Crown D-45 is excellent ss

[sunnysal]

Julie,

Unfortunately we still are not able to measure the type of things that affect good sound versus bad sound, even tizzy versus not...the measurements currently available give only a broad picture of an amps potential performance, in VERY specific areas.

So, auditioning an amp in your system with your music is really the only way to decide. Over time, one can draw general opinions from hearing a variety of types of amps in a variety of different systems BUT these opinions are ALWAYS limited in applicability. Other people´s experiences/opinions must be put into perspective re: their tastes, thier listening experience, thier systems, etc. before applying thme to your situation.

So...whenever possible look at specs to get a general idea of the performance envelope of the amp (distortion specs in the many areas, damping factor, dynamic headroom, etc.), listen to opinions from people have actual experience with the amp in question (but keep it in perspective as to applicability to you) and audition whenever possible before buying (at a store, someones house, and best of all, in your system).

regards,

tony

[JulieHeartKlipsch]

Unfortunately it is not

too much different from debates, I mean, arguments between those

who feel that religion is absolute and that science presents only a

flawed representation of the natural world.

Funny how so many choose to see them as being at odds with each other...

But then that reflects the predilection of those involved and not the nature of reality...

And

on this site we have many who have already made up their minds, and for

which a discussion is not so much for the purpose of exploring an idea

as it is a means to impose their already formed interpretation.

What might be more refreshing and a bit more productive would be a discussion of how the models, if they are so flawed, can be modified to more closely represent the thing described.

But

unfortunately, few are actually aware of the current models that they

are so quick to dismiss. And, heaven forbid, in an environment

where, for example, complex topics like time and frequency variant impedance is overly reduced to static nominal impedance (I mean resistance!) it might be a fascinating journey to discover and learn what the existing models really say. And that would be but a simple beginning!

But

let's be careful here! As we don't want to come too dangerously close

to actually pushing the limits of folks' understanding and perhaps

actually expanding our knowledge! ...Such heresy![][6]

I am not allowed to discuss religious matters as per request from

moderator but I must say that I agree about religion is absolute.

Meaning one religion (I won't say which one) is absolutely right and

the rest (I won't list them) are false religions.

I also agree with you and someone else who says/said that it is most

important to listen to musical equipment in conjunction with your own

other musical equipment. I always seek to expand my knowledgeable

horizons but not when it means kowtowing to a strongly persuasive

arguer only and ignoring my education and life's experiences.

Regards,

Julie

[mobile homeless]

I frankly don't know what to make of these wildly divergent opinions. I'm not seeking convergence so much as understanding. Is the difference in this thread and the other simply personal opinions/experiences/ hearing acuteness and/or deficiencies or is it more of different units equipment in the entire system(s)? Is there no "absolute sound"?[] Other than a magazine) Specifications if made accurately mean something it is all in the interpretation of them. I do not want equipment "etched" nor on the other side something "mellow." Can one tell etched v. mellow by specifications?

See Sunnysal Tony's excellent, well-put answer to this quandry. Finding an absolute sound per say is a lesson in false hope (even within that mag), but you can use everything you can gather from specs, opinions, reviews and sift it through your own perceptions/experience to possibly hone in on something that you might want to TRY OUT. Ultimately, this is the final answer. If really wanting to know how you like the gear, you probably need to try the component in your own system, in your own room, with your own music. Still, we try to wade through the experiences and opinions to hone in on attributes of the gear (the more variables we can include, the better).

As for the forums, you get to know the people via their writing, their tastes, perceptions, and experience. And it helps to see their systems and what they might be comparing it to, as well as the music, room, and what they hold important. You take all of it with the proverbial grain of salt and jump in.

kh

[JulieHeartKlipsch]

Good goin' Leo!

Glad to see someone else has discovered these little gems!

For

most of my everyday needs Ive been using some Crown D-60s to power

the Khorns for decades. No, they dont hold a candle to my Luxman

triodes, but few amps of any kind, at any price do. I just leave the

D-60s on 24/7. Ive had one them as the original owner since 1973.

IMO,

those old, little, low powered Crown amps are amongst the best sounding

amps Crown ever made, and hold their own very well against amps costing

10-100x more. You can pickup one these on Ebay for $100.

The

D45, D60 and D75 are all very similar, all descendants of the Crown SA

20/20 (Crowns first amplifier) and SA30/30 (I also have a SA30/30).

Does it bother you to go back and forth with your different amplifers

with the Luxman(s) sounding so much better I don't know why you would

want to use the other ones at all if they don't hold a candle to the

Luxman(s). Does not make sense IMHO.

[JulieHeartKlipsch]

To hopefully offer clarity to the above, "artto" said the Crown does

not hold a candle to the Luxman(s). I do not have an opinion

because I have not heard either so this is not my opinion.

