Champagne taste beer budget Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I started to post this in general hoping to get more views, but figured I'd go with this first and see what happens. What is the difference between SCSI and SATA, and why does it matter to me? I am looking at buying a new server for the shop soon, have been recommended an HP ML110 G3 with SATA. That same machine can also be set up with SCSI. I have NO idea why I would want one over the other, please advise. TIA. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 They're basically different interfaces for a hard drive. IDE would be another (slower) one which you may be familiar with. SCSI drives are generally faster & more expensive. I haven't really kept up on it, but last I knew the SATA drives were fairly close to the speed of the SCSI drives. The big advantage to SATA drives is the lower cost. For example on newegg a 74gb SCSI drive goes for about $180, where you can get a 120gb SATA drive for $85. Which is better really depends on what you're using the server for. If you're running a webserver that's going to get a ton of traffic, then SCSI is probably a better option. On the other hand, if it's a webserver with fairly light traffic or a file server for a small office SATA should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Thanks Shade, very clear answer. It's for a small office/business, server and three workstations running a fairly straightforward shop management program and Quickbooks Pro. Looking at an HP Proliant ML110 G3 with twin 80G SATA hard drives. They are offered with SCSI drives also, wasn't sure why I would want one over the other, now I know. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I started to post this in general hoping to get more views, but figured I'd go with this first and see what happens. What is the difference between SCSI and SATA, and why does it matter to me? I am looking at buying a new server for the shop soon, have been recommended an HP ML110 G3 with SATA. That same machine can also be set up with SCSI. I have NO idea why I would want one over the other, please advise. TIA. Craig SCSI drives are designed for HD Server operation (i.e. servers that get hit/acessed frequently and by multiple users simultaneously), while SATA, or ATA drives are more intended for std. PC usage. If your server is used in a small office application (approx. 50 users) you can easily get away with the less expensive SATA drives. Get the 10,000 raptors, they're screaming fast. Visit Toms Hot Hardware database for all the info you'll ever want to know about PC hardware.... http://www.tomshardware.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 I now know more about drives than I ever hoped I needed to, but glad I do. If I was building these puters I'd probably look at bigger/better/faster drives, but getting some off the shelf stuff from HP. Not slow drives, upgrading some, but not trying to go crazy either. I haven't ever had a game on any of my puters here or at home, so blinding fast graphics isn't that important, just quick and stable. Critical for the business application that it works at all times if I want to be in business. Thanks for the education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 There are pros and cons to everyone. The raptors are 10000 rpm speed but are noisier. Though they have a 5 year warantee and a 100000 hour mean time before failure, designed for servers. Seagate has a 5 year warantee, and when I worked at the apple store, all the technicians (mac genui) swear by it. Then again sata and ide are really no different maybe 10 dollars difference, but for sata you need a motherboard that supports it or then you need to buy a pci card that will deciepher it (50 dollars or so) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 The SATA drives are cheaper per GB and todays best SATA drives from Western Digital are almost as fast as SCSI 10000RPM drives. For example the WD Raptor line spin at 10000RPM and have blazing access times as well as high sustained transfer rates. The other SATA drives spin at 7200RPM,here Western Digital RE edition drives would be your best safe bets.Seagate has fallen alot ,thier drives fail more than before(EIDE,SATA or SCSI). For the very fastets drives nothing using the SATA interface matches a 15000RPM Maxtor drive,these are close to 100MB/sec sustained rates for ONE drive! Going SATA the Raptor line is the toughest and fastest going.For large capacity the WD RE edition are still plenty fast and fail very rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 you really know how to push western digital.... yet there are more problems with that company then seagate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 you really know how to push western digital.... yet there are more problems with that company then seagate. I recommend what gives me less problems and to my customers,I sell,build,configure high end PC's,servers.And I am doing this for over 8 years now.I talk from experience not ME TOO reviews online or opinions given by onions. Seagate drives were the most durable,too many Seagate 10 and 15K SCSI drives failed too soon.And not because of cooling,as they are in made for the task hot swap,heatsink type slide mounts with Delta fans(hot swapable to boot) making sure they stay cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I am talking about experience but not scsi hard drives but standard since scsi are not commonly used in pc computers....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I am talking about experience but not scsi hard drives but standard since scsi are not commonly used in pc computers....... The little people(makes me feel like a big person)use ATA and SATA,a fact. I use mostly SCSI drives. The most trouble free hard drives made right now,sold right now are from Western Digital RE/Raptor and Hitachi,sorry Seagate comes in third. Per 100 drives sold from Western Digital (keep in mind ...RE series)we have maybe 1 defective(so far).Hitachi per 100 units sold 4-5 drives,still very good.Seagate taking SCSI and non SCSI(ATA and SATA)...a solid 10 defects. The worst brands are Maxtor(the non SCSI ones) and Fujitsu,terrible and I do not even want to touch these with a 6 foot stick. Maxtor's SCSI drives are very solid and many work non stop in servers for 6-7 years before replacement.Considering the intensive read/write and non stop use this is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 well if you like paying 3-5 dollars per gigabyte..... I cannot justify that I like to keep under the dollar hell under 50 cents per gigabyte I'll stick with sata and ide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Well, well, well... I