KLF-20' set to large.

[patmcnevi]

I recelenty got into bass management on my receiver for some odd

reason. I set the KLF-20's on large because they go down to 34 hZ

and am just wondering if that was ok.

Patrick

[rvincerob1]

34HZ? You answered your own question. It is perfectly ok to set your receiver to large. The 20's are a stand alone speaker, so there will be no problem with setting to large. I've owned my speakers for 5 yrs now and I've always put them on the large set ting.

[MrMcGoo]

Patrick,

The large setting is more likely to tax a receiver. It may clip when played loud. Clipping may fry your tweeters. Bass takes much more power.

The KLF-20 is a three way speaker. The bass from the woofers is less likely to cause distortion than in a 2 way, if the amp is up to the task.

The last word is yours; if you like the sound, it's good. My advice is to try both large and small to see which you like best. Large should produce more bass, but it may be less clear. Small may produce less bass (depending on your subwoofer and setup), but tighter bass.

Personally, I like clearer, tighter bass and am willing to give up a bit of volume. Everyone has different taste and that is ok.

Bill

[Zen Traveler]

Welcome to the forum patmcnevi. []

Mr. McGoo is right about damaging your speakers if you experience "clipping." If you have a decent receiver it shouldn't happen though. I have my KLF-20's set to Large, (5.1 configuration) in a 1800 sq. ft room being powered with a Denon 3803 (used to have a Yamaha RXV-800) and have never had a problem. If it were me I would set those bad boys to Large and Rock!

[patmcnevi]

Well I am thinking about getting a new receiver early next year.

I am looking at Harmon Kardon AVR 335 and I heard that H/K receivers

have alot of power to them. I do like them on lage cause they

don't sound as bright as they are on the small setting. I was

doing some a/b comparisions with the large and small settings with some

movies I know and at the large setting the sound seemed more natural

than with the speakers at small. I am also playing with my RC-7

as large right now but that still needs some testing. My receiver

is a Denon AVR-2801

and my sub is a SVS 20-39 PCi. Any other suggestions?

Patrick

[InFlux]

Have you considered making the jump to a separate amp?

Your other option would be to use your pre-outs from your Denon to feed a 2 channel amp more capable of driving the 20's. An amplifier that is stable at lower impedances and has good dampening will do wonders with those 20's.

I recently began experimenting with my 20's. I went from a "100 watt" AV Receiver to an older 150 watt 2 channel unit. It made a pronounced difference in my bass and midbass. My 20's sounded like different speakers.

I'm sure there are many members who could provide recommendations on a good 2 channel unit for this application.

[patmcnevi]

I was thinking about going to seperates a while back but I lost

interest until just recently. I know B&K and Parasound sound

good with Klipsch speakers. Is there any other brands I should be

looking at? If I do get an amp should I get a 5 channel amp for

the center and surrounds, or will the receiver work just fine for those

channels? If the receiver will work fine I still might get a new one

that lets me select the crossover for those channels because the RC-7

still sounds bright.

Patrick

[InFlux]

While the RC7 is a great speaker, it is simply not a match for your Legends.

Been there. Tried that. I worked desperately to match a reference center channel to my legend speakers and was never happy with the results. I have extensive center channel bass management and equalization capability in my receiver, but still had no luck.

Replacing the center channel was an instant fix. There are several C7's on this forum right now.

I'm sure there are some subject matter experts here who will gladly recommend a good pre-amp / amp setups for you...

[Zen Traveler]

I... If the receiver will work fine I still might get a new one that lets me select the crossover for those channels because the RC-7 still sounds bright.

Patrick

Hmmmmm. If you think your RC-7 sounds bright, I don't think being able to adjust the crossover will help. If you aren't happy with the RC-7 (I didn't gather that from your initial post on the other thread) I agree finding a Klf-C7 is the way to go. I own both and never found either being "bright," with my Denons--But that's just my ears.

Without hearing what you are describing first hand, let me put my vote in for you to upgrade your receiver first []

[Yesfan70]

Here's something to try. If you think your RC-7 is too bright compared

to your KLF-20s, then let the 20s play the center channel info (aka a

phantom center)

I have KG5.5s for my mains and had a KV-2 center. A mis-match like

yours, except reversed. My center seemed too dull compared to my mains.

I ran my system without a center until I was able to use the right

center for them. I toed them in for a better effect, but since I'm

usually the only one using the HT, the issue of a small sweet spot was

a non-factor.

Try running your system without a center and see what you think. It

will cost you no money and if you do like it better without the RC-7,

then it will get you by until you can score on a used KLF-C7 center

speaker. Good luck.

[patmcnevi]

I think I will just store the RC-7 until I get a pair of RF-7s which

might be a few years away. I can put my record player in the spot

where the C-7 was. I did toe-in my speakers tonight but I don't

think they are at the same angle. Is there a trick to toe-in my

speakers or should I just have them face forward? Also I did

notice when using the phantom mode that the "center channel" was a half

of a dB louder then the left and right speaker. Is that fine or

is there something I can do to fix that? Thanks for all of the

help.

