Sunfire Theater Grand IV...Pre amp... Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x7

[IndyKlipschFan]

First some background how this all came about..

Some of you may have wondered ( OK for those that care,..,LOL..) why I have been not posting much recently.. I wanted to duplicate the Aragon I have upstairs in my dedicated HT but they are going away.. I love MAC stuff...135 pre amp.. Not so sure about their HT amps.. probably have to go separate stereo and huge $$ involved there... I looked at some others like Rotel, Krell, Bryston, and I have been reading this and other forums for quite some time.. My local dealer had the Sunfire Grand IV pre amp and the Cinema Grand 200 x 7 he wished to install in a HT where the customer backed out of the total price back in March 2005. (customer ran out of $$) The economy and a lot of good gear also available at lower costs this high priced huge features model was collecting dust in his show room. I joked about it since March saying, "You ever gonna get rid of those Sunfire Separates" ..... every time I came into his store...

I think I wore him down....

So, some background

Cotlerphoto1 aka Michael and I drove to near Miami last May to fill in the split la scalas I was missing from an earlier road trip too. My first road trip was to Cleveland, Ohio all from Indianapolis, Indiana in a van..... on a quest for my Audio Nirvana journey for HT. l went, like a lot of you, to the Klipsch weekend here in Indy and after hearing the Klipsch KA 1000 amp with the 2 Klipsch KS THX subs with the La Scalas (Heritage rules!!!) I decided, ok, this solidifies my dream theater.. You only go around once.. Sometimes you just have to do it right and NOT settle for anything else..

I have the Denon 3802..for my downstairs HT... It is a wonderful receiver, when I got it .. it way ahead of it's time.. but this is my HT, the "man cave", the room I built with others with my own 2 hands a love and pain and conquest when done to every night I dreamed of if I do this or that..what will it finally look sound like this too? THIS is what I worked so hard since Jan 2005 to complete,.,. the day lite screen is in, the Infocus 7210 projector up.. (which is awesome..) I have 7 perfectly matched La Scalas I drove all over the country to get .. in a dedicated 17 x 30 HT room.. The speakers got into place..with a LOT of help from some great people on this site.. we hooked up wires.. projector..screen.. HT seats... carpet... it is all done. Other than some room treatment at some point.. Wow, it is done.. I was 100% happy with every purchase. The sound was good on the Denon, but the fact was.... It sounded 'better" upstairs.. I wanted to drag the upstairs stuff downstairs.. but what do I replace it with too?

I took the plunge with Sunfire.. I wanted that big sounstage great dynamics just amazing full Home Theater experience where you just get lost with separates, and with a great amp that is more dynamic, more watts per channel is what I wanted for my HT.

So, I am back to my Dealer again.. asking him about those separates collecting dust in his store... not turned on.. no scratches... If the ultimate receiver is what he mostly sells with Sunfire... Who could afford the Big Boys toys stuff? Again, I think I wore him down. So by now your all figured out... I did it.. How did I do it?? I have sent him a lot of business.. and the fact they were opened out on a show room floor.. if he sells 2-3 of these a year I was in the right place at the right time.. I said ok.. give me a cash price..one time offer that I could get these out of your store.. I know you need to break even or close to it... but they HAVE been here since March.. What could you do? He did the salesman thing where he said I do not know what I even have in them let me see.. As I followed him to his office as he got on his computer. I sat across from him... Of course he said retail.. MSRP which I would not, and really could not afford... afterall this is the end of my HT budget too. Even if you always find things you have to have right.? LOL

So he scribbles some on a pad of paper.. I remind him of the 5 theaters I have brought him as business...in 2005. He smiled, he said well you got me there...some Roger..I gave you a break on the other stuff too..for your HT.. (and he did too..) pause... I guess I owe you or need to help you to finish out your "dream theater"....That's what he calls it too..He was not a huge Klipsch fan in 2004.... He is now a full line dealer and just got approved for Klipsch in 2005. So he stated the price.. Flashback to where you know where the golden rule of sales is.... after the offer is made... the first one that talks... just bought it? I scribbled my own notes.. I looked like it was close to him... but still a little high.. He said look ok.. one time deal.... How about this..."xyz" price... Calm on the outside... inside I was screaming YES!!!!!!! I looked him in the eyes.. shook his hand .. And yes part of me going... OMG, what had I done?? My only thought was, I wanted to take it home. Play with it for 2-3 days..I know La Scalas are very very revealing speakers.... If I was going to spend this much $$ I wanted to know for 100% sure it was a good match... So I asked him that as part of my deal.. If everything is ok.. it is a deal.. He said.. "OK."

I just hooked it up.. the full review will be posted soon. I am as giddy as a kid all over again.. I will say OMG yes it is outstanding.. but you probably already figured that out... Like most on here what do you expect anyone to say after spending big bucks?? LOL.. super clean dynamic as all get out and OMG movies and HDTV is just HUGE big full crisp takes my breath away... OK, more to follow later....

