tigerwoodKhorns Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Can any VPI Scout owners out there comment on the Scout JMW 9 combo? On Audioasylum I keep reading that Rega Owners seem to say that theri tables are more listenable (the whole PRAT thing) and VPI owners say their is more accurate. Can anyoen who has heard both commnet? I am considering a Dynavector 10x5 cart and a VPI Scout or used Rega for much less. I have to admit, and I know that this shouldn't matter, but the Scout is one nice looking peice of equipment. Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 what is PRAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Chris, while I can't help you directly with your questions...perhaps I can throw some more variables into your considered mix. I was originally planning on a Scout to replace my current table. Won't get into the details here as it was a long and tortured process in my mind...but lets just say I decided to go with a cartridge upgrade before I went with the TT upgrade. Since I was planning on getting a Scout down the road I was giving the Dynavectors a long hard look for the same reasons I am sure you are planning on a 10x5. After lots of reading and talking to Scout people I decided to go with a DV 20 over the 10. I really like that cartridge and have not upgraded my table. However, I have gotten a BBX with cream and LOMC cartridge. So the DV 20x sits. Do you still have the Maggies? Perhaps a trade? I have been under the gun to clean some stuff out. If you are interested in the 20 over the 10 give me a yell. So now to the point. TT, Arm, Cart. all at one time is always a large output of $$$. But you will most likely have that cartridge for a long time. Most places will deal on the package of TT/Cart more then just the TT. See what the difference in price for the better cartridge is before you commit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 I am interested in the Dynavector DV 20x, and yes, I do still have the Maggies. Drop me an email at nevadamail@hotmail.com I'll check it when I get home. What TT are you using? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Man, I am gonna get divorced if I bring a new set of speakers in the house []<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> My current TT is a Music Hall MMF-5. Believe all the hype when they say you can't best it unless you spend a grand or MORE. The main reason I have not moved forward with a Scout is because I know I will be one of those guys with a $5000 dollar Scout not a 1500 one, when all is said and done. Read lots of upgrade options. After hearing 3 different Basis tables (1400, 2001 and Debut) I am sold on them. I think you put out a little more money up front, but you get there faster in the long run. Basis uses the same motor, bearing and other parts on many of their tables. You see Basis 1400 tables selling for 800-1200 all the time and they have the same 700 dollar motor as their much more high end tables. That is crazy in my book...in a good way. Anyway...off topic as usual. I am not trying to start a Scout vs. Basis debate. I was just trying to point out my research on the two Dynavector cartridges and found lots and lots of people claiming that the 20x was well worth the extra money. Disclaimer - I have not heard a 10x, but love my 20x. Scott in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Ohio has a DV 20 and thinks well of it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 What is a good Rega arm (or other arm) to use on a Basis 1400? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 what is PRAT? Pace, Rythm And Timing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 What is a good Rega arm (or other arm) to use on a Basis 1400? Thanks, Chris Basis takes a Rega 300, reworks it a bit and sells it with any Basis table. They add a VTA feature and I believe they rewire it too. I am not 100% sure if any old Rega arm will work or not...There might be some sort of adaptor necessary on the base of the arm. Don't hold me to that...as I am trying to find out one way or the other myself.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The Basis version (RB 300) is about 500 bucks. While I have not personally heard one I have been told that the Graham Robin should be a great match with Basis tables. Graham in general have a pretty good reputation. Since the Origin arms are rega based I would imagine a Origin Live Silver would be a darn good arm for a basis as well...again I have not heard one. The ultimate (as far as I am concerned) is the Basis Vector arm. If you get a Basis table with a RB 300 arm the mounting hole is the same as the Vector so there is a nice upgrade path there. So many decisions. Where is the Wal-Mart sized store with nothing but every combination of table, arm cart.??? That would really come in handy. I would also like it to be just around the corner from my house. Dare to dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 what is PRAT? Pace, Rythm And Timing I'm new to this TT world, how