Champagne taste beer budget Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I just got off the phone with someone at one of the stations we do radio advertising with, we were recording a segment to be played in a couple weeks, when she asked me to hold on, she had an engineer stringing wires around the board she was working from. The little light flashed on in my head; an engineer at a radio station that I had yet to ask about an interest or use of tubes in his or any friends personal systems. He was kind enough to get on the phone with me for a short time, but was obviously not a tube enthusiast. His claim was that if you ran a signal straight from a CD player into a SS amp, and listened to it, then ran that same signal through 10 additional amps and listened again, you wouldn't hear a difference. However, if you substituted one tube amp for any of the SS amps, the difference you'd hear would be noticeable, and due only to the effect of the tubes, thereby proving that tubes color the sound whereas SS does not. We were both pressed for time, so not really much of a discussion, just his take on his version of "The Facts" . He did say he'd check for any tube stuff he could find, that what he used to have he threw away years ago. I wish I was educated enough on this stuff to have been able to offer a rebuttle. [:S] Still reading and learning though. Anyone care to comment on his comments?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Everything colors sound (some call it distortion). Which color do you prefer? [] Woo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Blue, of COURSE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 yup, sounds like an engineer, not an artist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Yep, the arteeest has even less of an understanding of the tools employed, as everything works based upon attitude and emotional demands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Well, hi fi gear does work on the "attitude and emotional demands" of the designer of the gear. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Of course! Since that fisks stuff is all nonsense, the engineer just lies on the floor, kicks and screams and whines and the equipment magically does whatever their intention may be. And if it doesn't, they just replace the monitor mix, like the arteeest does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Nonsense. If designers didn't have INDIVIDUAL tastes and "agendas" then EVERYTHING WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I can take two engineers and tell them to use nothing but the standard circuit topologies in a textbook and have them build a unit to meet identical needs, and the odds are that they will build two very different units. I am sure there is a point there, but it begs the obvious. And I know that in this forum of very exceptional minds, such is not the intent! Do you mean to tell me all devices for similar purposes are not the same! Or that under the covers ALL devices are not actually the SAME device!?[] Oh, its soooo confusing![] But I bet if that wacko Bush wasn't in office, with the lib 'equality of outcomes', all devices would be the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 He did say he'd check for any tube stuff he could find, that what he used to have he threw away years ago. I wish I was educated enough on this stuff to have been able to offer a rebuttle. [:S] Still reading and learning though. Anyone care to comment on his comments?!? A "few years" ago likely translates into "We stopped using it 25+ years ago and just got around to throwing it out a few years back." I'll guess by 1975 it was difficult to find any tube gear in a studio. I'm certain by 1980 it was pretty much all gone. My recent "re-education" in high end audio has been interesting so far. The the standout thing is that people are falling all over themselves to find and use equipment that wasn't considered high-end 30 years ago, and we're now discussing it's alleged superiority... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 My recent "re-education" in high end audio has been interesting so far. The the standout thing is that people are falling all over themselves to find and use equipment that wasn't considered high-end 30 years ago, and we're now discussing it's alleged superiority... Now, now! Be nice![] The next thing you'll be telling me is that my ~2750 S/N constrained vinyl records aren't better then any of the newer formats! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 My recent "re-education" in high end audio has been interesting so far. The the standout thing is that people are falling all over themselves to find and use equipment that wasn't considered high-end 30 years ago, and we're now discussing it's alleged superiority... Now, now! Be nice![] The next thing you'll be telling me is that my ~2750 S/N constrained vinyl records aren't better then any of the newer formats! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!![] Just an observation. Maybe my ears have gone from old age, but the D-75A Crown I just bought for $130 sounds fine to me. Given that you see them everywhere, and that there's a good chance the monitoring of the original mix was done with one, I guess I'm not alone... <shrug> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 My recent "re-education" in high end audio has been interesting so far. The the standout thing is that people are falling all over themselves to find and use equipment that wasn't considered high-end 30 years ago, and we're now discussing it's alleged superiority... Now, now! Be nice![] The next thing you'll be telling me is that my ~2750 S/N constrained vinyl records aren't better then any of the newer formats! