MarkF Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 I have an extra pair of ALK crossovers for sale. These are built by Al Klappenberger, totally original and in new condition with all paperwork and testing results. I putchased the extreme slope crossovers for my Klipschorns and use my other pair of ALK crossovers for my LaScalla's. I am asking $400 plus shipping charges. If interested contact me at mflaten@msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Hello MarkF, I might be intersted ! Because i have La-Scala's with the AL-4 crossover. I don't like the AL-4 network at all .... So i went to the Universal network from Al . It has the serienumber 172 A and B and it works great with the K-55X driver . You can drive it with a single ended 2A3 tube with only 3watt. But even with a lot of power you will be amazed. So i am a bit surprised when i see " ALK crossovers - For Sale " But can you tell the version you have ? I mean the crossover between woofer and midrange . It can be 500 ,600 , or 700hz......... Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Bennyboy, The Universal has only one woofer / sqawker crossover frequency, it's 400 Hz. Since it's 1st order (6 dB / octave) which has a very gradual slope the horns it's connected to determine the actual acoustic crossover. That's why it's called the "universal". It works with any of the horn-loaded heritage speakers. That is, all except the Cornwall. BTW: Mark has several of my universal netwroks. I think the set he is selling is number 110 A and B. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mark.AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 I know the universal has one crossover frequency . But i thought he was selling the extreme slope network ? Now i am confused because for the prise i can get a new one from you .... Okay you have changed some parts but am i wrong ?? I am building another set La-Scala's that is why i need a lot of parts. The Bass horn with the "doghouse" is ready but it is still a long way to go... Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Al is now using 2.2uF Kimbers in place of the 2.2uF Hovlands and this is primarily responsible for the reduction in price for a new pair of Universal A's. If you want the Hovlands it adds $44 to the price. Add shipping and you are looking at $490.00. I think $400 shipped is a good/fair price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Not including any of the brass and marble work on mine, I spent about $400 just on the parts to build mine if memory serves me correct. Shipping and handling from several sources adds up quickly. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 "Since it's 1st order (6 dB / octave) which has a very gradual slope the horns it's connected to determine the actual acoustic crossover." If the horn/driver combination is rolling off the response faster than the coil or filter section attached to it than why the gradual slope? I've been thinking about the Klipschorn bottom section and how it takes a nose dive at 400Hz, and I wonder what that inductor is really doing except protecting the K-33 from excessive power. Acoustically, the bass bin rolls off very close to what looks like 18dB/octave. If one is using less than a 100wpc than why the inductor? I'm having similiar thoughts about the squawker - same deal on that one too. Sometimes I wonder if the improvement I hear with the K-400 and our "gradual slope" filters is really due the electrical roll-off. Couldn't it just be due to the reduction in energy from the increased resistance/insertion losses? In other words, the horn is simply throttled back a bit so it doesn't distort as soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 If anyone is interested in splitting the pair, let me know. I only need one for my center LaS. I have a pair on my Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Dean, Remember, PWK was torn between using an inductor in the woofer of the Khorn or running it full range. The AB network used in the Belle ran it full range. I think going to 2nd order helps the phasing a bit but to make any significant difference in the overlap between driver you need extreme-slope networks. 2nd order is supposed to give a 3 dB boost at the crossover, but that's only if the drivers are perfectly phased. In a horn system, they aren't! You really need some sort of network just to keep the amp happy. Without one you would just be connecting everything in parallel. Just hink what 20 Hz would do to a K55 or to a tweeter!Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Sure, I got ya -- but someone might just opine that this is the function of the high pass cap -- to block the low frequencies from getting to the other drivers. This is very difficult for me to say because I know it gives you chest pains -- but the Trachorn sounds incredible to me just run full out. What doesn't work well at all with the K-400/401 seems to work very well with the Trachorn -- and I'm a bit at a loss to explain it. It almost seems as if the better the driver and horn the less help you need from the network. I would love to see you move forward on those TrachCorns, but what I would really like to see is a superior quality mid driver for these speakers. Oh how I would love to hit the lottery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Maybe i am stupid now . But Dean, is it possible to run the trachorn to a frequency of 20 Khz. I have seen a driver from RCF . It is the N-850 for an two way set up . Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkF Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Al is correct the serial numbers of the universal ALK crossovers are 110 A and B and they use the 2.2uF Hovlands capacitors. They are in mint condition, totally stock with all paperwork and testing results from Al. If interested e-mail me at mflaten@msn.com. Price is $400. Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 bump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 "...but the Trachorn sounds incredible to me just run full out."This means I ran it with no bandpass filter -- just a high pass (like the stock Klipsch networks). The Trachorn just doesn't seem to need the help the K-400/K-401 does. Of course now I'm running the JBL 2470's, and since they go out to 12kHz I had to put the bandpass back in. I have no idea how far out the Trachorn goes with a good driver like the one above mounted to it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Because i have La-Scala's with the AL-4 crossover. I don't like the AL-4 network at all .... Hey Benny, Could you elaborate your thoughts and observations about the sound of the AL-4 crossovers? I have them and I think relatively few others do because they are pretty new. I've been thinking these AL-4 sound fine in my new LaScalas, but that's compared to 30 years of listening to my old original Heresys. Are you running the stock set of drivers and horns in your LaScalas? I'm pushing mine with SETs and vinyl source. Should I be considering a crossover upgrade in my future? Thanks, Pauln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Pauln, Buy Mark's old networks. You will NOT regret it! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Pauln, Mine La-Scala's have i bought brand new in 2003 with the k-55 -x (Atlas ) driver and K-77 square magnet tweeter. I did'nt change the drivers and horns. When you are used to Heresy's you have to hear the La-Scala's aren't "right" ! ! Just forget the AL-4 crossover : The crossover between the midrange and tweeter is out of control . It was supposed to be round 4500 but what happened nobody knows ........it is very wild !! The impendance load is another story but your Amp would not be happy. Special when it is a Single Ended amp or any tube amp. The result is a very screaming tweet and the midrange doesn't "open" up the sound . You will miss a lot of detail........... The changes i had with the universal network is a faster Bass response . The midrange is very clear and lot of detail. You wil have a speaker where the Basshorn and squaker and tweet are more working together. That is the most important thing , you can't point out your tweeter . I have seen the network from Dean http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/646356/ShowPost.aspx I like the very massive construction. Even when your speaker is "new" there is always an upgrade . Benny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Okay , just what Al said. Buy them ! ! ! [][] Then play that Band of Gypsy's album........[] Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 "Just forget the AL-4 crossover : The crossover between the midrange and tweeter is out of control . It was supposed to be round 4500 but what happened nobody knows ........it is very wild !!" The impendance load is another story but your Amp would not be happy. Special when it is a Single Ended amp or any tube amp. The result is a very screaming tweet and the midrange doesn't "open" up the sound . You will miss a lot of detail........... I have to ask, where do you get your information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 Hello Dean, From mine hearing ??....háhaháha.... I have one record on LP and CD . For some reason it became mine own reference. I have listened to the record for 27 years. The measurements were for me the proof why that record was a mess. Because i have one of the first series with the AL-4 crossover . Maybe i have got an "experiment ". At least it look like a prototype......... Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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