Let's just say this.,., They Hype is true on this Pre amp/ amp combo.. .. The Colts game is on.. I am out of here for now.. To enjoy the game.. HDTV and Klipsch is incredible...

The Sunfire Theater Grand IV...Pre amp... with the Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x7 Is amazing!!

PS Thanks to the ones that encouraged me to "Just do it" on this BB. You know who you are,.,. I can't wait to have you over to see and hear it all too.

[Chris Robinson]

Roger, great, informative post! I am so glad to hear your reaction to the Sunfire amps.

After swapping emails with Mr. Magoo last year, the Sunfire amp is on my short list of acquisitions in 2006. I was planning on using my Denon AVR4800 as the pre- until money was in more abundant supply. But it sounds like you have both ends nailed!

My room dimensions are almost the same as yours ... 30 x 17 x 9. I'll be using the long wall for the front Klipschorn mains, Belle center and Cornwall rears. I'm still trying to figure out what to use for subs, but I'm leaning towards the Klipsch THX-Ultra, SVS PB12-Ultra 2 or Sunfire Signature. I'd love to go for the Klipsch just because I love the brand, and performance-wise I hear it is well matched to Heritage.

Rock on and I look forward to your review of the Sunfire combo, esp. in comparison to your Aragon gear which I know you've loved.

Chris

[Kriton]

Hey,

That is great, I love my setup, you will enjoy the hell of them.

I have not set the SF up with Heritage yet, but that is coming...

Let us know how it goes, and check the firmware on the Sunfire

Preamp to make sure you have the latest firmware...it made a big

difference.

K

[MrMcGoo]

Congrats on the new Sunfire gear.

It will be interesting to read your review of their performance. The bass response and any hum will be high on my list to read about. Sunfire should get all of the dynamics available out of your Klipsch speakers.

Bill

[Speedball]

Good write up Indy,

I bet the Sunfire stuff sounds great..........you should send me a PM so I can visit your dealer sometime.

[rplace]

Getting closer...you still need that Denon 3910![6]

[IndyKlipschFan]

Wow... not only was the Colts game a winner.. Also in High Def..and the sound.. OMG I felt I was there.. Just amazing microphone placements for the game.. I am not kidding, I heard vendors occasionally with cold beer or hotdogs for sale... coming from the surrounds...

Colts win too over Cincinnatti. They are now 10 - 0. It just feels like the dream season to me.. My hopes and wishes for the Colts... Just if your gonna do it.. lose before playoff time AND not in the Superbowl if we get there ok?? I have no idea what would happen if we had a perfect season AND Won the Superbowl from a city / fan perspective how to handle it.. You try, as a fan, not to get too ahead of yourself.... Still!!

I will try and not get too ahead of myself too in the reviews of my gear and give a more detailed review later this week.

But for now.....

A few upgrades in the software? Another good feature I need to look into I guess as well. I had 2 appendix pages in my manual.. You can now boost the Bass to the subs... (something I read was a problem before... possibly? for some subs the Sunfire had a fixed volume or was lower than most Pre Amps.. ) It also has 3 sub outs too? So since the Klipsch sub amp (the KA 1000) has a left and right input..for the subs I used sub one and sub two out of the Sunfire pre amp .. mmm Good clean Bass.. Home Run..

I will say this too.. The amp is warm to the touch even after being on for several hours for the game... Same with the pre amp.. I have only seen 2 movies so far.. the soundstage is HUGE and nothing is even calibrated or dialed in just yet... Movie volumes in the high - 40 on the pre amp are loud n clear.. Just for "giggles and grins" I had it in the mid to high 30's for the Game off and on.. WOW>. Really loud, clean, effortlessly just through your body comfortable...... where you know it is pretty loud you can feel the SPL's too.. But soooo clean through marvelous La Scalas... It does not even bother you. I tell you it is kind of refreshing to the soul. I played a few tunes I know in my head front and back... I have a new Denon dvd player the 2910, and really like it too. The Pink Floyd songs " Us and them" and "Breathe" from the B3 to the Piano to the sax... the over produced backgroud church choir...To gilmores various guitars vocals by both Waters and Gilmore I tell ya, the placement in stereo you would of SWORE the vocalist was RIGHT dead center in front of you..I went 3 times up to see almost in astonshment for sure there was not a center speaker on in stereo... But in my seat I tell you, They just seemed to be there... WOW>>AGAIN>>..

So enough for now.. If any of you have this unit, or know some tips on how to check firmware on the unit, I would welcome it too. I am off to the Sunfire site to see if I can find it myself.

Lots more to fill you in later. Thanks for your comments and input. We all learn from each other on here for sure.

[Petrol]

[]

[IndyKlipschFan]

A smiley face and no comment??

