LebanonKlipschFan Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I am curious how people continually buy products on ebay despite the fact the 99% of the time the product even new has no warranty and those buyers are supporting people who buy gray market goods and then resell to make a profit by bypassing the supply chain the manufacturer has INTENTIONALLY set up to best serve the product. My question is Does anyone car anymore about how much work it takes to engineer/develop/design/build/market a product and then see consumers screw them by purchasing gray market from Ebay or online...WHY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zklemmer Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 1. Price 2. No sales tax 3. These things are reliable - I've never had a warranty issue with quality hi-fi gear. 4. There's always a market for stuff - why should I add the cost of overhead taxes and insurance that retail business have to cover? Just my 2 cents... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LebanonKlipschFan Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 maybe because the companies chose that retailer for a reason, and the other person was not? Does no one in this country value service, and trust? I am just trying to understand these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Robin Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 The maufacturer got his money once they left the factory; the retailer is the one who is not making much money but is moving merchandise. The manufacturer is off the hook for any kind of warranty. As long as he is making a good product he will get a good rep. And more sales down the road. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmdridq Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Yeah, kj5dj is right. The B&M retailer and the buyer are the only ones that may be getting screwed. If someone is buying gray market without a warranty they better be getting a great price or they're pretty stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 All about the MONEY.... people in general like to pay less for anything.... they also like to brag about the DEAL they got for whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Lets not leave the manufactureres blaimless. They often will turn a blind eye to grey market goods. It is also easy to track where a grey market product came from by tracking SNs. Manufacturers make their money no matter where it is sold, and legally there is not much they can do. Most manufacturers will not cancel contracts with dealers and distributors that sell a good amount of product because they dabble in a bit of grey market. It depends on how big you are. In Canada for example, much of what Costco sells is grey market! They buy in bulk from Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic etc in the US and ship it up to Canada, circumventing the Canadian distribution. Everyone knows it, at least Costco is upfront and covers the warranty itself. Do you think that Pioneer will cut Costco off? Come on! Money Talks! They structure of discounts, incentives, end of year rebates also encourages dealers to buy more than they can sell in order to get the discounts and rebates, but then sell of excess thru grey market. Hey, it is anothe form of price competition that keeps everyone honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LebanonKlipschFan Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 how is dishonest selling keeping manufactures honest. And in case you havent noticed, companies like klipsch, denon, paradigm, jl audio, kenwood, boston acoustics, have all signed on with net enforcers to track such products, and klipsch and jl audio alone have cut off probably 10-15 million dollars a year worth of dealers in the last 24 months, they would not do this is if it helped the company.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I was talking abou the big boys. Yes the smaller companies like Klipsch, Paradigm etc. really try hard to controll distribution in order to maintain a good level of service etc. However, the big boys like Sony, Panasonic, etc dont care that much who sells it. All they want is mass distribution in an all out market share war with each other and the rising Chineese brands. Sony sells products thru Costco and national grocery store chains at deep discounts and are resold at prices that are a few percentage points above wholesale. These places just move product with no service or knowledgeable staff and clearly undercut the local specialty store. What is the difference between that and buying a Sony DVD player via a greymarket internet store? And, when it really comes down to it, what is the difference between these and Best Buy? The whole aim is to sell volume and win the market share war. Every try to bring a product back to Best Buy after the warranty is out? What after sales service. All they do is refer you to the nearest authorized service center. Even Paradigm is after market share and will not close down stores that keep minimal, if no inventory, and therefore can afford to sell at very very low markups. I constantly had to deal with competition from a store 20 miles away that did just that! My complaints where not listened too. I try to find a reason behind grey market. It is easy to blame the grey marketeer, but there is always an underlying cause. When the consumer no longer sees the value of a full priced specialty store, AND the company has not been properly taking care of its distribution chain, then these things happen! Companies like Klipsch are stuck in the middle. They want to have good support from specialty dealers, but also need large scale distribution thru national chains. Then for the christmas sale, the national chain wants a special deal: We will buy 1000 pairs of speakers in one shot, but give us an extra 10% off. Klipsch knows it gonna be for a boxing day gate crasher and will be on sale at almost cost, or be part of a deep discount HT setup with receiver etc. They have no choice, because if they say no, the chain will go to their competitor. The small store gets the same offer via emai, and knows darn well that he is not gonna make a penny on Klipsch speakers this christmas unless he can buy at the same price. So he buys the minimum to get a reasonable price break. He knows he cannot sell em all, so he passes some to the grey market. But at least he can still make some profit on the ones he does sell. Who'se fault is this? Why is the small dealer behaving that way? Every time the wholesaler does something like this he erodes the loyalty of the small dealer. The grey market is there only because the small guys are trying to make a buck in an ever more competitive market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LebanonKlipschFan Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 I am sorry but any dealer who violates his reatiler agreement for a company is absolute scum. They are illegally disregarding the manufacturer who signed them on to faithfullly, and legally sell their product, ruining the market, lowering the actual value of the product, and therefore lowering expectations for the quality for the product. There is a distribution channel for a reason and anyone who knowingly bypasses that should be shut down. I would like to know what someone who works for Klipsch, Sony etc. truly thinks about this subject. If the little guy doesnt like the way things are done in respects to special purchase deals, then they should get out of the business, because you cannot tell me they dont know thats how it is coming into the business. They know the risks of opening a business and they know the risks of being in the market where they are. If you own a business and sell to gray market sellers, i wish you nothing but bad luck because you are immoral and untrustworthy, and shold have every product pulled from you and shit down. You know the risks, you lied, and cheated. Last i checked people were not supposed to rationalise something thats morally wrong, and legally wrong, because they feel like it. If that is the case why cant we do what every we want when we want since the rules dont apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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