Weak bass on Heresy IIs

[Lenardie]

I am now the proud owner of two new Heresy IIs. I have not been able to get very strong bass

on them. I have tried CDs, FM and cable TV music sources with out much luck. I actually get better bass through my TV speakers. I'm not looking for chest thumping bass but I feel I should be getting better then I am.

I have a new Yahama HTR-5840 6.1 channel receiver which I have set for stereo reception. I turn the bass up all the way and it helps but not like it should. Actually, this receiver has many more features then I need

and they do not have the easiest instruction manual but I think I have everything set up right.

Does anyone know anything about these receivers? Should I take it back?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Leonard

[michael hurd]

Have you checked to make sure that you have the speakers hooked up in phase? Reversing the wires to one of the speakers will result in very weak bass.

Check to make sure that the speakers are not set to "small" by default in the menu for the receiver, this will cut the bass to them.

Lastly, the heresy will perform better in a corner, preferably close to the floor, where there will be mutual coupling between the walls and floor. This results in a better bass response, toe-in will also help out, reducing wall reflections from the midrange and tweeter.

[pauln]

I had Heresys for 25 years before I got LaScalas. Put them in the corners on the floor toed in 45 degrees. Yamaha gear has a reputation for being a little shrill, I had one for many years. Tubes will help, vinyl with help, some here say a sub will help, but I never did it.

Do check the polarity to be sure.

Post Heresy Paul

[edwinr]

Your Heresys should be placed on the floor on angled risers, available from Klipsch Parts.

[colterphoto1]

PaulN states: 'Yamaha gear has a reputation for being a little shrill'

Really Paul? You should come over here and let me blast you with a Yamaha RXV2400 and 4x Cornwalls. There is some much beautiful deep bass that I only use a KSW12 sub and it rocks! Ask anyone who has visited here.

Do you or have you ever owned a good quality Yamaha receiver in the last decade? If not please stop the Yamaha bashing. It's the little Heresy at fault here plain and simple. Yes I own them too, they are bass shy, but nice sounding when properly positioned.

Thanks,

Michael

[sunnysal]

First, do as mike said and swap the wires on one speaker to make sure they are in phase with each other, that totally sucks the bass out. Second, make sure they are on the floor and stuff them into corners that should enhance the bass output. let us know how it turns out, tony

[travisc]

I have been down the same road with a htr 5790, ultimately, I use a different amp and the Yamaha is used as a preamp. This solved my bass woes. You may want to consider trying a Denon or other brand reviever, or trying the rxv line that Yamaha makes. Sounds like your not satisfied. I am not bashing Yamaha, they make great motorcycles[] Another thing you could do is post a question to the forum. Buy a used reciever get more bang for less bucks. The Heresy wont shake the house but they should be punchy. This problem your facing is the same thing I was dealing with. Sorry Colter but Ive proven its the amp, I think there must be considerable differences in the htr line. I would Return it

ps I am very familiar with the menu on those Yamahas and will be happy to answer any questions.

[PrestonTom]

If it is the low bass that you are concerned about (yet within the range of the cabinet's specified roll off) , then much of the final level (at your ears) will be determined by room acoustics.

The Heresys are fairly efficient and do not present a terribly low impedance to the amp. So I do not beleive a different amp will solve the problem (unless it has very little power). If the 2 channels are in phase, then try (in a systematic manner) varying their position relative to the rear walls and side walls (of course have them on the floor or on a small riser). The wavelengths are fairly large (10 ft at 100 Hz) and your room may have a geometry that produces some strong nodes & anti-nodes.

With decently recorded sources and an adequately sized amp, room acoustics are probably the culprit.

Good luck,

-Tom

[homemade]

See my post on adding a subwoofer to the khorn. A simple 12inch good xmax subwoofer should fill the bill. I think I paid $30 for mine plus $149 for the 250watt plate amp and put them into a box I had laying around. I originally built the box for an Eminence 12inch subwoofer and the foam rotted away a few yrs ago and emailed Eminence about the specs and they told me it was made for an M&K subwoofer but it was very, very easy to overload at low freq. from a 25watt amp. It just wasn't useable. I then spotted this car subwoofer on ebay (MAaudio) for $30 and it kicks. It just has an xmax of 10mm but I haven't been able to get it to bottom at 120db, etc. It probably does suffer from some compression of sound at higher volumes though. Compliments my khorns nicely and would work great for your Heresy's. I can get you the model number if you are interested.

