Zen Traveler Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I understand there are on-line options for getting DVD-A & SACD's--But Bestbuy and Hastings taking them off their shelves can't be a good thing []. Does anyone have good news to report on these formats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Best Buy may return them to the shelves once they complete the integration of Magnolia hi fi. That's the impression I was given from some of the workers at the local Best Buy that's getting a Magnolia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 1, 2005 Author Share Posted October 1, 2005 Best Buy may return them to the shelves once they complete the integration of Magnolia hi fi. That's the impression I was given from some of the workers at the local Best Buy that's getting a Magnolia. I hope you are right, but I feel that is what they are trained to tell customers who come in looking for discontinued items they bought players for [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Hard to say. The employee I was talking to the most seemed like she knew what she was talking about. She said the current best buy customer doesn't really have any knowledge of SACD and DVDA. But the type of customer that will shop Magnoloia not only knows about hi res, but wants and listens to it. I guess only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 It's happened before, and sadly, may happen again. Multi channel audio may very well end up being a dim, dark, distant memory of what could have been. SACD is still hanging in there just. DVD/A in it's current form is too awkward to use without video. Some manufacturers, including Maratntz, disowned 2 channel a couple of years ago. Marantz has now re-entered the 2 channel arena with some very powerful products in the 2 channel SACD format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Using Best Buy to ascertain the state of audio is akin to judging the state of music by perusing WalMart! Its the lowest common denominator. While not encouraging, I fear we will be stuck with multichannel audio for some time. The majority of studios have invested in it, and I suspect that a determining factor over the long run will be the interoperability and compatibility with existing equipment, which means that Sony has screwed up again! Just like it is increasingly looking that they have done so with the proprietary Blu-Ray. Technical superiority is secondary to the strategic positioning of a product, as they prove over and over again! But as multichannel is far too often not used to recreate 'reality' but simply a make believe ambiance, I question its validity anyway! After all, are they going to use it to recreate a studio session with players laying down tracks at differing times in differing isolation booths?[] And if it is to recreate a live experience, from what position do we choose to make the point of reference? One wonders exactly what their purpose is! And perhaps that is the real issue with multichannel audio! Just exactly what does it add to the experience!? I don't think anyone has figured this out![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 ...are they going to use it to recreate a studio session with players laying down tracks at differing times in differing isolation booths?[] And if it is to recreate a live experience, from what position do we choose to make the point of reference... Just exactly what does it add to the experience!? I don't think anyone has figured this out![] Fair enough comment, dragonfyr. Multichannel has never had a chance to work out it's place in the grand scheme of things. Early stereo was subjected to all sorts of interpretions. Even now I don't know what to expect when I place a new album on the platter... ping pong, or subtle, room filling ambience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 2, 2005 Author Share Posted October 2, 2005 I prefer multichannel media to 2 channel. My HT collection is composed of 5.1 DVD Movies, concerts videos,(and well made music videos, along with some duds;-) and muti channel music (50/50 sacd's DVD-A), in that order. I am fortunate that I have an "isolation booth" [] that is superb for that media. It would be hard to find (if not impossible) a 2 channel setup to compare for my needs, in my room. I was not using Bestbuy as a gage of quality as much as a barometer of public demand. If you perused bestbuy or Walmart and saw rows of SACD's and DVD-A's, there would be no need for this thread. If the common denominator is people willing to buy 5 (or more speakers) for a medium that required yet another specialized machine to play limited material, (that was never really pushed in the mainstream), then I don't see multichannel music without video going anywhere. I don't think the major players are going to come together and support it. Too many other areas to concentrate for bigger profits. IMHO, the clarity of what little material that is available on mulitchannel is awesome, but I don't see reason for optimism for those of us that like our entertainment experience coming at us from all sides. [:|]FWIW, I also agree with what is happening in the "HD disk" arena. I however, think both formats are going to loose out to ala cart programing (i.e., Satellite, Cable, phone lines, etc.) for movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 i belive your right , TDK...... there's a ton of money behind Time Wiener, and Direct TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 The best place to buy SACDs and DVD-As is online. Both prices and selection are better. An exception is Telarc; they get full retail for their SACDs. Telarc technical quality is top notch, but performances are variable. As long as universal players are munfactured and receivers have i.link, there will be a market for high res. audio. The market will never be big for high res. unless HMDI 1.2 will pass it to your receiver/processor. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 I am familiar with the different outlets both on line and retail. IMO, The pace of new releases has slowed down dramatically. I have a collection of DVD-A/SACD's totaling 40. I bought the majority of these disks when I purchased my Denon about a year ago. Since then It has been hit and miss on recommendations from people on this forum by trying new genre's that weren't Rock and Roll, that I may appreciate. Insofar as Rock is concerned are there any new releases worth mentioning on these formats? How about a re-release, in the last 3 months, of a classic that were well recorded? Just to add another antidote--I am in my local Bestbuys, Tweeters, Hilcrest, among others (and unfortunately Ultimate Electronics) on a regular basis. I have become friends with several people in Tweeter over the years and we were able to share ideas on "Hi-End" electronics. One day several months ago, after being frustrated about buying a highend universal player with no new media available, I posed this question to an empty store (customer-wise) of Tweeter employees: How many of you purchase and play either SACD's or DVD-A's? The answer by the three employees and sales manager? NONE! I have since asked that question of several people that are in the business (sales people) and have yet to find one that listens to multichannel audio at home regularly. I hope I am wrong about my perception regarding multi channel audio, but I don't see the demand or desire in the present formats to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 ...The pace of new releases has slowed down dramatically. ..Insofar as Rock is concerned are there any new releases worth mentioning on these formats? How about a re-release, in the last 3 months, of a classic that were well recorded? How about anything new in 2005 on DVDA or SACD?[:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 If nobody has noticed, like it or not, the entire area of high end audio has been going this way for some time now!! Of course, I am NOT equating multi-channel audio to high-end audio![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 If nobody has noticed, like it or not, the entire area of high end audio has been going this way for some time now!! Of course, I am NOT equating multi-channel audio to high-end audio![] Ouch![:'(] [] Regardless if you think DVD-A/SACD is "high-end" or not, I hope you are right about the industry investing in multichannel formats--I don't see it as a consumer who is interested in these formats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I am just stealing this from the mono thread. But I think the sentiment is appropriate! When someone can define just what is being added by having 3, 5, 50 or 2000 additional channels, I think you can answer the question! But until then, except in a few examples, I seriously question just what multichannel audio adds to the experience!! Certainly not accuracy nor realism![] Not to change the subject, but after two failed attempts at multi-channel music, it seems the engineers still haven't learned what to do when given five channels to play with! At least, not with anything other than classical music. Here is a slightly different take on your observation! There is a third incredibly successful format that absolutely recreates the real experience complete with all of the phase information of the ACTUAL event!. But it is not suited to the norm which is not the faithful recording of a real event but a manufactured image composed of disembodied channels multiplexed to sound AS IF they were all recorded simultaneously in some sort of significant spacial organization! After all, when was the last time you attended a studio recording session! There is NO semblance of imaging to be had from one person in an isolation booth, vocals multi-tracked after the event, and two other parts laid down at another time or, heaven forbid, over the wire from a completely different location! So tell me, just what is the proper imaging of that!? Welcome to the real world of recording! The ITE microphone technique does accurately capture the real event, and the imaging is the most amazing experience I have ever encountered. But its use is limited to very select applications. And unfortunately, I would argue that it has little place in the world of modern music. So, while we can easily complain of failed formats, we still haven't decided exactly what it is we are trying to recreate! As in most cases, we do not want to recreate anything that reflects the real process! So in most cases it is make believe from start to finish! I suggest that we need to re-frame our goal and question before we debate the various resultant answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 ...When someone can define just what is being added by having 3, 5, 50 or 2000 additional channels, I think you can answer the question! But until then, except in a few examples, I seriously question just what multichannel audio adds to the experience!! Certainly not accuracy nor realism![] I think alot of it depends on the disk as far as 5.1 is concerned. I think with the multichannel medium, different producers use the extra channels for different purposes. If the ONLY way to enjoy music is to try and recreate a live event, I much prefer concert DVD's.[] As far as the studio recording of several albums (or CD's) compared to the same (extremely limited) multichannel version, I prefer the SACD/DVD-A--DSOTM & REM greatest hits comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 ITE micing?[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 While I do own some ping pong stuff, some of the finest stereo recordings I own were recorded in the 1950's. For example, Frank Sinatra's 'Where Are You' album with Gorden Jenkins. Actually Frank's 'The Sinatra Christmas Album' from 1957, with the same conductor was pretty good too. Apparently everything was recorded 'live'. Sinatra was mixed front and centre, surrounded by the orchestra. Superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 ITE micing?[:^)] Yes ITE micing. It stands for "In the Ear". The attachment refers to the technique as well. Pulled from an earlier 9.20 post on Hearing Directivity: Don & Carolyn Davis began their research into the response of the ear- more specifically the pinnae. And for a period of about 10 years they accumulates the responses of just about all of us guinea pigs at SynAudCon. And yes, everyone has a unique signature. They utilized the ITE - in the ear - microphone technique that drops a transducer into the pressure zone of the ear drum. In doing so the recording is complete with all of the phase information in the exact form in which it reaches the ear. To make a long story short, the recordings using such techniques are completely 3-Dimensional. They require no special encoding/decoding and you can with simple front and rear 2-channel equipment (a stereo pair in front, and a stereo pair in back, adjusted fro gain so that the rear pair are 'barely' perceptible - in other works you increase the gain until you can just barely tell they are there and then you back it off slightly). Suffice it to say that I have listened to both recordings made from a symphony conductor's 'ears', and also from the FOH mix position at a Grateful Dead Show from when the Dead invited Don & Carolyn out for assistance, and the acuity of the total 360 degree (2 pi steradians => .5 sphere) localization was absolutely astounding - up to and including acoustical cues that literally stimulate your physical response to a recorded comment and tap on the shoulder from behind the person making the recordong that literally caused whoever hears it to immediately turn around and respond as if they were responding to someone real. Spooky to say the least! Amazingly, the only 'commercial' application interest has been from IMAX. But then few outside SynAudCon have ever been privy to experiencing it. There is also an AES preprint available regarding the technique. http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5820 But anyway... Here is another article that briefly makes reference to the technique, and I will try to comb through the 20 years of newsletters and correspondence in an attempt to gather more info about the specific measurements and knowledge gained from the research and I will try to post it here as time permits. The research is both unique and extremely enlightening. Even the House Ear Institute folks were amazed at the results. Yes, the human element is a critical part of the response system. But before anyone rushes to judgment and decides that we should be building systems to correlate to the psychoacoustics, there is more to the puzzle! And for the most part, this is not necessary! But this does introduce another can of worms! And this realm is as fundamentally dependent upon the time domain (if not more so!) as all the other areas of acoustics. Thus, there is not getting away from learning the fundamentals of the time domain. I know folks are tired of hearing it, but the advent of the primacy of the time domain in the field of acoustics is the acoustical equivalent of quantum electrodynamics to the discipline of physics. It is both fundamental and pervasive! NotExactlyOmni_HearingDirectivity.P1.4.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hey! [] Does anyone have news on ANY new Rock and Roll titles available on DVD-A or SACD's! I am looking for some hope from you folks that say this format isn't DOA.[:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.