Is a small SET amp too powerful (for anyone)?

[maxg]

Simple design - not much to go wrong.

DIY'ers dream - cheap to make.

Nice mid-range.

Not bad I thought.

[jbsl]

I had a pair of 2A3 Moondogs that had very low hum once adjusted. I can not comment on all the other SET amps but the Moondogs did not.

I remember seeing pics of your living room Parrot and there is no way a SET amp could drive your KHorns! You need POWER for your living room!

But my living room is small and the Moondogs with a Ground Grid tube preamp drove my La Scalas to the same volume levels as my Cayin TA 30 tube amp rated at 35 watts.

When I say volume levlels I mean volume levels I listen at. In fact the Moondogs, Ground Grid tube preamp, and La Scalas had better bass than when using the Cayin, yes I know heretic[], blasphmy[:|], etc etc, etc.

But remember this is in a living room 15 x 15 x 8 I did not need 30-60 watts to get loud volume levels and good bass. The few times I have probably ever used more than 5 watts with the Cayin it is too loud and I turn it back down.

SET amps used in the right size room can sound very good and have good bass, good not thunderous. In a small room it does not take as many watts to reach a loud volume level. In a large living room it does take power.

I understand arguements against SET because SET amps do not work for everyones situations but to say they are a bad design and should not be used at all sounds like arguements against Klipsch speakers I have heard.

[jbsl]

"Is a small SET amp too powerful (for anyone)?" All depends on the size of the room and the speakers.

If I could borrow A pair of Jubilees and put them in my living room at 107-109DB 3.5 watts in my living room would be too loud for me!

Now put the Jubilees into my bedroom 12 x 12 x 8 the 3.5 watts just got louder and my ears are ringing and my head is hurting.

I think Coyotee was mad cause he was using 1/10 of a watt and his wife was complaining it was too loud.

So yes a SET amp can be too powerful for some people but not everyone.[]

[NOSValves]

I had a pair of 2A3 Moondogs that had very low hum once adjusted. I can not comment on all the other SET amps but the Moondogs did not.

I remember seeing pics of your living room Parrot and there is no way a SET amp could drive your KHorns! You need POWER for your living room!

But my living room is small and the Moondogs with a Ground Grid tube preamp drove my La Scalas to the same volume levels as my Cayin TA 30 tube amp rated at 35 watts.

When I say volume levlels I mean volume levels I listen at. In fact the Moondogs, Ground Grid tube preamp, and La Scalas had better bass than when using the Cayin, yes I know heretic[], blasphmy[:|], etc etc, etc.

But remember this is in a living room 15 x 15 x 8 I did not need 30-60 watts to get loud volume levels and good bass. The few times I have probably ever used more than 5 watts with the Cayin it is too loud and I turn it back down.

SET amps used in the right size room can sound very good and have good bass, good not thunderous. In a small room it does not take as many watts to reach a loud volume level. In a large living room it does take power.

I understand arguements against SET because SET amps do not work for everyones situations but to say they are a bad design and should not be used at all sounds like arguements against Klipsch speakers I have heard.

See this is exactly my point when it comes to many of the SET users. They take a very highly regarded SET amplifier and compare it to a very low cost entry level PP amplifier that will absolutely not open up and spread its wings just simply inserted in the system and compared. Many problems with this scenario. What your saying is not blasphmy it would be the exact results I would expect.

Craig

[Colin]

I have never driven either a Porsche or a Yugo, but have leaned on both. So I find this debate interesting. I found the arguments over tweaks, vibration isolation platforms, EQ, acoustic panels and power conditioners interesting, until I tired the things for myself and noticed different differences; ones worth keeping for myself. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

BTW, the $35 Sonic Impact is a halva amplifier for the size and money. The battery operated RED Wine Clari T is one of the best solid-state amplifiers I have heard on big ole horns.

[edwinr]

See this is exactly my point when it comes to many of the SET users. They take a very highly regarded SET amplifier and compare it to a very low cost entry level PP amplifier that will absolutely not open up and spread its wings just simply inserted in the system and compared. Many problems with this scenario. What your saying is not blasphmy it would be the exact results I would expect.

Craig

Good point you make, Craig. See you CAN debate! []

When I was on my amplifier rampage last year, I was listening to lots of amps, including some quite highly regarded SETs. The amount of money being asked for the SET amplifiers made me blanche - for only 3 to 5 watts!. Now these amps sounded okay -alright they sounded really good - but when I wanted to give them a tickle there was NOTHING there. No power reserves. Nothing. They just wouldn't go any louder. One amp in particular started to distort quite badly so I had to back the volume off until it sounded good again. But there's no way I could possibly listen at those low levels. Foe me to accept the very low power, I'd have to have a very small room.

[neo33]

Edwin, buddy, you're DEAF! Admit it and move on! []

[Colin]

A good solid-state amplifier for Khorns?

http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1006sonic/<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Basically, it's a simple class-D power amplifier based on the Tripath TA2024 chip. According to Tripath's data sheet, the TA2024 produces 11W into 4 ohms or 6W into 8 ohms

[Parrot]

Edwin, buddy, you're DEAF! Admit it and move on! []

Edwin, I'm afraid Neo is right on this. If you ever had a 3W amp turned up all the way, you have certainly suffered irreparable hearing damage. My goodness, a 1.5W amplifier is enough to fill an aircraft hangar and thrill 1000 dinner guests. No one could play a 1W amp in a home environment (104dB for Pete's sake) and have his ears healthy after the onslaught.