[colterphoto1]

Guys, we are audiophiles, please purchase and compare Yamaha's top line if your'e to get optimal performance.

HTR is the 'best buy' series.

Get an RXV and you'll be BLOWN AWAY!

Michael

[travisc]

Guys, we are audiophiles, please purchase and compare Yamaha's top line if your'e to get optimal performance.

HTR is the 'best buy' series.

Get an RXV and you'll be BLOWN AWAY!

Michael

I think you were right all along micheal. I dont know why they would make an inferior model line through bestbuy though, That is where there mass market is.

this thing makes a good preamp though, it will heat the house this winter as well

[homemade]

I'm just using the cheapest Yamaha HTR 5130 reciever of 4 yrs ago and it sounds just fine to me although the dolby pro logic has a lot to be desired (distortion, noise, etc.). Plenty of bass with my khorn although it needs a subwoofer too. It sounds just as good as my older Yamaha 200watt amp and Soundcraftsman preamp I had running. Can someone explain why the RXV series has better bass? Probably has the same electronics inside!

[colterphoto1]

I don't know about the circuitry, but the RXV is rated power the normal way (20-20k, both channels, low distortion, etc) HTR series is rated at 1khz, like rear surround channels used to be rated. So right off, you're not comparing apples to apples. RXV has better features, YPAO parametric eq and delays, better DSP circuitry. Probably more damping factor, but that doens't come into play much with Klipsch speakers.

My point is this. Compare RXV series to Denon, HK, and others. I don't think it fair to compare the Yamaha HTR series with the big boys of other mfg's.

I don't know where the 'Yamaha is harsh with Klipsch' theory came about, but I've had Yamaha RXV series since the ProLogic days and they always sounded fantastic with my Cornwalls. I like the Yamaha features, DSP, and remotes better as well. So I'm on my third Yammie reciever right now. RXV2400- it rocks!

Michael

[Lenardie]

I returned to the vender (Video Only) today and they made some suggestions that seem to be helping. There is a lot of information in their manual and it's hard to digest it all at once. I'm 30 years behind times on audio and trying to play catchup.

Yamaha says, on their website, that the HTR and RXV series are identical. Their power ratings are a little different but if both were rated identically, they would be the same. I took their word for it.

Thanks to all for your helpful suggestions.

Leonard

[colterphoto1]

That Yamaha information is incorrect. Look at the specs, it's what I said. They are rated by different methods.

Here's a simple test, explain why there is a substantial weight difference between the HTR and RXV series of the same wattage? There is a substantial construction difference. They may be both made of 'high quality parts' but that says nothing of the type of parts, construction method, frame, etc.

From the Yamaha website:

What Is The Difference Between The RX-V Line And The HTR Line?

There are many similarities between these two product lines. The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods, the same manufacturer's suggested retail price, the same features, and the same remote control units.

There is a cosmetic difference found on the front panels of these two lines. The RX-V line maintains the traditional white colored lettering normally found on most Yamaha components, while the HTR line provides a slightly different approach. Yamaha has created a new look by using gold colored lettering in selected areas on the HTR receiver series. However, both the RX-V line and the HTR line feature the same high quality front panel construction.

The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical but rated differently to comply with the accepted measurement standards of their respective channels of distribution. Both ratings are FTC approved and are designed to handle the dynamics of today's audio and video sources. The RX-V line has the power amplifiers rated from 20-20000 Hz. The HTR line has the power amplifiers rated at 1000 Hz. Both lines can reproduce the full frequency response of 20-20000 Hz.

The RX-V line is typically sold through Yamaha authorized audio/video specialty retailers, and is not available for mail order sales, phone sales, or internet sales.

The HTR line is sold through mass merchants, catalog retailers, and department stores. You may also purchase the HTR line through the mail, by phone, or at authorized internet retailers.

[colterphoto1]

I'm not trying to beat up on the HTR series, and agreed, many stereo manuals these days seem loosly translated from Japanese. Is there a calibrated mic with your unit? Have you been able to access the tone controls and/or onboard EQ from the receiver? Be certain that you have everything setup correctly before judging the receiver too harshly.

