THX Ultra 2 help please

[rocko]

I recently purchased this setup. 3 of the KL-650 for the front 3,

a pair of the KL-525 for rear surrounds, a pair of KS-525 for side

surrounds and 1 KW-120 powered with the KA-1000 for the sub.

I replaced my RF-7s, RC-7, RS-7 setup with the THX stuff. I am

not sure I am happy with the new stuff just yet. I installed it

myself and used an SPL meter to adjust the level of each speaker, and

adjusted distances in my Denon 4802 to allow for time delay. My

problem is I find myself having to adjust the volume constantly to hear

dialogue and then lower when action happens. I have tried turning

up my center channel slightly but it really isnt solving my over all

problem. I thought adjusting with a meter was the right way of

setting up? If I turn my center up way loud won't that throw the

whole system out of whack?

I have a 65" Toshiba Cinema series TV. At first I had the 2 front

mains exactly next to the TV firing forward. Now I have tried

moving them out from the TV toed in slightly towards the primie

listening position. The center is on top of the TV angled down

towards the listening position. Am I doing something wrong?

Is there more to setting these speakers up then the normal, general

rules? Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. If

room dimensions are needed or are that important I can post them.

Semi small room with the couch about 9-10 feet from TV if that helps.

Thanks

[rplace]

Wow, great set up both before and after. Can't say specifically if the THX system needs any special set up as I have never played with one. With the coin you dropped on that I would expect the dealer to assist you in set up if you need it.

Sounds like you are on the right track using SPL meter and such. Did you double check things like the DSP settings and make sure you are not playing in a Party, Music 6, Stadium or Jazz club setting. I know from time to time I have switched things for music or sports games then thrown in a movie and for a brief moment thought man that is not right.

Welcome to the forum, stick around lots of good info here.

[shane_0_mac]

I listened to a set up much like yours at Stereo One and I was blown away. It must be something in the setup?

Nice System by the way.

[MrMcGoo]

Your receiver or processor should have dynamic range control. It may be called midnight mode for example. This should help with the big swings in volume. THX post processing turns off midnight mode or any dynamic range control.

Bill

[Steve_L]

Rocko, does that Denon have any kind of automated speaker equalization setting functionality? If it does, you might want to start from there and then maybe use the SPL meter for small tweaking.

I'm suspicious of those time delay settings. Room accoustics and associated fixes and positioning to compensate for such are as much art as science. Just because the settings say set it this many clicks for 10 feet, doesn't make it so in a real world listening environment. If the Denon has a built in program, I'd suggest you start there.

If not, perhaps do some "half-way" swings in one direction or another to see if you detect any benefits.

Just a thought. Good luck on all those great speakers. It sounds to me like you've got proper speaker set up, so I'm thinking a bit more experimentation might help you out.

Let us know how you make out.

PS Expensive speaker wire prolly won't make a difference.

[Zen Traveler]

Hey Rocko,

Welcome to the forum. The Klipsch THX line are nice speakers and have sounded really good in the three Home Theaters I have heard them in. That being said I prefer my Reference HT over those systems (posted below). I have the Denon AVR 4802 R and love the receiver. The ability to connect 2 sets of side surrounds is really a cool feature.

I admit I haven't auditioned the THX line in my house, but If I were you I would get back your old system and add another pair of RF-7 towers to use as A surrounds along with your RS-7's as B's surrounds and get a pair of RB-75's as rears in a 9.1 setup. I don't know how a single KW-120 compares to a RSW-15, but the later sure is sweet. []

[rocko]

Thanks for the feedback guys and also thanks for the welcome. The

reason I am not calling my local store is because I am one of those

that likes to figure this sort of stuff out on my own. I love

this hobby and figure the best way to learn is by reading, talking and

experimenting. If someone does it for me I wont have the benifit

of learning.

I will try the suggestions posted here and let yas know =)

[kde]

please post what you discover - I am running the THX with a pioneer elite receiver and haven't had any trouble, but I am sure things could be tweaked...

[westcott]

Just curious.

What made you decide to change to the THX system?

[TheSoundBroker]

First off, welcome to the forum and the Ultra 2 club.

Secondly, your dealer definitely should do the setup for you. I simply

can't let a customer buy a system at that level and not

personally set it up, regardless of where they live. I do deal with

some DIY guys, and at the bare minimum, I'd at least make an

appointment to come out to check things and make sure everything is

operating up to snuff. It pisses me off to know that a system

like that is out there and not sounding right. When I sell an Ultra 2

system, I bring a computerized testing system and a laser alignment

system. I find that, like the pro cinema speakers, the Ultra 2 system

is pretty sensitive to alignment. The Ultra 2's have a tightly

controlled and more limited dispersion

pattern than the Ref series, which is what makes them so good, but this

makes correct aiming more important, particularly in a smaller room.

The Ref 7 system is definitely more forgiving. *Proper* setup will make

the difference between that system sounding "pretty good" and "oh my

god!". The left center and right should all be correctly aimed with a

laser system. They also like to be at the same level if at all

possible. Eyeballing it just isn't good enough, they need to be

right. If your reciever has an auto setup system, definitely use

it...but only after the speakers are all correctly aligned. I also

include a BFD, which makes a very "sub"stantial difference with the

Ultra 2 sub system.

As others suggested, make sure the reciever isn't in a compression mode

(nighttime) mode. Also, double check your polarity to make sure all

three are correctly wired to the correct channels and all are in phase.

Having your center out of phase with the left and rights can give you

some bizarre effects you won't necessarily notice when doing a per

speaker test and alignment. If you happend to have bi-wired the

speakers, make sure both are correctly in phase. I spent about 1/2 an

hour chasing down an alignment problem once only to discover the

bi-wire system was set up with the drivers wired in opposite phase on

the center channel...DOH!

Room acoustics also play a very big part in vocal intelligability. If

your room is small, you may have very strong first reflection points

that should be treated if they haven't been already. If you have an

acoustic treatment package in there, it will need to be re-done. The

primary reflection points are different with the Ultra 2 system versus

the Ref system. Best way to do it is to use a laser that throws an

angle adjustable beam set to the dispersion pattern of the Ultra 2 to

determine things. It blows my mind that people will drop $10K on

a speaker package, and won't spend a few hundred bucks and a bit of

time to get a basic acoustic treatment package. Heck, I often throw it

in for an Ultra 2 system...it really *is* that important.

Last but not least...there is always the possibility the system is too

large for the room. Remember, a good dealer isn't the one who sells you

what you want...a good dealer is one that won't sell you what you want

if it isn't right.

[Guest BobG]

You mentioned that the center channel speaker is on top of the 65" TV and that you sit relatively close. Perhaps the steep rise from the l or r speakers to the center is part of the problem. It is best (as stated above) to have the front speakers as close to the same height as possible. Center on top of TV is typical so you may try raising the L & R temporarily or lowering thecenter just to see if that is part of the problem. One other thought is too much dynamic range rather than too little such as the night mode mentioned earlier. If you are not used to or do not appreciate really wide dynamics, you may be tempted to turn up the center volume during quiet passages and turn it down during loud passages. It's called gain riding and I have seen many people do this. Your speakers are VERY dynamic.