Jubille: some first impressions on sound.

[Coytee]

Although this is premature I thought I'd make a couple comments.

First, about my 'expertise': None, so if ya want wine & cheese, be prepared for beer & bread.

my experience: LaScala owner since 1979, also Khorn owner last 2 years.

Speaker setup: SINGLE speaker, hooked up to Ak K's ESN 600, using the ES600 as a 2 way. tap settings set on X/0 (what ever that does). Equalizer in the tape loop with EVERYTHING from 1,000 hz up, attenuated by about 6db. Straight line reduction. Speaker was hooked up to Peach/dbx BX3 combo. BX3 was bridged to something like 300x2.

I CLEARLY noticed some hiss coming out of the speaker so I simply turned the gain down on the amp. I use to have the gain knob about 75% with the Khorns and now it's at roughly 50%. though I didn't stick my head in the speaker, I didn't hear any hiss at sitting position. (how many of you guys stick your ear NEAR the speaker, verses sticking your head IN the speaker??)

Mike & I are still waiting on our EV crossovers so we can't give a good stereo listening report. I hooked a single speaker up as per above and sat there.

Lemme ask you Heritage guys, you know what I mean when I say a Khorn plays "BIG"??

(patiently waits as they all nod their heads yes...)

ok, well... this is frigging HUGE and as I think Mike said, effortless. On way home from the gathering in Hope, Mike tried to explain to me some of the benefits of single point source sound, well built 2 way over 3 way, time alignment...

I'm finally starting to get it, though barely as it's new to me.

I'm not eloquent enough to express into words but the sound of that (admittedly huge) top horn is great. I know I'm still not listening to full potential but I already like it more than the Khorns. After the birthday party we had last night I got a chance to turn up some Supertramp (live in Paris)

Again, it was single speaker only, set in mono. It's been suggested to me I not CRANK them using this network just to be safe. I guess we now need to define crank? [6]

BIG sound. I finally began to understand a bit what Mike was saying about fewer drivers and coherent sound.

This thing is definately bigger sounding than my ex-Khorns (sorry Mark, not a slam [A]) They are effortless and speak with serious authority.

I guess I could best try to put it into words this way... if you have a LaScala sitting in a room, and a Khorn sitting in a (good) corner, the Khorn is going to give you something more, something good, something special, something noticable yet perhaps not clearly definable yet palpably there.

I think these are going to spank the Khorns like the Khorns spank the LaScalas (no offense LaScala owners, remember I'm one too for the last 27 or so years).

In fact, I had LaScalas on my mind as I was hearing them. The LaScalas throw their entire presentation forward & at you. I think the Jubilees do the same (or at least similar) thing. Maybe some will think it's a bad, but with those side wings bringing the bass sound around to the front, they seemed more in my face than the Khorn. Yet, when a kick drum was kicked, it just reverberated the walls like the Khorn might. (remember, I wasn't cranking it [6])

I briefly walked around the room & sat on other side (same side of room as the speaker). Mike was right. They keep either all or at least, a lot more of their sound together than the Khorn does. Meaning, I think their sweet spot will be a lot wider & more forgiving.

With my Khorns, I accidently found as I was once going up the stairs that there was a certain spot where their sound seemed different. It is in a straight line from the (left) speaker and probably 30 feet away give/take.

You could stand here and SOMETHING sounded sweeter and more together. I guess some would say the sound had time to melt together as a single front or something??

None the less, I briefly tried that again last night with the Jubilee and given that 10 second trial, I don't think I could tell any change.

Does that mean I might need to now be 50 feet away before it happens or does it mean it happens within the first two feet of coming out of the speaker? I don't know but I WILL be trying that again.

Heck, I also think I'd love to schlep these outside and play them into the same field I put the LaScala in. Oh gads, I think they'd blow it away.

So, there it is, my highly scientific [A], well thought out [A], highly regarded [A] first thoughts of a SINGLE Jubilee using a crossover not designed for it and after jacking the sound around with an equalizer.

Guys... I think it's only going to get better from here!

[]

[boom3]

Thanks for sharing...and you amke me think of skipping over Khorns for Jubs when that time comes...but why are you attenuating everything from 1 KHz up by 6dB? Are you not using a passive crossover to the HF horns?

