Use mat on acrylic TT platter???

[LarryC]

what is obvious to me, however, is that he has an imbalance in the quality of his vinyl source in comparison to this.

I'm sure that when Paul upgrades his vinyl source, the advantages of his clamp will become obvious.[]

[Parrot]

It would be fun to have some of you golden ear gentlemen involved in a

double blind test with record clamps. This should be easy for you, Max,

since you can hear what color a blank CDR is.

If someone spends a few hundred bucks on a clamp, he's naturally going

to say that he hears a difference, and all his friends will agree (to

his face). But me, I'm just a poor little boy crying that the emperor

has no clothes on. The difference between a $10 clamp and a $600 clamp

is $590.

I am ecstatic that I am not anal about analog. Vinyl is way too flawed

a medium to get overly serious about. (See my "Why LPs suck" thread.)

If I had a $4000 record player, LPs would suck even more, if we can

assume a $4000 record player would be more resolving.

Keep in mind, the clamp's primary purpose is not to flatten warped

records. If a clamp can, as has been claimed, tighten up bass, then I'm

conjecturing that Mobile may prefer no clamp because it fits in well

with the loose, flabby Moondogesque bass he has acclimated his ears to.

[thebes]

Thanks Paul, It helps clarify things for me and the link to the "mat"

page was very interesting. I think I'll brew up a cork one and

give it a whirl.

Mobile, my apologies if I misunderstood your meaning. My Rega

didn't come with any kind of mat so I din't realize that Rega provided

mats to go on their glass platters. I'm still unclear though if

there is some kind of specific reasoning behind using glass as opposed

to metal etc.

Also Mobile, do you still have a Hickok 600a tube tester? I just

acquired one and have a couple of questions about using it.

Max, thanks for filling me in on the ring. I'm still very much up

in the air about vinyl versus cd's so I think I'll stick with what I

have for now and get into the upgrade bug on TT's if I find myself

playing more vinyl than cd's.

[ben.]

Even disregarding anecdotal evidence, it only stands to reason that a mechanical medium of microscopic scale would be easily affected by such things as mats, clamps and bases.

Some folks like the way vinyl sounds; some like it because they are cheapskates. It's not at all surprising to me that people who actually like the way it sounds are more finely attuned to subtle differences in playback than those who view the medium as a way to save money or simply to acquire out of print recordings.

[Parrot]

Paul probably isnt as good a tennis player as my mom.

Maybe not, but you'd have her decked out with an all-graphite racket whereas I'd be using my old warped wooden one from 1972.

[Parrot]

Some folks like the way vinyl sounds; some like it

because they are cheapskates. It's not at all surprising to me

that people who actually like the way it sounds are more finely attuned

to subtle differences in playback than those who view the medium as a

way to save money or simply to acquire out of print recordings.

Good points. I picked up four LPs today at the Salvation Army @ 59

cents, including a still sealed Tchaikovsky 5/Stokowski. That made me

happy. I guess I'm just like my buddy Allan Songer and care more about

the music than I do in obsessing over such trivial matters as what

clamp is better, if any.

[mobile homeless]

Mobile, my apologies if I misunderstood your meaning. My Rega didn't come with any kind of mat so I din't realize that Rega provided mats to go on their glass platters. I'm still unclear though if there is some kind of specific reasoning behind using glass as opposed to metal etc. Also Mobile, do you still have a Hickok 600a tube tester? I just acquired one and have a couple of questions about using it.

No apologies necessary, Thebes. The Rega should have come stock with a felt mat. I assume you got yours used so the mat must have been lost. What mat have you been using with it? As for glass, it's a very cheap way to get a nice weighted platter at their needed thickness that supposedly does not ring and has good rotational inertia. and can be made to exacting specs. etc. There is debate on whether a glass platter is positive. Most dont use this but it's a staple in some of the mid-range tables.

The Ringmat has gotten good comments. That Analog Dept's mat page is surely an interesting source to save some ducats. That's been a good site for upgraders. See their info on wall stands as well. BTW, you CAN get an acrylic Platter for the Planar 3 as an upgrade which I just saw today. Hadnt heard about it. Some seemed to like it, others said to stay with the glass. I personally would stay with the glass for now till you get a handle on what you want. Changing the height of the platter/mat combination will bring VTA issues which with the Rega RB-300 means problems since it's adjustable via the shims. This is a GREAT arm for the ducats though. Invest in the better Counterweight and if you desire, the VTA base adjuster which lets you forget about the shims. I have the RB-300 with the Incognito Wiring upgrade which is another great step up. For now, just enjoy your table but make sure there is SOMETHING there between the glass and vinyl, if only a piece of cut, heavy duty construction paper. There are enough DIY app out there to keep you busy with scissors galore.