step away from this thread for a few days and look what happens, you'd think I'd asked why my SS smp makes my Juicy pre sound more like my Carver Sonic Holography pre than my Jolida amp make my Carver pre sound like my Juicy preamp!?!?!? Did I lose ya there? Good. Mr Ear, I know you're in the biz, but that should only make you more aware of why I am looking at twin 80GB SATA drives on my server. I don't need the latest/greatest/biggest/fastest, I just need something that's not s l o w and that is granite stable. Think of me as just buying a daily driver, not someone who wants to do an Autocross on the weekends. I don't need nanosecond response times; I'm just looking forward to not having to swap out DVD's to access different parts of a program!! (In all fairness, that's for my Alldata repair info, which is 10 full DVD's, not for my shop management program.) My hardware/software guy tells me I need Ultra ATA100 drives to work with the puters I'm getting, that's fine with me. Current configurations: Server: 3.0GHz Pentium 4, 80GB 7200 RPM SATA x 2, 1 MB RAM Workstation 1: Celeron 2.53 GHz, 40 GB HD, 512 RAM Workstation 2: Celeron 2.53 GHz, 40 GB HD and 250 GB HD. 512 RAM, Performance Workstation: (For home to tie into these at the shop) 3.0GHz Pentium 4, 80GBHD, 1GB RAM Right now, everything is SKU'd as above, I simply need to find/purchase/have on site at install time the additional 250GB internal drive for station #2. I was on the phone with him tonight about getting all our Alldata info onto a hard drive, which is the 250G station #2, just now thinking that for the price I should upgrade the home one to that also. Never thought about having that much room, but for the price, it eliminates any memory concerns for a home computer. Opinions, options, questions, awsh!ts and attaboys all expected and welcome. Thanks for coming, have a good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Looks like a pretty good setup for your servers & workstations. If your're still deciding where to get the 250 GB drives, check out newegg.com. They have 250GB Western Digital ATA100 drives starting around $90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 No Mr Beer Taste Beer Budget you did not lose me in your atempt. [] I stated facts and stand by them.You want to go SATA or IDE fine,just stay away from Maxtor and Fujitsu hard drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Just a question Arthur ,? I never looked into it myself but ,Why did Quantum sell out.I have had a couple drives from them for years with no problems.And others that own them are having good use with them as well,They are excellent, fast and silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facemouth Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 For what it's worth here is my opinion. Currently I have 2 Seagate Barracuda's 10k SCSI and a single WD Raptor !0k. The Sata drives are much more quiet than the SCSi, on the other hand I bought bot SCSI (refurbed) from Overstock.com, just make sure there is an adapter included for a drive you might want. These drives cost me $50 a piece, and luckily I got a scsi card for free, wish I had a raid card though. The Raptor of course costs around $150. More info. about the Raptor, it is hot swappable, it also has NCQ (native command queing), which is basically TCQ (Tagged Command Queing) which is part of most SCSI drives. The only resaon I have all the drives in a single PC is that I occasionally attempt modifactions to my pc's or cases which result in destruction, I guess I just have to learn the hard way,, lol. Personally I prefer buying refurb (aside from MOBO) because there is aways manufacturer warranties. The first Raptor I got had a head crash and it was extremely easy to get a replacement. Hope this helps a bit, and NewEgg is definetely a great place to buy from. I have bout 90% of my PC equipment from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Just a question Arthur ,? I never looked into it myself but ,Why did Quantum sell out.I have had a couple drives from them for years with no problems.And others that own them are having good use with them as well,They are excellent, fast and silent. Quantum was starting to feel the heat from the competitors and they had many failing drives,thier last generation was failing at an alarming rate! Quantum made some of the most solid and speedy IDE drives back when the FIREBALL series where the top sellers. Often these workhorses work to this day! Quantum's SCSI drives remained solid,I have two 10K 74GB drives from my then speedy P3 PC.They still work great and no bad sectors to report. On another note I woul;d not buy any refurb hard drives unless heavy discounts would drop the price to under a quarter of the going selling price.Refurb drives are often nothing more then drives that are RECERTIFIEd by hiding the defective sectors with utilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I have used both SCSI and SATA 150, 300 drives. SCSI drives are generally more reliable. Drive reliability varies in different batches, different models, different years, different brands. I have had Seagate, Western Digital, IBM, Quantum and Maxtor drives fail. Most SCSI drives have a 5 year warranty. Hitachi bought all of the "failing" IBM SCSI drives (parts made in Hungary)of which I had 2 fail. Repaired one (still in use) and gave one away. I have 2 fujitsu drives that are running fine. Seagate used to have a sector fail problem and would give you a hard time about repairing it. Had 2 Western Digital failures, 1 Quantum, and 1 Medea SCSI array. Had 1 Maxtor IDE 300 gig drive which had a conflict with the Plextor 716A burner. Gave that one to my guru buddy and it worked fine for him. SCSI can sometimes be a real pain to set up as if they are not terminated properly you don't boot up. The SCSI cables are extremely expensive as are the terminations (65.00 each) Some of the 300 SATA setups are really jerky but the cables are cheapo maximo. You can put 4 of them in an array if you have the room in your machine and the proper motherboard connections. But always remember depending on your setup if one drive fails you loose big time unless you have backup or you mirror it. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yank_in_oz Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 SCSI, too expensive and slow. get SATA raid but don't use the piece of shit on board controllers get a 3ware card. i crush the perfomance benchmarks on any SCSI system. get the fastest spinning SATA with the biggest cache you can afford. priority is on cache then rpm's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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