As far as your predicament, for what it's worth I have a similar situation where my options for placing the rear surrounds are somewhat unorthodox. I chose to go with some RS-3s (WDST) in hopes they would provide some flexibility in placement over a forward firing model. I haven't received them yet so I'm not sure if this'll pan out or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColaBear Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Can someone explain the "ambience sound" created by these WDST speakers. I tried a pair of KSP-S6s versus a pair of KLF30s. I went with the 30s even though my receiver could have handled both. U571 sounds awesome, as does Saving Private Ryan, the Matrix and Super Speedway. Absolutely no loss of sound at all. But again, that's MHO. ------------------ KLF-30 mains KLF-C7 center KLF-30 side surrounds KG 3.5 rear surrounds KSW200 subwoofer Denon AVR5800 Pioneer Elite DV-09 Pioneer Elite PD-F19 RCA DTC100 DSS/HDTV Sony Playstation 2 Denon MD1000 Vidikron Epoch D-600 Vutec 100" 4:3 1.5 gain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 Here's my best explanation of why and what ambient sounds WDST speakers are designed to accomplish. Since the development of DD & DTS, today's sound engineers are adding both ambient and localized content to the two rear channels, together and separately. It's suggested that the best surround set up would be to have several matched speakers lined up on both sides and around the rear of our seating area, thus creating a "wall of sound". Many of us don't have or can't allocate the necessary space for the number of individual direct radiating speakers for this type configuration. The WDST speakers were designed to produce both ambience and localization sounds through the rear channels. Thus, they're considered the best compromise for a sole rear channel set up. I think speaker setup/selection still comes down to an individual preference as to what's pleasing to the actual listener. As I only have a 5.1 system, my preference was to include matching rears for 5 channel music and rear RS-3's as well for the WDST ambience effects during HT. Wes This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-12-2001 at 07:00 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aab3rd Posted September 12, 2001 Author Share Posted September 12, 2001 Shapeshifter If I understand you correctly (and others doing this), you have two sets of surround speakers in a 5.1 system. How do you switch between the two, depending on wether you are listening to music or watching a movie? Do you use an external A/B switch? If money was not an option for amplification then I could use the CF-1 I have in another room (but rarely listen to) for 5.1 music. That is if they would match well enough with the Legend 20s and C-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 aab3rd, Presently, I don't use a means to switch between which rears are playing. My NAD T761 receiver powers the RF-3's and my Outlaw Amp powers both front/rear Cornwalls. But I actually like the sound of my rear Cornwalls and RS-3's both playing in the multi channel mode on both music & HT. The Cornwall rears match the Cornwall fronts and I feel the mid/highs of the RF-3's are offset by the mid/highs of my Heresy fronts. I do have an older Niles DPS-1 Speaker Switching Box, but elect not to introduce another source in my signal path. You could use a switching component if you desired to have more control over which rear speakers are in use. My listening area will pose problems for me if I decide to upgrade to a 6.1 or 7.1 system. I have less that 4 feet of space available between the right side of my sofa and a fireplace for side surrounds. For now I'm thoroughly pleased with my 5.1 set up, as 95% of my listening is music. And a large percentage of that is now in the multi channel mode. I feel if you have other speakers available, experiment with different configurations. Just let your ears tell you what's pleasing and satisfying! But do buy those S-6's, you won't be disappointed. Wes This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-12-2001 at 10:58 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 12, 2001 Share Posted September 12, 2001 I don't know what I like! Early on I didn't like the S-6's for 7-channel stereo but after a fews weeks of listening I began missing that,uhh....non localizable effect that they provide.Having the widely popular crappy seating arrangement,the S-6's provide a "fill-in" that I'm beginning to appreciate with music.My advice is to get the S-6's and decide for yourself.They should be an improvement over the S-5's for your HT use. Keith ------------------ KSP-300 FL/R KSP-C6 CENTER SW8II C/SUB KSP-S6 SURR KSP300 SB SW12II SONY KP53XBR35 RP DENON 3801 DENON DVD3300 DVD-AUDIO SONY MDP455 LDP ACURUS 125X5 ACURUS 100X3 MONDIAL M.A.G.I.C. BOX PANAMAX MAX 1000 PANAMAX COAXMAX (2) AQ SLATE AQ COPPERHEAD AQ SIDEWINDER AQ VSD TRIBUTARIES S-VIDEO MONSTER INT.400MKIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 TTK, Since I don't have a 6.1 or 7.1 system. I've been wondering, are there suggested or recommended distances/height requirements for side surrounds and rear center speaker placement? I feel my choices for placement of any speakers to support either setup are crappy as well. That darn fireplace! Thanks for any input...Wes This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-13-2001 at 07:17 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Wes,the KSP-S6 owner's manual says you can place the S-6's on the rear wall,side wall,or ceiling.The most common placement being the side walls adjacent to/behind the listening area.When placed near the rear corners of the room leave at least one foot of clearance from the side walls.A height of approximately five to seven feet from the floor to the base of the cabinet is recommended.As usual,room acoustics will determine optimal placement. BTW,it also says good cables and connections will make an audible improvement in the sound of your speakers. You might download the Denon 3801 owners manual as it has good explanation and diagrams of rear speaker placement(see page 17 and pages 62 thru 65).Pages 64 and 65 should give you a good idea of the speaker placement question you ask. I am still in the process of setting up my system,and I never get in a hurry.As I said,at first I favored the monopole front/rear 300's and center for music and did not like the S-6's.But after much listening I'm beginning to like the addition of the S-6's and the additional fill they provide.My S-6's are mounted on my rear walls,just above my head at a height of 80" to base of cabinet(9' ceiling).Even though the horns project over my "sweet spot" seating position,the sound is still definitely detectable.Originally had planned to use two pair of S-6's (side/rear wall)for good surround coverage but after wiring the first pair and experiencing the sheer energy of the 7-channel "stereo" decided I didn't need any more speakers. My own opinion is that four like speakers,front and rear corners,and a good pair of WDST-type wall mounted surrounds would be hard to beat.Switching capability would be nice.Hence the reason for the system as below. Hope this helps. Keith ------------------ KSP-300 FL/R KSP-C6 CENTER SW8II C/SUB KSP-S6 SURR KSP300 SB SW12II SONY KP53XBR35 RP DENON 3801 DENON DVD3300 DVD-AUDIO SONY MDP455 LDP ACURUS 125X5 ACURUS 100X3 MONDIAL M.A.G.I.C. BOX PANAMAX MAX 1000 PANAMAX COAXMAX (2) AQ SLATE AQ COPPERHEAD AQ SIDEWINDER AQ VSD TRIBUTARIES S-VIDEO MONSTER INT.400MKIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 just got my ksps-6's, haven't 'leaned' on 'em yet, but will 2nite. i had a room layout concern-can't put speakers directly on the side-don't know if i'd EVER want to, but could use towers or bookshelf/stand combo. got the '6's about 6ft.behind me,2ft. in front of rear wall,12ft.apart. i chose them over the rs-7's because of the driver configuration (2x 6 1/2 mid-bass w/2x horns) to achieve direct and diffuse sound. can't wait to crank 'em! played at low volume two all-time fav surround cuts- seven bridges road/eagles hell freezes over dts dvd; 1st 'fire at will' scene from godzilla dd dvd. "honey, tell the neighbors that YES, INDEED I HAVE LOST MY MIND!!" avman. p.s. thanx ttK ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds sony strda-777ES receiver sony playstation 2 dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder pioneer dvd player sharp 35"tv panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire a 'teens' sub coming! KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! This message has been edited by avman on 09-13-2001 at 02:52 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 13, 2001 Share Posted September 13, 2001 Keith, Thanks for the reply. You've been a great help as usual. BTW - Your current setup should sound great. I will take a look at Denon's web site and download their PDF manual for additional reading. I'm not planning an immediate upgrade. I'm really trying to determine if my seating restrictions will prevent me from gaining any significant benefits. Plus, I want to see what the users verdict will be on the Outlaws new Pre/Pro that's scheduled for release, I believe in Oct. Well thanks again, Wes This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-13-2001 at 03:02 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 12 noon on the 777 volume control...OH YEAH!THEY JAM!! avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds sony strda-777ES receiver sony playstation 2 dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder pioneer dvd player sharp 35"tv panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire a 'teens' sub coming! KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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