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!![] Just an observation. Maybe my ears have gone from old age, but the D-75A Crown I just bought for $130 sounds fine to me. Given that you see them everywhere, and that there's a good chance the monitoring of the original mix was done with one, I guess I'm not alone... <shrug> and I have been saying That here .... for a year ..... maybe it's sinking in ......[:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 My recent "re-education" in high end audio has been interesting so far. The the standout thing is that people are falling all over themselves to find and use equipment that wasn't considered high-end 30 years ago, and we're now discussing it's alleged superiority... Now, now! Be nice![] The next thing you'll be telling me is that my ~2750 S/N constrained vinyl records aren't better then any of the newer formats! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!![] Just an observation. Maybe my ears have gone from old age, but the D-75A Crown I just bought for $130 sounds fine to me. Given that you see them everywhere, and that there's a good chance the monitoring of the original mix was done with one, I guess I'm not alone... <shrug> and I have been saying That here .... for a year ..... maybe it's sinking in ......[:|] Hey, give me a break. I've only been here a month and I bought the Crown 3 weeks ago...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Nonsense. If designers didn't have INDIVIDUAL tastes and "agendas" then EVERYTHING WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME. Exactly my belief too, it's just plain common sense. And it's the reason I have trouble comprehending why some people believe an person should have to have had experience with Brand X audio equipment, in order to give a qualitative description as to whether or not Brand Y is a quality piece of gear. That just pure BS, and illogical. A wise man once told me that every piece of audio gear has it's own signature. That is logical. That I can comprehend. A person does not need to have to listened to 100 different pieces of gear to figure that one out. Sorry I got carried away on that. Someone here (!!!!!) put a thorn in my side, and I had to pull it out. Thanks Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Nonsense. If designers didn't have INDIVIDUAL tastes and "agendas" then EVERYTHING WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME. Exactly my belief too, it's just plain common sense. And it's the reason I have trouble comprehending why some people believe an person should have to have had experience with Brand X audio equipment, in order to give a qualitative description as to whether or not Brand Y is a quality piece of gear. That just pure BS, and illogical. A wise man once told me that every piece of audio gear has it's own signature. That is logical. That I can comprehend. A person does not need to have to listened to 100 different pieces of gear to figure that one out. Sorry I got carried away on that. Someone here (!!!!!) put a thorn in my side, and I had to pull it out. Thanks Alan. WAIT ...! i thought the job of premium equipment .... was NOT to color the Sound ....???......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 WAIT ...! i thought the job of premium equipment .... was NOT to color the Sound ....???......[] That is physically impossible, IMO. As a test, go to few high end audio stores and audition their best and throw in a few not so best systems. Just for grins, see if the any of the 2 sound the same. Fact is, they won't. It's impossible. Each element (i.e. resistor, cap, tube, inductor, IC, etc. etc.) that the signal goes through in any particular component will be stained or enhanced (however you choose to look at it) to some degree by that element. The wise man also thought me that, actually, I knew it, but just never thought about it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 WAIT ...! i thought the job of premium equipment .... was NOT to color the Sound ....???......[] That is physically impossible, IMO. As a test, go to few high end audio stores and audition their best and throw in a few not so best systems. Just for grins, see if the any of the 2 sound the same. Fact is, they won't. It's impossible. Each element (i.e. resistor, cap, tube, inductor, IC, etc. etc.) that the signal goes through in any particular component will be stained or enhanced (however you choose to look at it) to some degree by that element. The wise man also thought me that, actually, I knew it, but just never thought about it that way. It makes sense that's there's a difference. The question is, how much difference, and the bigger question is, can people really tell the difference. Take a common $.75 Panasonic polypropylene film capacitor for example and compare it to some high end $15.00 "audiophile cap". Think anyone could tell the difference in a double blind test? My bet is no way a person could tell the difference but the $5000 cable and interconnect crowd would likely tell me I'm full of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 ... then ran that same signal through 10 additional amps and listened again, you wouldn't hear a difference. I would love to see the hookup scheme for that test. However, if you substituted one tube amp for any of the SS amps, the difference you'd hear would be noticeable, and due only to the effect of the tubes, thereby proving that tubes color the sound whereas SS does not. The man is a moron. Somebody should fire him before he destroys something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 The man is a moron. Somebody should fire him before he destroys something. Ooh, ooh that smell Can't you smell that smell? Ooh, ooh that smell The smell of [component] death surrounds you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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