do those terms differ from 'speed', as in the RPM of the turntable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, it looks like I'm going to be the only person here to stand up for the Scout. I purchased a used Scout with the 9 arm for $1200. I put a Benz ACE cart on it and have been very happy with the results considering the relatively small amount of cash invested. Will I upgrade in the future? - sure I will - probably a Scoutmaster with 10 in arm and a Benz woodbody cart when I get a new preamp. But right now, its not a major priority. There seems to be a nice used Scout on Audiogon every week and I think that path is a good way to go money-wise and sound-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 what is PRAT? Pace, Rythm And Timing I'm new to this TT world, how do those terms differ from 'speed', as in the RPM of the turntable? Well, RPM is just that. The speed of the TT 331/3 , 45 etc. PRAT is just another audiophile term that demonstrates the ability of a system, (not just a TT) to give you a precise music reproduction. Just like any audiophile term, it is very subjective. Think of it as a quartet playing some heavy jazz and everything is synchronized <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> A fellow describe PRAT in terms of HI-FI as the Following: PRAT is directly related to the speed of a system's response and is the continuously relative delay between the information being read from the source and the tones being reproduced from the driver. The design factors that will have perhaps the largest impact on this would be the quality of the power supply in the amplifiers and the speed of the materials used in the driver material. I understand that its a very common British term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, it looks like I'm going to be the only person here to stand up for the Scout. I purchased a used Scout with the 9 arm for $1200. I put a Benz ACE cart on it and have been very happy with the results considering the relatively small amount of cash invested. Will I upgrade in the future? - sure I will - probably a Scoutmaster with 10 in arm and a Benz woodbody cart when I get a new preamp. But right now, its not a major priority. There seems to be a nice used Scout on Audiogon every week and I think that path is a good way to go money-wise and sound-wise. The VPI Scout is my first audiophile TT. It is a very good TT for the price IMHO. Before you do some serious upgrade try doing what I did with my SuperScout Master and see if you like what you hear. Go with a real heavy base for the TT, layers of Ply would be the choice. Let it sit on a sandbox with air bladders. Seperate the motor from the plinth completely, but sitting in the same base, check the pic on my sig. The idea is to kill all the resonance. Try using a stetoscope on the motor, if you hear the same sound on the plinth then my suggestion will get rid of the sound. Compare your Scout now to after you do what Im suggesting and your jaw will drop on the sonic difference. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I own a Scout. I lost a Stanton 8005m table (gyropoise arm, magnetic suspension). To replace it I tried a Rega 300 with a Benz Silver cart. I did not like it one bit and it seemed cheap. The Rega .... I have since replaced the Rega with a VPI Scout and a Dynavector 20 high output. Best money I ever spent. But do not buy their dustcover.... there are better ones out there.... check out JMK Displays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, it looks like I'm going to be the only person here to stand up for the Scout. I purchased a used Scout with the 9 arm for $1200. I put a Benz ACE cart on it and have been very happy with the results considering the relatively small amount of cash invested. Will I upgrade in the future? - sure I will - probably a Scoutmaster with 10 in arm and a Benz woodbody cart when I get a new preamp. But right now, its not a major priority. There seems to be a nice used Scout on Audiogon every week and I think that path is a good way to go money-wise and sound-wise. BillH2121, The Scout should really not require anyone to stand up for it. It's been on the market long enough, and has been reviewed by almost every major publication that covers turntables. The conclusion is generally the same. It is an outstanding "value", and performer, for those interested in analog reproduction, right out of the box . The JMW 9 arm is also considered to bring the same attributes to the fore when mounted on the Scout, not to mention that is designed by the same designer of the table. The capablility to stay within the Scouts basic form factor, and through upgrades, take it into a very serious performance realm is another big plus. Unless something has changed that I am not aware of, you will not be able to go to a JMW 10 inch arm with the Scout. It only supports the JMW 9, but there is an upgraded JMW 9 arm available. Going up to an Aries table will allow the use of a 10 inch arm, moving to the "extended" Aries table will allow use of the 12 inch arm. Chris, As for the originally posted question, I had an RB300 arm available when I purchased my Scout several years ago, but decided to go with the JMW arm. Sorry I can not provide a comparison, because the RB300 was never mounted to that table. Generally speaking, I prefer a uni-pivot arm. A used Scout/JMW 9 package will generally cost between $900 and $1100, and it outperforms most of the vintage lower cost options, and the closer priced new options from Music Hall on build quality alone. From my limited understanding of the Basis line, the 1400 has no upgrade path, which may or may not be important to you. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 jazman - I thought the Scoutmaster could accomodate the 10" arm. [Later - Just checked the vpi site - I think you're right, Scoutmaster d/n list longer arm as upgrade - my bad] Raptorman - I took a look at your pics. First of all, nice stuff. Second, I'm going to do a little experimenting in a couple weeks and incorporate some of your suggestions. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 From my understanding of the Basis line, the 1400 has no upgrade path, which may or may not be important to you. That is correct -- upgrades are only available within the 2000 series, i.e., from the 2000 to the 2001. Note that a Basis upgrade costs the full-price difference between the two models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, it looks like I'm going to be the only person here to stand up for the Scout. I purchased a used Scout with the 9 arm for $1200. I put a Benz ACE cart on it and have been very happy with the results considering the relatively small amount of cash invested. Will I upgrade in the future? - sure I will - probably a Scoutmaster with 10 in arm and a Benz woodbody cart when I get a new preamp. But right now, its not a major priority. There seems to be a nice used Scout on Audiogon every week and I think that path is a good way to go money-wise and sound-wise. BillH2121, The Scout should really not require anyone to stand up for it. It's been on the market long enough, and has been reviewed by almost every major publication that covers turntables. The conclusion is generally the same. It is an outstanding "value", and performer, for those interested in analog reproduction, right out of the box . The JMW 9 arm is also considered to bring the same attributes to the fore when mounted on the Scout, not to mention that is designed by the same designer of the table. The capablility to stay within the Scouts basic form factor, and through upgrades, take it into a very serious performance realm is another big plus. Unless something has changed that I am not aware of, you will not be able to go to a JMW 10 inch arm with the Scout. It only supports the JMW 9, but there is an upgraded JMW 9 arm available. Going up to an Aries table will allow the use of a 10 inch arm, moving to the "extended" Aries table will allow use of the 12 inch arm. Chris, As for the originally posted question, I had an RB300 arm available when I purchased my Scout several years ago, but decided to go with the JMW arm. Sorry I can not provide a comparison, because the RB300 was never mounted to that table. Generally speaking, I prefer a uni-pivot arm. A used Scout/JMW 9 package will generally cost between $900 and $1100, and it outperforms most of the vintage lower cost options, and the closer priced new options from Music Hall on build quality alone. From my limited understanding of the Basis line, the 1400 has no upgrade path, which may or may not be important to you. Klipsch out. I was really about to pull the trigger when I read on Audio Asylum about the Scout vs the Rega P25. Many prefer the P 25 and you can get them for about 1/2 of the cost of the Scout. How often do they go for $900 with the arm? I can get a new one with warranty for $1350 shipped and am really close to buying. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I was really about to pull the trigger when I read on Audio Asylum about the Scout vs the Rega P25. Many prefer the P 25 and you can get them for about 1/2 of the cost of the Scout. How often do they go for $900 with the arm? I can get a new one with warranty for $1350 shipped and am really close to buying. Chris Chris, If you can get one (Scout) new for $1350, including shipping, that is a good price. The $900 price shows up on Audiogon from time to time. I can't say how often a $1000 asking price might get closer to $900, or $1100 posted asking prices get closer to $1000 either. As for a P25 vs a Scout, as with most things, opinions and sonic preferences vary, but the P25 is going out of production. The fact that Scouts hold a great deal of their market value may mean something, or not. Here is a current one for sale. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1161015744 I have no connection to the seller. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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