I understand if one person likes one and not the other and someone else

vice versa but not one person liking one and not the other in compare

but keeping both. Why? Why do people want to have all the extra trouble? Is it just collecting????

[Duke Spinner]

sorry, Julie H. Klipsch......

it must be very frustrating to try to make sense of all this.....

the particular Luxman's that were referred to are an esoteric

amplifier of which few were made, greatly regarded for quality of sound

and construction

the Crown's are still around , 'cause they sound great, too, in a

different way, and probably are in use as an all around "workhorse" for

various audio needs

[Marvel]

Julie,

I'll put it another way. Right now my main system that my wife and I

listen to has a tube preamp and ss power amp. Since my wife has been

home recuperating from visits to the hospital, this is easier for her

to deal with during the day when I am not home. It's not that she

couldn't normally deal with the watching out for the tube power amp,

but the other is just a turn on and leave on all day without having to

worry about it.

Both power amps seem to work well (that synergy thing again) with the

preamp and speakers (Heresy IIs), so it doesn't really matter which one

is in the system. I like the tubes at night because it is a little city

with lights when all the other lights are out or turned down low.

But I'm more interested in listening to the music.

Bruce

btw Which Madison are you from? Iowa, Wisconsin, Alabama. etc. We used

to live in Madison, WI. I loved the area, it is so beautiful there.

[colterphoto1]

uh, yeah Julie, we like to collect stuff. It's a guy thing.

Makes us feel powerful just having a bunch of tools at our disposal.[]

Michael

[JulieHeartKlipsch]

Thanks guys. So different amplifiers partly because solid state is

easier? Do you really have to watch tube ampsifiers so they don't

"blow up"? All amplifiers use to be tube I think and the world is still

here!!!

WISCONSIN OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!

[dragonfyr]

Thanks guys. So different amplifiers partly because solid state is easier? Do you really have to watch tube ampsifiers so they don't "blow up"? All amplifiers use to be tube I think and the world is still here!!!

WISCONSIN OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!

And to think that there were tubes and records and at one time we even walked!

Believe it or not, enough people felt that the subsequent replacements offered enough advantages to effectively replace the older methods.

But then I suspect there are a few here who eschew the entire 'electicity' thing as well.[]

Ah...Madison, WI, the home of the SDS, and the mecca of home made bombs in America...And it's a bit ironic that most folks erroneously think of Columbia or UCBerkeley! But all is not lost, as Karl Hess came out of the movement and provided an alternative to the Left that is still to be realized![]

A beautiful area, but those winters get old after awhile!

[Marvel]

Wisconsin -- Cool! We later moved to Waterloo, home of Trek Bicycles.

I used my Dynaco for about 15 years and never even checked the bias on

it It worked great. Had a babysitter melt an album on it one night

while we went out for dessert and coffee.

They don't require constant attention, but some are more touchy than

others. And Michael may be right, it's a guy thing to collect this

stuff.

Bruce

Madison history and politics -- My wife and I moved there in 1980. We

almost rented a house south of the beltline a ways, that had been the

home of one of the Armstrongs or Fine. Not sure which. It was a pretty

neat house, but the owner wanted too much money for it. I don't know if

they had any of their bom making materials there or not. We moved there

to help start a church, pretty radical in its own right.

[Daddy Dee]

I wanted to bump this thread and ask a question. of course, this may have been answered in the thread and I would have recognized it, if I had more of a technical sense. Apologies in advance if that is the case.

I am understanding from Leo's posts that the D-45 may not yield good results if used with a tube linestage.

What I'm wondering is about the compatibility of CDP's.

Would there be a compatibility issue with tubed CDP's such as the AH! Njoe Tjoebs or the Heart CDP?

Any help is appreciated.

[leok]

I don't have specs for a tubed cd player, but if the output impedance

is over 1KOhms I wouldn't expect the best out of the combination. Even

at somewhat lower output impedances I would recommend a serious

audition.

Leo

[Daddy Dee]

I don't have specs for a tubed cd player, but if the output impedance

is over 1KOhms I wouldn't expect the best out of the combination. Even

at somewhat lower output impedances I would recommend a serious

audition.

Leo

Thank you Leo. Appreciate your take on that.

The AH! has an output impedence of under 250 ohms... so I suppose that would likely be a good match... no?

The AH! output voltage is 2.4V, but is adjustable form 0.5V to 4.0V

Interesting enough, the HEART CDP, another Dutch Marantz tube conversion has output that is 2.3V, sourced from a fair 1300

Ohms impedance... so it would be iffy with the Crown D-45.

[Daddy Dee]

bump

[leok]

That would be my take on the two players (AH and HEART). I wonder how the AH gets the low impedance, possibly cathode follower.

Leo