Patrick

[InFlux]

The goal of toeing-in your speakers is to find the place where the imaging is the best. FWIW - you've probably seen this webpage before (this more relates to speaker placement, but some people may find it helpful):

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html

Here is what I found worked best for my setup:

The angle from the corner of my 20's to my primary listening position is about 25*. I then found the imaging was best when I aimed my left speaker at my left shoulder and my right speaker at my right shoulder. A laser pointer placed along th centerline of the speaker may help.

At that speaker placement and angle, I can close my eyes and pin point each musician on the sound stage. I can typically fool most people into thinking I am playing music w/ suround sound & center channel in my 2 channel (+ sub) mode.

Once you get your speakers placed and toe'd, then set your levels again.

[Zen Traveler]

I think I will just store the RC-7 until I get a pair of RF-7s which might be a few years away. I can put my record player in the spot where the C-7 was. I did toe-in my speakers tonight but I don't think they are at the same angle. Is there a trick to toe-in my speakers or should I just have them face forward? Also I did notice when using the phantom mode that the "center channel" was a half of a dB louder then the left and right speaker. Is that fine or is there something I can do to fix that? Thanks for all of the help.

Patrick

Toe them in so you can see the back of the Horn's throat at the listening position.

[dragonfyr]

The goal of toeing-in your speakers is to find the place where the imaging is the best. FWIW - you've probably seen this webpage before (this more relates to speaker placement, but some people may find it helpful):

On axis polars are always an advantage, but a principle reason for toed speakers in the corner is to reduce the spatial loading from pi steradians (Q=4) along the wall, to pi/2 steradians (Q=8) and to increase the radiation of the same acoustical energy into a smaller space while at the same time creating a better controlled free field projection of such energy, ideally changing the effective relationship from:

Segment of a Sphere C subL (degrees) Q SPL (dB) D subI (dB)

Sphere 360 x 180 deg 1 107.47 0

Hemisphere 180 x 180 2 110.47 3

1/4 Sphere 180 x 90 4 113.47 6

1/8 Sphere (corner) 180 x 45 8 116.47 9

[ajcllc]

I have my speakers all set to 'small' while my sub does the rest of the work. I noticed that the bass is really tight. As far as seperates go, I would like to recommend Sherbourn. I was using a Denon AVR-2802. While the Denon sounded very good, the separates make a great amount of difference. With my preamp/amp combo, I notice how my speakers really sing better and open up. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about my Sherbourn combo.

[patmcnevi]

tkdamerica,

Where is the throat in the horn on the 20's?

agcllc,

Thanks for the reference to the Sherbourn brand. I sent them an

email to see if there are any delears in Minnesota. I have been

also looking at Rotel for a preamp and amp. I did find a local

dealer for them here which is not to far away from me.

If I do get an amp how many wats per channel should I get?

Patrick

[DrWho]

Where is the throat in the horn on the 20's?

If you take the grill off you will see two woofers and then a horn

loaded tweeter. You want to toe-in the speakers so that you can look

down the hole in the middle of the tweeter (this hole is called the

throat).

Btw, even though your mains can play down that low it is typically

better to always run the main speakers as small...The movies were

recorded anticipating this setup and it's usually best to have a single

sound source for the same information (aka, it's better to let your

subwoofer handle the bass than to try and have 3 speakers handling it).

Also, relieving your mains of low frequency duty should also improve

the midrange (by reducing FMD).

[ajcllc]

Patrick,

How big is your room? I know the Sherbourn 7/2100A is 200 watts per channel conservatively. (This is plenty for me in my 14'x14' room.) They also make another 7 channel with lesser watts. Also, some manufacturers have a tendency to be a little under their actual wattage when stating it.

Andy

(ajcllc)

[Zen Traveler]

Btw, even though your mains can play down that low it is typically better to always run the main speakers as small...The movies were recorded anticipating this setup and it's usually best to have a single sound source for the same information (aka, it's better to let your subwoofer handle the bass than to try and have 3 speakers handling it). Also, relieving your mains of low frequency duty should also improve the midrange (by reducing FMD).

After numerous tests done, over a several day period, I always preferred (ALL) my speakers set to large. I then decided to try them on "small" for 3 days to see if I could train my ears to like that setting. The visceral experience for movies just wasn't the same.

The first thing I noticed when I set them back to "large" was that in action movies, tanks, spacecraft, helicopters, targeted explosions, and gunfire sounded more directional and encompassing (i.e., vehicles circling around me or going from left to right). I also think music dvd's and DVD-A/SACD's sounded more dynamic. I also prefer the "Mains + sub," LFE setting, even though most posts I have read discourage this. I realize that my setup isn't your average Klipsch Reference HT [].

BTW, Am I the only one that thinks Patrick should take that RC-7 out of the closet and sell it and buy a KLF-C7? I can't imagine doing without a center channel for YEARS. The only reason I "upgraded" my KLF-20's/C7 in my main HT to RF-7's/RC-7 was because Ultimate Electronics gave me an offer I couldn't refuse when they were trying to steal me away from Tweeter (all I wanted was a RSW-15 [:|]) IMHO, going from Legends to Reference was more of a lateral move than a major upgrade.

[rich0372]

I have klf 30s 20s and 2 c7s for movies I run them on small but cross them over at 50 hrz for 2 channel music I prefer them on large btw when I was just using my reciever and not my amp I allways ran them on small just my 2 cents Rich