My latest addition!!

[Mike Lindsey]

A little background first:

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It all started a couple of months ago when Allan posted a link to someone in Germany selling a bunch of Denon DL-103 cartridges. The guy was asking $160 shipped (you can now get em for $148 shipped), and I thought what the hell?! I would slap it on my Dual and see what all the fuss is about. Of course I would first have to send the BBX off to Mark to get the Cream option added, but I was gonna do that anyway, right (telling myself this under my breath)? BTW, thanks Mark!

Of course after pulling the trigger on the cartridge I found out it would not be a good match for the tonearm on the Dual CS-5000. You see, it is a higher mass cartridge (8.5g vs 4.5g) and has a much lower compliance (they advertise 5 at 100hz, and Max figures around 8 or 9 at 10hz), so it requires a higher mass tonearm.

I had remembered Allan saying that the SME 3009/3012 tonearms were a great arm for the Denon DL-103, and that the older Thorens tables were a good match for that tonearm (see where this is headed?). So, I started looking for a nice TD-125 with an SME arm, and passed on a couple that I probably shouldnt have. My original budget was around $450 and the 2 in question were right in line with that figure. Still, I ended up passing on them both.

At the same time, I was also keeping my eye out for a TD-124. I had been doing a lot of reading on the Thorens tables, and knew the TD-124 was the one I secretly wanted most. I knew it was hand built form the late 50s to late 60s, and has a massive motor that drives a massive metal platter. I also knew Allan had one of these tables mounted to a heavy plinth with an SME 3012/Ortofon SPU and loved it!

So, wouldnt you know it, about a week later I see a beautiful Thorens TD-124 being advertised on eBay, and it belonged to a fellow named Jean Nantais, but was being sold by one of his friends. The seller pointed me to the longest running thread on audiogon that was started by Jean (Building high-end tables cheap at Home Depot):

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1075644493&read&keyw&jean+nantais&&st0

Jean uses the Lenco table in this thread for his build-up (cheaper than the Thorens TD-124), but I was amazed by the number of people who preferred this idler-wheel table to the much more expensive belt driven tables that are being made today. To say the least I was intrigued by it all. I showed Allan the link to the turntable for sale and he told me the plinth alone was worth $1K. Knowing that I knew my budget was going to be shot to hell on this one.

I came to find out that the reserve on the table (no tonearm mind you) was $1700! I tried reasoning with myself that I really didnt need to be spending this kind of money on a table that had no arm, and that I had never even heard before. I put in a snipe bid of $1201 knowing that it wouldnt be enough to meet reserve, and figured it wouldnt be enough to be high bidder either. As it turned out I was the highest bidder and it took my max bid to get there.

I got a call the next morning from the seller saying I was the high bidder and asking if I was still interested in the table. I told him I was but not at the reserve price. We met somewhere around halfway and I ended up buying the table with 2 tonearm boards. I was going to find a SME 3009 to mount the Denon on, and will eventually buy a SME 3012 with the Ortofon SPU cartridge for the other armboard.

As it turned out within a week I was able to score a very nice SME 3009 from a fellow in England and I now had all my parts. Or so I thought. [] While trying to afix the cartridge to the headshell I inadvertantly pulled one of the crimps off one of the wire leads, and ordered another set from Flatearth audio. After waiting a week I come to find out that the shipment was damaged (not sure if I believe that or not) so I had a set overnighted from Needle Doctor, along with some Vibrapods.

Finally, I was able to install the cartridge, dial in the tonearm, getting familiar with everything about the arm, taking my time and getting everything just right. I spent 2 hours doing this but felt it was finally ready. I get everything hooked up to the BBX and put on the Hi Fi News test record to make sure everything is dialed in. Drop the needle onto the record and all I hear is hum. []

I double-check everything. Rechecked the wiring from the cartridge to the headshell. I call Scott (Scott0527) and ask him to tell me how his cartidge/headshell are wired, and he emails me a pic of his, and mine is identical. I knew it was a grounding issue but couldnt understand where I went wrong. There is a ground wire coming off the tonearm that is supposed to be ground on the chassis (which I did), and then the other end of that ground wire is supposed to be connected to the preamp (which it was). After talking to Scott, he said it sounds as though it is in some kind of ground loop, so I disconnected the ground from the chassis, and voila! It worked! []

I spent about 30 minutes with the test record and everything was almost dead on! I then proceeded to play Jeff Becks Blow By Blow. An album I am intimately familiar with. I have probably played this album 100 times and felt if I was to determine how good this table is, then this album would bear that out for me.

Well? Stunning is all I can say!

I could immediately tell that this table/arm/cart had it, but wouldnt know how to describe what it is that it had. I would like to say a fuller sound with depth, clarity and realism. Being able to focus on one instrument with no effort whatsoever. A much more involving sound than my previous Dual, which was a fine table in its own right. This mind you on a brand new cartridge, which I have been told will really open up after 100 hrs of play.