Still have the Hickok 600 tube tester here. I also have a pdf file of the manual as well as the tube charts (including the rare tubes chart).

kh

[kev313]

Paul probably isnt as good a tennis player as my mom.

Maybe not, but you'd have her decked out with an all-graphite racket whereas I'd be using my old warped wooden one from 1972.

Yeah...what does it matter, anyway? The racket just hits the ball after all.

[garymd]

"I should also point out that there is nothing wrong inherently with Paul's TT - it is a fine piece of equipment for its money (new - at the price he paid it really is an excellent deal). I think Gary's throw away comment could be interpreted as condescending to the table but I would hope that is not the case.

No Max, that comment wasn't intended to put down the Music Hall at all. I've heard most of the MH line and they're very nice tables for the money.

[ben.]

For what it's worth, I have a donut Non-Felt from that Extremephono guy. On my first-version AR, I liked it better than the stock foam mat (amazingly in perfect condition). IIRC, the bass was more focused and the presentation more open than with the stock mat. Of course, focused bass wasn't one of the table's strengths. VTA difference played a role I'm sure, as my AR has no adjustment available for that, other than messing with the platter suspension. The Non-Felt is a bit thinner than the AR mat.

On my Scout, I was able to adjust VTA to carefully compensate for the difference in platter height. In this case, I thought that the mat offered no benefit in relation to the bare acrylic. 200-500Hz became congested, and the difference was quite pronounced. My wife noticed the difference without difficulty when playing material she is famliliar with. I found it to be less of a problem with many more recent commercially oriented recordings. Those tend to be a bit leaner in that area to begin with.

I haven't played around much with other mats, as I am satisfied with current setup. I do tend to use the standard VPI clamp, and the flatter surface is most beneficial when dealing with average vinyl. Most of the high quality stuff I have is really quite flat, and can do without. I've found that in those cases, I prefer the clamp with the Mc30, and prefer it without when using the Teac. It does depend on my mood and SPL, though.

I also prefer dedicated snow tires; the new Michelin Latitudes offer impressive performance on the Element.

[BillH2121]

Whooooops - I have the Scout too, Ben - looks like maybe I just wasted $45. Dang, I was going to use that $45 to get one of those new-fangled graphite racquets Paul was talking about. My knowledge of things audio may be a little light, but I do know tennis. Paul, if you're content with the old wood stick, I'd certainly be willing to play you for a slight wager - say $45 a set?? Maybe I could recoup my loss and have some left over to buy some of those new yellow tennis balls everyone's talking about - I don't know why anyone would use anything but white........

[ben.]

Listen for yourself and decide, Bill. Just remember to adjust your VTA settings carefully. With your room & system, it may sound better with the mat than without. Of course, there's that whole ear/brain interface that throws a kink into the works as well...

[BillH2121]

Thanks Ben - I'll give it a try and, if no improvement, I don't feel a big loss. BTW, I think I have you to thank along with a few others for pointing me toward the Scout TT earlier this year. It was something in my price range that has worked out beautifully. Also, it is interesting to me that something as minor as putting a mat on a TT platter could generate this much discussion. Thanks alot everyone - its was fun!

[Parrot]

Dang, I was going to use that $45 to get one of

those new-fangled graphite racquets Paul was talking about.

My knowledge of things audio may be a little light, but I do know

tennis. Paul, if you're content with the old wood stick, I'd

certainly be willing to play you for a slight wager - say $45 a

set?? Maybe I could recoup my loss and have some left over to buy

some of those new yellow tennis balls everyone's talking about - I

don't know why anyone would use anything but white........

Sorry, not interested. Maybe you could have a match versus Mobile's mom?

[thebes]

Thanks so much Mobile for clarifying the glass issue for me, very

informative. Yup, I've been playing the records directly on glass

and will throw a rubber mat on, shim VTA until I can do a proper

homebrew felt or cork. Can't wait to see if it makes a

difference. Never heard the "ringing" some refer to, but it does

seems to pick up every rice crispy in the bowl, so maybe this will

quiet things down.

Upgrades to wiring, weight, shim adjuster are down the road at this

point, and are something I previously had learned about on this forum

and I suspect, will eventually get around to. Gotta keep blowing

all my dough on estate sale finds.

Re the Hickok, I'll PM you some questions, I have the manual, good

scroll and the last Hickok settings issued by the manufacturere, but am

confused over some of the settings and the whole bias/english

thing.

Informative, usefull and with a dash of controversy, sound like a nice thread in my book.