[Coytee]

Thanks for sharing...and you amke me think of skipping over Khorns for Jubs when that time comes...but why are you attenuating everything from 1 KHz up by 6dB? Are you not using a passive crossover to the HF horns?

I'm using a crossover that is NOT designed for the Jubilees. As such it evidently needs further help. Seems the top end (for me) simply over powers the LF section. I don't remember how far my eq can cut things (12/15 db?) but at one point I had them ALL the way down ( from 1,000 hz up). Even my WIFE asked "where's the bass" lol

The passive I'm using is Al's extreme slope "ESN 600" in a two way format while I'm waiting for the active crossover to arrive.

So all of this is just being cobbed together.

[dbflash]

Richard,

I am so happy for you. Killer speakers and your wife is talking to you.

Can't wait until you get everything set up and you report back.

Oh well I am going back into the music room and listen to my khorns.

danny

[Coytee]

Killer speakers and your wife is talking to you.

I'm not so sure I'd use that phrase...[:$]

[mark1101]

Richard,

Yeah....I guess Khorns are just pieces of junk from the past now that you have the Js. []

Just kidding. I honestly expected to hear that they mop the floor with the Khorns. They should, they better. Least we could expect from PWK after taking 50 years to better the Khorns.

I would expect that the further you could get away from those things, the better they will sound.

Keep the reports coming.[]

[Coytee]

So you do NOT recommend me using them opposing each other as pseudo-headphones???

pfffft!!!

[mas]

I would expect that the further you could get away from those things, the better they will sound.

If I might inquire...

Why would that be?

[Coytee]

I'm only guessing on what the technical answer might be but I'll take a stab at it.

With the Khorn being a 3 way, the sound takes some time (distance?) to "come together" into a single sound wave, so to say. Contrast that with a single point source speaker where there is ONLY 1 point of sound. No blending of drivers needed.

I CAN attest that I loved the sound of my Khorns sitting a bit further away.

I wonder if the Jubilees, since they're a 2 way, come together SOONER (closer) in their sound waves, as opposed to possibly further? (than the Khorn)

Sort of like the single speaker theory?

You technical guys out there reading this hash I'm writing??? either back me up or educate me/us.

[]

[oldbuckster]

Oh you poor fellows, don't have the right cross overs, teasing you with the speakers, then making you wait,.............sounds familiar...............poor fellows, can only play one speaker,...............You guys are worse than kids at Christmas..........Lucky Dawgs.....it will be worth the wait.............you know it...........Calm down,.....deep breath......You will be rewarded with the Best Sound ever...................Lucky Men..............bow wow........

[Guest " "]

Figure 8 and 9 of the AES jubilee article show that at 2 meters, the Jubilee bass horn has approx 3db more low end output than the stock k-horn.

So the attention should continue with the tweeter horn section, phasing, atten, or phasing of any subwoofers also in use, the load of the Jub cab vs the load of the previous k-horns and any associated amp xformer output tap settings. If you are using HT recievers, at the set for large speakers (knock out the sub setting)

As Al pointed out, there are a few correction and equalization circuts added to the Jub passive xover to drain off HF juice.

Wish I had your problems.

KPTKHJKPT402K69A.pdf

[Colin]

My townhouse is so small, I could use Jubilees as headphones if I put one next door at the neighbor on the left and one next door at the neighbor on the right!

nice report, subscribed for more detials...

[DrWho]

Hey Coytee, sounds like you've got a pretty good concept of the "sound

bubble" that Roy always likes to refer to. The more sound sources you

have, the further away you need to be. And you also need to take into

account time-delay effects between the transducers as well as the angle

between the sound sources. The path-length of the Jubilee bass bin is a

bit shorter than the Jubilee and you have a single driver on the

top-end that's a bit "further back" than the squaker and tweeter on the

khorn - the end result being even closer alignment. Due to the size,

I'd say the middle of the Jubilee horn is about the same height

relative to the tweeter on the khorn. So the angle between sources is

going to be about the same.