Be absolutely certain that both speakers are IN PHASE. Out of phase speakers will give a pronounced lack of bass.

Michael

[DrWho]

I just wanted to comment on one thing guys...the guy with the problem claims his TV speakers have better bass. No difference in amps (unless it is a faulty amp), speaker placement or even room acoustics is going to explain the huge difference (because the TV speakers in the same room have more bass).

If after you check the phase on your speakers (even go so far as to switch the polarity on one of the speakers by switching the red and black cable on the back), then I would check to make sure all the woofers are working. It sounds to me like something might be busted []

[Lenardie]

Michael:

Thanks for the info. I was unable to get detailed specs. on the RX-V457

on the net to compare. I could find them for the HTR-5840 but not on the RX.

From their comparison I assumed they were identical electronically. What do you mean by a "calibrated Mic"? Yes, I am able to access the tone controls and EQ from the receiver. To get a decent sound, I have to have the bass and treble set at maximum. My 25 year old Technics actually does a better job. After ordering new speakers, I wanted to start out with a new receiver also. I feel there is somthing that has to be programed into the Yamaha that I have not figured out yet.

Do you by any chance know the weight of the RX-V457?

As I said in a previous post, I'm 30 years behind time when it comes to audio. The only reason I am getting new is that I lost the bass on my 30 year old speakers. The surround foam on the woffers disindegrated.

Leonard

[whell]

That Yamaha information is incorrect. Look at the specs, it's what I said. They are rated by different methods.

Here's a simple test, explain why there is a substantial weight difference between the HTR and RXV series of the same wattage? There is a substantial construction difference. They may be both made of 'high quality parts' but that says nothing of the type of parts, construction method, frame, etc.

From the Yamaha website:

What Is The Difference Between The RX-V Line And The HTR Line?

There are many similarities between these two product lines. The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods, the same manufacturer's suggested retail price, the same features, and the same remote control units.

There is a cosmetic difference found on the front panels of these two lines. The RX-V line maintains the traditional white colored lettering normally found on most Yamaha components, while the HTR line provides a slightly different approach. Yamaha has created a new look by using gold colored lettering in selected areas on the HTR receiver series. However, both the RX-V line and the HTR line feature the same high quality front panel construction.

The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical but rated differently to comply with the accepted measurement standards of their respective channels of distribution. Both ratings are FTC approved and are designed to handle the dynamics of today's audio and video sources. The RX-V line has the power amplifiers rated from 20-20000 Hz. The HTR line has the power amplifiers rated at 1000 Hz. Both lines can reproduce the full frequency response of 20-20000 Hz.

The RX-V line is typically sold through Yamaha authorized audio/video specialty retailers, and is not available for mail order sales, phone sales, or internet sales.

The HTR line is sold through mass merchants, catalog retailers, and department stores. You may also purchase the HTR line through the mail, by phone, or at authorized internet retailers.

I didn't care for the RXV series when I had it paired with my RB-5's a couple years ago. Why? It sounded a bit shrill to me.

If yours sounds great to you, that's outstanding. Audio is a hobby governed by the phrase "Your mileage may vary." If someone says soemthing sounded less than acceptable to them, it doesn't make them wrong. There are way too many variables in audio that impact someone's impressions.

No doubt that either the HTR or RXV series were well designed and well implemented, and most might find them quite acceptable for their needs.

[colterphoto1]

Leonard,

I don't know the weight, that isn't a huge determinant of the quality of the machine, I was merely using that as an example that two units from different lines had to something substantially different, not 'the same electronics' exactly.

Before you get a new receiver, I'd really like to get to the bottom of the speaker issue. Would it be possible to borrow a receiver from a neighbor or friend to test drive your Heresies with? Something is wrong. Or maybe plug some other speakers into your receiver.

Should you need a receiver, I feel strongly that the RXV line is far better build and features than the HTR line.

The calibrated mic is part of Yamaha's YPAO system. You plug the mic into a port on the reciever, put it in your listening position, push a button and quietly leave the room. A series of test tones are emmitted and the receiver automatically checks the phase of each speaker, adjust an internal digital delay so even if the speakers are not equidistant from your listening position, sound arrives at the same time, and applies a 7 band eq to each speaker based on some data you give the unit. It's a good system.

Michael