So, to sum it all up, I couldnt be happier. I realize this cost more than a new VPI Scout/JMW-9 would have cost me, but I think I made the right decision here (I havent heard that combo yet either). I would just like to thank Allan, Paul (Parrot) and Scott for all their help in the purchase and setup of the table. Without your valuable input this wouldnt have happened. Thanks again, guys!

And now a few pics

Mike

[Mike Lindsey]

The SME 3009 tonearm w/Denon DL-103

[Mike Lindsey]

NOSValve VRD's, Juicy Music Audio BlueBerry Xtreme w/Cream and Thorens TD-124/SME 3009 II/Denon DL-103

[Parrot]

I don't want to take any credit for helping Mike set up his great new purchase. My only contribution was in exchanging emails with Mike as we encouraged each other on our purchases of Jean Nantais-built idler-drive turntables.

That is one beautiful classy mother of a plinth, Mike! Didn't you say the whole contraption weighs around 60 pounds?

[jorjen]

Drool....drool! I would love to have that turntable/arm combo in the future.

Are both your armboards the same width, just drilled in different locations for the 3009/3012?

[Mike Lindsey]

Thanks, Mark! I think you just need to get one and experience it for yourself. []

Don't sell yourself short, Paul! Our conversations heightened the excitement of getting these tables! Yeah, mine weighs 55 lbs I believe.

Mike

[Mike Lindsey]

Drool....drool! I would love to have that turntable/arm combo in the future.

Are both your armboards the same width, just drilled in different locations for the 3009/3012?

Yes... I have 2 armboards (the other is raw maple), but they do not come pre-drilled. I drilled this one using the template for the 3009 arm. When I get the 3012 I will drill that one using the 3012 template.

Mike

[Mike Lindsey]

Paul-- You mean you have one of those idlers TOO>??? md

I'll let Paul respond... maybe he'll post some pics. []

[Parrot]

Paul-- You mean you have one of those idlers TOO>??? md

Yes, I bought a souped-up Lenco that was built up by Jean Nantais, the same guy who constructed Mike's Thorens. Mike and I independently became interested in these idler-wheel massive plinth turntables at about the same time, each of us reading the crazily long audiogon thread. I was all set to buy a normal Lenco on eBay (they now go for more like $300 than $100) and then buy an aftermarket arm and work on constructing a plinth myself, which I figured would take me weeks to do. But then the Lenco I got became available on audiogon so I jumped on the opportunity. I don't have the pride of building my own table but there's something to be said about having someone with beaucoup d'experience make it instead.

Nantais's chief love is the Lenco but he also has put the Thorens TD-124 and the Garrard 301 in his plinths and finds them all very close--each maybe slightly better at one thing than the other but all superb. He detests belt-drive turntables, which is a good way to start a controversy since 99% of audiophile turntables nowadays are belt-drive.

Like Mike, I also find it difficult to describe what I'm hearing, but I know I like it. It seems to exude an easy power from it, if I can use the word power to describe a turntable. I don't mean in the sense of blasting music. Maybe like how you can tell a karate champ is highly skilled just in the way he carries himself when he walks. The music has the proper weight to it, "body and soul" to be poetic about it.

Surprisingly little comes up searching for Lenco on the Klipsch forum. But I did read a post in which Allan said when he heard a Lenco years ago it really sang, and that it does. I can see why Allan champions idler wheel technology--it is really impressive machinery that delivers the goods. Idler wheels have gotten a bad rap for large amounts of rumble but it seems that with proper care and sinking them in a massive plinth, that is not a problem. My Lenco is dead silent, not even a hint of a mist of a trace of rumble.

Anyway, back to Mike's Thorens.

[lwhaples]

Mike, Looks nice! Very good read also,Thanks for sharing. I was

wondering what was up over the last few days. Been waiting for your

reveiw. Looks like it was all worth it.

Larry

[capo72]

Glad to finally see the pics of your TD-124 with the big plinth. I'm thinking of building a larger plinth for my 124. I'm also looking into the SME 3009. Glad you like it. I'm wondering how the SME 3009 will work with my Shure V15 II cart.

How is your plinth constructed? Is it laminated plywood or MDF? I was thinking of laminating MDF to add mass, then capping the sides with a solid hardwood, or maybe an exotic veneer. You have my dream set up in the BB Extreme and VRD's. Good luck to you.

Jeremy

[Allan Songer]

Thanks Paul - great looking job he did on that one too. looks like I'll have to do some experimenting with one of these old "washing machines" to see what gives. So far, I'm hard pressed to rationalize how they could work so well, but hey, I've been surprised by other things too. md

Mark--I was a devoted Linn LP12 owner until I bought my TD-124 on a lark for half-of-nothing and started fooling with it. I only wish the famous Audiogon thread was around when I was playing with the Thorens in the early 90's!! Still, I came up with my own tweaks that are very similar: REPLACE every bit of rubber you can, build a massive plinth (mine is solid maple and HEAVY--most tweakers today are using void-free plywood--and put the plinth/table on an equally massive STAND (mine is a custom-made steel stand with 2" dia. legs filled with steel shot). I also think these tables benefit from a sandbox/air bladded isolation device as well.