I'd say the meld point is going to be about 8-10 feet away from the

Jubilees and will definetly be more towards the lower side once you get

that active crossover in there. It's a rather easy thing to test...just

stand directly in front of the speaker and walk back until you hear the

mesh happen. And then report back to see if this guessing is anything close to reality []

[Daddy Dee]

Coytee,

Thanks for the first impressions review. Rings true with what I have heard with a single Jubilee, too. I think the comparison of kicking the sound up a notch from the Khorn is about right in describing it as improvement of similar magnitude as moving from LaScala to Khorn.

I know you've posted on this before, but what did you decide you were going to do in the way of crossovers for these sweethearts?

[Coytee]

Mike: Thanks for confirming my (very basic) understanding.

With that said, here's comment part II

I left work as wife is not home and I wanted to play for a while.

I put the Blue Man Group into the dvd player to watch their live concert. Those of you who have seen it might recall "The Voice"

Oh, I should preface, I looked at my equalizer and I DID have all settings from 1,000 hz UP, knocked down 6 db. Straight line. I wanted to experiment a bit so I knocked them ALL the way down (-12 db). I also looked at next notch UNDER 1,000 and seems it was something like 550.

Remember, I'm using Al's ES600 and I just now took 550 and knocked it down by 12 db on the eq.

Ok, back to "the voice" on the BMG video. The voice of "the Blue God" or whomever he's supposed to be.

The effect was most fascenating to me. He has a DEEP, "Lurch" type voice.

I suppose his voice was right at 550/1000 hz because it literally bounced back/forth from bass bin to full spectrum sound, depending on his voice inflection.

I really think that my knocking the 550hz down -12 db as well as Al's ES network that crosses at 600 had a LOT to do with this.

The voice went from "God like" to about as strong as Don Knotts as "The Nervous man" and it did these changes in stride with the vocals, giving the appearance that the voice had some kind of BIG muffler strapped to it on an intermittent basis.

Clearly, this will clean up when the real networks arrive. Even when this Lurch voice sounded "right", it was still WAY off compared to the Khorns, telling me that these things aren't even in the ballpark, they're just looking at the stadium, ever so patient for their coach (ev) to arrive.

Oh, and I probably don't want to admit that during one of the drum trips (one of many?) I ended up burning the fuse in the ES network [].

Seems it has a 1 1/2 fast blow as I recall. I don't know how that equates with power but what ever that level is, it would seem I surpassed it.

Note to self: no cranking

[Coytee]

I know you've posted on this before, but what did you decide you were going to do in the way of crossovers for these sweethearts?

Both Mike & I decided on the Electro Voice Dx-38 active. The biggest reason I personally picked it was it is what Berry Boy is using in Hope.

I figure if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. Additionally, I knew that if I had any setup problems it would be a LOT easier to get some guidance from Roy than if I had a different brand that he might not be as knowledgable of.

Last, Mike & I agreed that if in the future, Roy had an update idea, it'd be a LOT easier to impliment if we're all on the same hardware.

As best I know, Roy is using this in his test chamber so how much closer to that can I get? [8-|] []

[Guest " "]

Coytee

Any idea what the impedance is of the Jub bass bin?

Al's es600 assumes a k-33

[mark1101]

I would expect that the further you could get away from those things, the better they will sound.

If I might inquire...

Why would that be?

Dr. Who gives the technical explanation, but I have always used my Heritage speakers outdoors whenever I can. If you ever do that, you soon find out that the projection of the horns is tremendous (especially the LaScala). Even the K-77 tweeter is still effective at long distances (50 yards or more) with just a few watts. Once you step away like that and here the sound fully developed (especially at night).....well you'd have to be there.

The comment was just one from practical use. [] We all know the Js are for a movie theater. It makes sense they cover big distances.

Richard will fry like a hotdog in a microwave when he sits in the pretty pink chair[6]

[Coytee]

Coytee Any idea what the impedance is of the Jub bass bin? Al's es600 assumes a k-33

lol .... you're funny... lol

nary a clue

[oldbuckster]

The Jubille's are a 2 way system, that's interesting, any reason they did that? Most of the bigger speaker systems are 3 way, very interesting change of direction...........