At least, if you believe what has been stated in the last week. []

[Deang]

A good solid-state amplifier for Khorns?

http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1006sonic/<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Basically, it's a simple class-D power amplifier based on the Tripath TA2024 chip. According to Tripath's data sheet, the TA2024 produces 11W into 4 ohms or 6W into 8 ohms

Somebody, ahem -- needs to review that thing on some big ole horns. Don't run it through a preamp. Even through a great one like the Peach it loses 'something'.

[Erik Mandaville]

Max:

Simple design - not much to go wrong.

DIY'ers dream - cheap to make

Perhaps, not always, though. I have made SET amplifiers that are just as complex and in one case quite more complex than a few push-pull amplifiers that frequently surface here. In some cases, single-ended triode amps are more expensive to make and use more exotic iron (or sometimes no output iron at all) than (some) higher power designs in push-pull. It's not a constant sort of thing, and depends on a variety of factors.

Erik

[NOSValves]

Max:

Simple design - not much to go wrong.

DIY'ers dream - cheap to make

Perhaps, not always, though. I have made SET amplifiers that are just as complex and in one case quite more complex than a few push-pull amplifiers that frequently surface here. In some cases, single-ended triode amps are more expensive to make and use more exotic iron (or sometimes no output iron at all) than (some) higher power designs in push-pull. It's not a constant sort of thing, and depends on a variety of factors.

Erik

Erik,

This is getting to be way to common!!!! Great post. I think I'm going to get drunk now

[Painful Reality]

See this is exactly my point when it comes to many of the SET users. They take a very highly regarded SET amplifier and compare it to a very low cost entry level PP amplifier that will absolutely not open up and spread its wings just simply inserted in the system and compared. Many problems with this scenario. What your saying is not blasphmy it would be the exact results I would expect.

Craig

Well, 70% of the audio people are probably clueless anyway. Take the case of the klipschorns, how many stupid room setups did you see around here? A freakin lot if you ask me.

My take on low power SETs? A good one can be absolutely great for jazz. I still use one for most of my jazz listening. I didn't find a lot of amps that could render jazz with such naturalness as a good 2A3 or 300B SET (except for my ex-Tenor Audio OTL). OTOH I've hated all 45 SET amps I've heard with a passion (they seems to all find in the "hear hear don't I have great deeeeeetails or what"). I don't think a low powered SET is well suited for orchestra unless the room is VERY small (though I heard a really nice setup of SET complemented with a sub). It's definitively not suited for loud rock.

Anyway, there is a simple audio rule:

If you have only one system, you're a freakin moron.

Oh wait, there is another one:

If you're trying to setup a 5.1 channel that can play great music, you're an even bigger moron.

This being said, if anyone is interested in a Bogen MO100A, there one sitting in the snow in front of my house waiting to be picked up by the garbage man... Better act fast!

[Mike Lindsey]

See this is exactly my point when it comes to many of the SET users. They take a very highly regarded SET amplifier and compare it to a very low cost entry level PP amplifier that will absolutely not open up and spread its wings just simply inserted in the system and compared. Many problems with this scenario. What your saying is not blasphmy it would be the exact results I would expect.

Craig

Well, 70% of the audio people are probably clueless anyway. Take the case of the klipschorns, how many stupid room setups did you see around here? A freakin lot if you ask me.

My take on low power SETs? A good one can be absolutely great for jazz. I still use one for most of my jazz listening. I didn't find a lot of amps that could render jazz with such naturalness as a good 2A3 or 300B SET (except for my ex-Tenor Audio OTL). OTOH I've hated all 45 SET amps I've heard with a passion (they seems to all find in the "hear hear don't I have great deeeeeetails or what"). I don't think a low powered SET is well suited for orchestra unless the room is VERY small (though I heard a really nice setup of SET complemented with a sub). It's definitively not suited for loud rock.

Anyway, there is a simple audio rule:

If you have only one system, you're a freakin moron.

Oh wait, there is another one:

If you're trying to setup a 5.1 channel that can play great music, you're an even bigger moron.

This being said, if anyone is interested in a Bogen MO100A, there one sitting in the snow in front of my house waiting to be picked up by the garbage man... Better act fast!

LMAO!

[neo33]

"Anyway, there is a simple audio rule:

If you have only one system, you're a freakin moron.

Oh wait, there is another one:

If you're trying to setup a 5.1 channel that can play great music, you're an even bigger moron.

This being said, if anyone is interested in a Bogen MO100A, there
one sitting in the snow in front of my house waiting to be picked up by
the garbage man... Better act fast!"

Dr. Lessard, it's nice to see your sense of humor. []

[Painful Reality]

Dr. Lessard, it's nice to see your sense of humor. []

I'm dead serious...

[neo33]

If you're dead, how can you be serious?

[Painful Reality]

If you're dead, how can you be serious?

Ask Trinity

[neo33]

Edwin, buddy, you're DEAF! Admit it and move on! []

Edwin, I'm afraid Neo is right on this. If you ever had a 3W amp turned up all the way, you have certainly suffered irreparable hearing damage. My goodness, a 1.5W amplifier is enough to fill an aircraft hangar and thrill 1000 dinner guests. No one could play a 1W amp in a home environment (104dB for Pete's sake) and have his ears healthy after the onslaught.

At least, if you believe what has been stated in the last week. []

Parrot, you're absolutely right! I have lost my hearing eons ago.

[neo33]

Dr. Lessard, on a more serious note, how is Kelly holding out?