ScorpsFan Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Ok, after reading through the forums, I have learned that my speaker wire should be inexpensive and fat, that length really doesn't matter (Huh?!?!) as long as I don't 'coil it nicely' and since my speakers and amps are a few feet apart shorter is better. But say the installation has the amps at 5', 10' and 15' respectively from the pre-amp, should those connections remain the same or can I treat those like the speaker cables and use varied lengths to "keep 'em neat"? I am thinking of giving these a try-out: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KRY2.1M so, if anyone has experience with them and cares to share, or has other suggestions, I'd appreciate your thoughts, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 bump Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 We had a bump and no reponses. So I'll give it a shot. About the speaker wire. I'm a believer that 16 gauge is good for most home type runs. PWK and the engineers at McIntosh are of the same view. My main objection to expensive wire is that its sale is usually allied with hucksterism. There is a legit question on speaker wire when one speaker is across the room and the other is close to the amp. The extra length should not make very much difference, in practice. I have a the set up described above. The alternative is to keep the lengths equal and do some coiling up. That shouldn't make much of a difference either. If takes quite a few turns to make an inductor which would have an effect even at high audio frequencies. We're talking hundreds of turns. Given my 'druthers, I've not coiled things. My basic reasoning is that physical neatness is an esthetic. Also, this is the first step to creating a rat's nest of wire which can lead to confusion over what is going where. And if you're using reasonably priced zip cord, it doesn't matter if move things around. Maybe leave what you need for experimentation of placement. But that is it. As for line level feeds: An old rule of thumb I saw long ago is that 16 feet is about the limit for such a run. That was for tube type preamps and ss amps may be less sensitive. Eventually the capacitance of the wire can overcome the ability of the pre-amp to maintain voltage at its output. Best, Gil I certainly don't see any reason to make all feeds 16 feet and coil up the long wire for the short runs. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin26 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hi there! I dont really see a reason to have all the feeds in the same length either. You will not have an audible offset because one cable is longer that the other. Someone in another forum once calculated how large the difference in lenght must be to be audible. Given, that the electrons inside the cable travel almost at light speed, you would need kilometers of difference to hear an offset. One thing that MIGHT be audible is the fact, that a longer cable will have more resistance than a shorter cable with the same diameter thus there will be greater signal loss from the pre-amp to the amp. As the amp will then amplify the signal the effect might be audible, as it will also multiply the "signal difference". Say you are loosing 1 percent of signal power from the pre-amp to the amp. The signal is then amplified by factor 10. So you would have 10% less power coming out of your speakers. Can anyone, who REALLY knows electronics comment on that? This is just what i figured.... Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin26 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Well.... then again... you could simply increase the gain of that speaker (or speakers) when calibrating the system.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ---------------- On 8/5/2005 6:25:07 AM Anakin26 wrote: One thing that MIGHT be audible is the fact, that a longer cable will have more resistance than a shorter cable with the same diameter thus there will be greater signal loss from the pre-amp to the amp. As the amp will then amplify the signal the effect might be audible, as it will also multiply the "signal difference". Say you are loosing 1 percent of signal power from the pre-amp to the amp. The signal is then amplified by factor 10. So you would have 10% less power coming out of your speakers. Nick ---------------- I don't get how you came up with that conclusion. If you lose 1%, you're left with 99%... if you amplify it tenfold, you have 990%... NOT 900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScorpsFan Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Thanks Gil, Anakin and Meuge for the responses, the speakers will (with one exception) be next to the amps, so the speaker runs will be short. So the next part of the puzzle is... are interconnects treated the same way as speaker wire? My pre-amp will be off center so the distances between the amps and pre amp will vary from 6' to about 18' can the interconnects be wired at differing lengths or should they all be the same/ Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin26 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ---------------- On 8/5/2005 8:27:01 AM meuge wrote: I don't get how you came up with that conclusion. If you lose 1%, you're left with 99%... if you amplify it tenfold, you have 990%... NOT 900. ---------------- You have just given the answer to yourself! You end up with 990% on the one amp (and its connected speakers) and 1000% on the other amp (the one with the shorter wire), thus you have a 10% loss on the "990% side". What I was pointing out is, that you will "amplify" the signal difference. 