[Bill H.]

Roger,

Once again I can picture your Face- a Huge smile and absolute Nirvana! Congrats you earned it!

[Chris Robinson]

Hey Roger,

Just read your profile and noticed that your upstairs system has your rear surrounds on the floor pointing up. You said that it worked okay ...

I have a similar situation coming in our new family room. The sweet spot will be 2' from the back wall. I've got three alternatives:

(1) Go 5.1 and use two Cornwalls for the rear surrounds, located near the back wall on the sides (at 8 am and 4 pm) pointing to the seating area;

(2) Go 7.1 using (1) above and adding a few down-firing ceiling mounted speakers (which ones I haven't a clue)

(3) Go 7.1 using either (1) above or four of the 525-THX wall mounts along the back.

What would go with and why?

Thanks,

Chris

[IndyKlipschFan]

If your going to go with 7.1 sound use the ones on the floor as your back surrounds as I did.. It works really well. The ONLY caveat is is needs to be a big surround I had the RS 3's and could not hear anything really SPL wise... The RS 7's did the tick and I love it..

As for your sweet spot...crossing at you or behind you is the ideal position... Crossing in front of you is the mistake... because of imaging...

I happen to like here (personal preference too, I admit it...) sounds behind me for the surounds.. Takes me back to my 5.1 days, concerts, When I listen to singers or bands in the audience Even movie houses... Something behind you gives depth. When you have them even with you on the sides... unless, say it is a RS-7 where some in fact IS sprayed behind you, it just isn't the same.... (For me)

So that said... four of the 525-THX wall mounts 2 on the side of your seating position... and 2 along the back. for 7.1.

[Petrol]

A smiley face and no comment??

I was, and for the most part remain fulled with enough envy to be rendered Speechless...

ok, enough of that. I would like to request PICs of your new equipment and a Link so that I can drool all over []

oh, and info regarding your old Denon reciever, should you no longer have need of it...

[BobbyT]

Congrats on an awesome system

[Kriton]

Hey IKF, (and McGoo, if you are following this) -

There have been several threads about bi-wiring speakers lately, the

gist of which has been that it doesn't change the sound to bi-wire.

That being said, the Sunfire is a little different; have either of you

tried the voltage source, current source outputs to bi-wire your

speakers? I know that the manual suggests that you put one source

to the woofers and one to the HF, due to the warmer tube sound

allegedly had through one source with the punch of the solid state

other source? Sounded a little like snake oil, what do you think? I

have read the white papers on this effect, and it sounds marvelously

plausible, but so does 400 continuous watts through 7 channels from a

120 wall outlet, and that just aint right, so...

I have not tried this, was wondering if you had and what you think; does it make a difference at all?

Thanks,

K

[MrMcGoo]

Kriton,

I have my RC-7 biwired to the 405x5 Sunfire amp. The high frequency section is wired to the current terminals and the woofers are wired to the voltage source. It softens the high frequencies a little.

My RF-7s are not bi-wired with the Sunfire 625x2 current taps, because DeanG has rebuilt the crossovers. With the DeanG crossovers, the RF-7s are so smooth that they do not need the help.

Bill

[Kriton]

Mr M,

Thanks for the reply. Is that what I could expect if I

bi-wire? It will tone down the tweets? I have been itching

to try this but I just couldn't get around to spreading that many more

wires around my already infested HT set-up...

How are you liking your DeanG mods, M? I guess I was just too

used to the RF-7's being harsh (which they were), but I miss a little

bit of that sparkle they used to have...is it just me?

You are using two SF amps with your HT set-up? Wow, I am not

utilizing a tenth of the jiuce my 400~7 can put out, I am sure you have

headroom a plenty! One of the things that bugs me with my amp is

that the amber light/gauge on the front of my amp reads all the way to

the right, in other words, I have buried the needle...that is

unsettling. I called the company, when I could actually talk to a

human, which has been difficult at times, and they said it was a joule

meter and was just for show, I could send it in to be recalibrated but

it would cost me, etc etc.

Other than that, the stuff is rock solid and good looking; I just want to make sure I am utilizing it to its full potential.

K

[MrMcGoo]

Kriton,

DeanG started into the crossover business based upon the RF-7 moded crossovers. Now he does a wide range of Klipsch crossovers as does BEC. There was a major improvement in the sound stage and smoothness of the RF-7s. It takes them to the next level.

Heritage may benefit more than Reference on the current outputs due to the higher sensitivity. Speaker wire is cheap in 12 awg brand X. It is worth a try with speakers that have dual terminals.

My Sunfire 405x5 runs at 495 joules on the 500 joule meter. It should read 480 joules. I would NOT worry unless it went beyond 500 joules.

There is a slide switch on the bottom of the amp to turn down the light on the meter. It is less distracting when the light is dimmed a little.

Bill