I wouldn't trade my "old washing machine" for any $10,000 table you could name(unless I could take the cash, that is).

And once you listen to one of these with an Ortofon SPU--well, then you REALLY on to something!

These tables deliver the goods, plain and simple--they make music sound right.

Paul-- WELCOME ABOARD! It wasn't that long ago that you were making dismissive comments on this board about these WONDERFUL tables!! It's nice to see you come around!!!

[NOSValves]

can we get a group hug [{][}]

[Mike Lindsey]

Glad to finally see the pics of your TD-124 with the big plinth. I'm thinking of building a larger plinth for my 124. I'm also looking into the SME 3009. Glad you like it. I'm wondering how the SME 3009 will work with my Shure V15 II cart.

How is your plinth constructed? Is it laminated plywood or MDF? I was thinking of laminating MDF to add mass, then capping the sides with a solid hardwood, or maybe an exotic veneer. You have my dream set up in the BB Extreme and VRD's. Good luck to you.

Jeremy

I believe the Shure V15's go much better with the Rega tonearms. They have a much higher compliance and need a lower massed arm.

From the seller:

The plinth is a beautiful, simple and modern-looking high-mass constrained layer damping type built of cherry-veneered Russian birch-ply and high-quality MDF, which is extremely neutral and effective. The Russian birch-ply is very dense with no air pockets, and the whole is meticulously clamped together for a perfect marriage of materials.

Each succeeding layer is cut differently, with less material cut away as layer succeeds layer to maximize mass and minimize resonances, and to leave the motor sufficiently well-ventilated for longer life. The plinth was built and finished in a beautiful cherry veneer under Jean Nantaiss direction and with his collaboration by a professional cabinet-maker and musician with experience building guitars.

[Parrot]

Paul-- WELCOME ABOARD! It wasn't that long ago that you were making dismissive comments on this board about these WONDERFUL tables!! It's nice to see you come around!!!

Just one of those rare cases in which I didn't have a clue what I was talking about. You were definitely right.

[Mike Lindsey]

And after the veneer...

[Mike Lindsey]

Paul's table looks very nice indeed. I am sure that it sounds wonderful! Like his, mine is very quiet. Jean likes to take these things apart, and lovingly restores them, cleaning each piece as he goes and re-lubing where required.

I was cranking the Classic reissue of Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade performed by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Fritz Reiner, and it just killed! I must have been enjoying it because my neighbors called to tell me to turn it down. []

Larry - thanks, man! I hope you got your little problems worked out with your BBX. Unlike you, I didn't really have a comparable cartridge to compare the DL-103 with, but it destroys my old table/arm with Shure V15V-MR (in combination with the new table/arm).

Mark - I think you should just get one and be done with it. [] I know Paul has a Music Hall MMF-5/Goldring as well... maybe he will comment on the differences he is hearing.

One more shameless pic... []

Mike

[Parrot]

Mike's plinth has the benefit of a professional cabinet maker being involved. Mine was cut and finished by Jean himself, who will make no claims to being a pro woodworker. You can't see from the picture but mine also is made of six layers: 2 plywood, 2 MDF (the black section) and then 2 more plywood. The black is coated with something, maybe paint and lacquer, so you don't really notice that it is made of two layers. The theory behind the different layers is that, being of different materials, they would not have the same resonances.

The arm is an Audio Technica 1005 and the cartridge is some kind of old, high-end Signet. These were picked by Jean as having good synergy with the Lenco, although he's tried many other arms and cartridge combinations and likes quite a few (and dislikes even more).

With the arm, cartridge, and turntable all being new to me, I can't claim to know what percentage of the end result is due to what, but the overall effect is great. Jean is hugely into describing it as PRaT, and I'm very skeptical of that term, I don't even know that I believe it exists. But I am willing to concede that *something* is happening and that for lack of better terminology, maybe just maybe PRaT can convey what it is to someone.

It's handy to be able to play 45s again without having to take off a platter and reposition a belt. It also plays 16s and 78s. Something very cool is that it can play any speed in between 16 and 78 as well, so if you wanted to speed up or slow down the pitch of something you could.

[Allan Songer]

I've got to shoot a better pic (camera phone!), but here's my 2-armed TD124 again.

The IKEDA 12" has the Ortofon SPU GT and the SME has the Ortofon CG25i mono.

It's SO great having two tonearms!!!

[Parrot]

As far as two arms/cartridges go, one would be optimized for mono. But would this be optimal for mono LPs only, and there would be something else optimal for playing 78s? Or perhaps just quickly swapping out a headshell with a different cartridge attached would do the trick?

How about a shot of the back tonearm underneath the board? How is that attached?