1% of signal loss on a speaker wire will not be audible. But amplifying the 1% loss by factor 10 through the amp might be audible. I don´t know if this really is the case... i was just figuring it might be this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ---------------- On 8/5/2005 10:28:19 AM Anakin26 wrote: You have just given the answer to yourself! You end up with 990% on the one amp (and its connected speakers) and 1000% on the other amp (the one with the shorter wire), thus you have a 10% loss on the "990% side". What I was pointing out is, that you will "amplify" the signal difference. 1% of signal loss on a speaker wire will not be audible. But amplifying the 1% loss by factor 10 through the amp might be audible. I don´t know if this really is the case... i was just figuring it might be this way. ---------------- But it's not a 10% loss! It's still a 1% loss, because 990/1000 is 1%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Needless to say, the differences in approach have minimal impact. With all due respect, I think this poor horse has been beat to a pulp! I think we have long ago reached the point of being way to anal about this subject! Relax and come out from under the sofa! And with the exceptions of a few wackos here, no one is going to come and inspect your installation and take away your listening priveleges if you deviate alittle here or there! Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin26 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ---------------- On 8/5/2005 11:16:08 AM meuge wrote: But it's not a 10% loss! It's still a 1% loss, because 990/1000 is 1%. ---------------- OUCH! My teacher always told me that I will not become a famous mathematician. I guess it´s quite evident now, why..... Thank you for the little lesson. I will put the calculator under my pillow tonight! And by the way... my speaker cables are ALL differnt lengths... and I mean each and every one of my 7 speakers! Nick - smarter now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ---------------- On 8/5/2005 11:36:36 AM dragonfyr wrote: Needless to say, the differences in approach have minimal impact. With all due respect, I think this poor horse has been beat to a pulp! I think we have long ago reached the point of being way to anal about this subject! Relax and come out from under the sofa! And with the exceptions of a few wackos here, no one is going to come and inspect your installation and take away your listening priveleges if you deviate alittle here or there! Enjoy! ---------------- I don't know that he IS under the sofa but sometimes people who don't deal with this kind of stuff much would like opinions from those that do or are more knowledgable than themselves...so at the very least, not to make a potentially expensive mistake...as for right now, I am using RCA branded interconnects with the clear cover and braided silver (colored) underneath...BusyBee (maker of some decent tube electronics) recommends this as it was the original (theirs) home made wire of decent quality...you can now get it at Frye's and the like (Home Depot too... ) and it has the gold ends and seemed to my eye to be VERY similar to the Rat Shack many tout...I like the look better when I bought it and it was in stock where several of the local Rat Shacks around me didn't have enough of the interconnects I needed...I also run some 12GA and some 16GA Home Depot wire and find it nicer than the Mon$ter given me (ends turned green) and as nice as some 15 year old audioquest. Just my opinion. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ---------------- On 8/5/2005 11:36:36 AM dragonfyr wrote: Needless to say, the differences in approach have minimal impact. With all due respect, I think this poor horse has been beat to a pulp! I think we have long ago reached the point of being way to anal about this subject! Relax and come out from under the sofa! And with the exceptions of a few wackos here, no one is going to come and inspect your installation and take away your listening priveleges if you deviate alittle here or there! Enjoy! ---------------- I don't know that he IS under the sofa but sometimes people who don't deal with this kind of stuff much would like opinions from those that do or are more knowledgable than themselves...so at the very least, not to make a potentially expensive mistake...as for right now, I am using RCA branded interconnects with the clear cover and braided silver (colored) underneath...BusyBee (maker of some decent tube electronics) recommends this as it was the original (theirs) home made wire of decent quality...you can now get it at Frye's and the like (Home Depot too... ) and it has the gold ends and seemed to my eye to be VERY similar to the Rat Shack many tout...I like the look better when I bought it and it was in stock where several of the local Rat Shacks around me didn't have enough of the interconnects I needed...I also run some 12GA and some 16GA Home Depot wire and find it nicer than the Mon$ter given me (ends turned green) and as nice as some 15 year old audioquest. Just my opinion. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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