mas Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Good point, Paul! I personally choose to use only rare earth doped cryogenically treated and Litz configuration braided re-bar with the green and purple striped 3/8 inch thick insulation - as everyone knows those colors are proven conclusively to scare away EMI and dust bunnies. No no no no no.... the purple and green one is the new line for 2007, it just is sooooo much better than last years model.. Get with the plan dude!!!! I am sure Paul knows all about this subject. He spends HOURS on this topic with long posts proving it all out!!! hahahaahahaha Geesh! Now you tell me its the 'purple and green' insulation instead of the 'green and purple' installation! Are you sure? The unsolicited testimony of those dust bunnies sure seemed conclusive... So I guess I need to go and spend another $1000 bucks on new interconnects to connect my 3w amp to my Wal-Mart speakers. But, as a consolation, I suppose those other cables were just about worn out by now anyway. After all, them electrons probably need new tennis shoes anyway. Besides, I just saw some fancy new $350 wooden knobs guaranteed to improve the sound as they are said to have a special divergent resonance due to their acting as a sympathetic antenna with the natural resonance of nature. ...just makes common sense that anything natural would be superior to that artificial metal stuff! And then there is that new grapevine interconnect complete with acorn connectors! ...so many things to keep up with! Thanks for the heads up! Its so hard to keep up with all of the new advances by myself. Who would have guessed that this audio stuff was so kompleekated!? [:S][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Mas, I wonder if the speaker wire risers are supposed to be arranged to make the wire rise up to the speakers, or fall down. I think components should probably be up towards ceiling height so that the electrons will get more momentum going downhill to the speakers, but at audio shows I see equipment on the floor?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Is that why SETs use air gapped transformers? - To use the greater air density at the floor as leverage to help pump those electrons through the wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 This is a seriously whacked thread! Everyone knows you have to have CLEAR insulation so that you have CLEAR sound! Sheesh, electronics 101........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If you are serious about pursuing the holy grail of sound....let's not forget the dielectric tune-up grease....the type used on auto distributive cable connections....use a thin coat of the grease on all your connections..wire ends...rca surfaces...phono cartridge leads...repeat every six months for best results. Do not use battery anti-corriosion compond for this...battery anti-corrision compound is an insulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Actually, that's not a bad idea to improve connections and help deter oxidation. I don't really see a need for repeat applications though. Once again, to refresh, I am simply wondering how inserting a "Super Duper" wire in between two short lengths of ordinary wire will change the characteristics of the short, ordinary wire, or the overall characteristics of the entire circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Actually, that's not a bad idea to improve connections and help deter oxidation. I don't really see a need for repeat applications though. Once again, to refresh, I am simply wondering how inserting a "Super Duper" wire in between two short lengths of ordinary wire will change the characteristics of the short, ordinary wire, or the overall characteristics of the entire circuit. Ahhh, back to the original question. I think you have already answered it yourself when you used the word "short". This problematic wire is short and replacing it will probably have very little effect, if any. Thin wires only show an increased resistance with a sizable distance. In the bigger picture, however, there a number of other things that one can do that will have a substantial impact on the sound. This, however, is not one of them. This is also simply my opinion and not subject to debate. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByteWrangler Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Actually, that's not a bad idea to improve connections and help deter oxidation. I don't really see a need for repeat applications though. Once again, to refresh, I am simply wondering how inserting a "Super Duper" wire in between two short lengths of ordinary wire will change the characteristics of the short, ordinary wire, or the overall characteristics of the entire circuit. It won't change the characteristics of the short, ordinary wire at all. As Tom points out - because they are short, the characteristics of these "short, ordinary wires" are insignificant. Inserting a long run of inadequate (i.e. too thin and/or exceedingly poor quality) wire between them will add a significant amount of resistance to the entire circuit, but simply using larger wire will reduce or eliminate that problem. "Super Duper" wires will not improve performance over any sufficiently large wire of reasonable (meaning "not absolutely terrible") quality with good connections. Period. As others have pointed out, the SuperDupers may look better, be more durable, handle better or have other desirable characteristics (or not), but they won't sound any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If you want to come as close as possible to eliminating speaker wire and all the debating that goes along with it, you need Flying Moles! Flying Mole is a Japanese company that makes very compact mono amps that are available with brackets to attach them to the outside or inside of your speaker enclosures. The 100-watt units are only $375 apiece and apparently sound pretty good. See: http://www.flyingmole.net/products/m100dcseries.html From their homepage: For Audiophiles, Hard-Core Audio Geeks and Stereo Addicts: This is the perfect amp for the high efficiency loudspeaker crowd; it was designed and voiced with such speakers in mind. In other words, think single ended triode and you will get the idea of the kind of palpable images and rich harmonic textures it generates. The amp's high resolution, speed and complete lack of grain make it an ideal match for the most revealing of electrostatic loudspeakers. If you like wall-to-wall soundstaging with finely layered depth, you will be shocked at how much of both you will get. The M100dc+'s strong Power Supply gives it some of the best bass around, so it is the perfect outboard amp for a passive subwoofer as well as bass amp for a biamped system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 This is the perfect amp for the high efficiency loudspeaker crowd; itwas designed and voiced with such speakers in mind. In other words, think single ended triode and you will get the idea of the kind of palpable images and rich harmonic textures it generates. The amp's high resolution, speed and complete lack of grain make itan ideal match for the most revealing of electrostatic loudspeakers. If you like wall-to-wall soundstaging with finely layered depth, you will be shocked at how much of both you will get. The M100dc+'s strong Power Supply gives it some of the best bassaround, so it is the perfect outboard amp for a passive subwoofer as well as bass amp for a biamped system. Hmmm...Yup. a tube amp strapped and coupled to a sub....? [:|] [:S] So much for the reported advantages the above description mentions! That will redefine the meaning of tube distortion! You like "tube harmonics"? Well, not only will you have them in spades, but you will learn the definition of a microphonic tube first hand! Talk about a feedback loop! The music will definitely modulate the music! Cue M. Escher's self-referential hand drawing the hand! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The amp's high resolution, speed and complete lack of grain make it an ideal match for the most revealing of electrostatic loudspeakers. If you like wall-to-wall soundstaging with finely layered depth, you will be shocked at how much of both you will get. The M100dc+'s strong Power Supply gives it some of the best bass around, so it is the perfect outboard amp for a passive subwoofer as well as bass amp for a biamped system. Hmmm...Yup. a tube amp strapped and coupled to a sub....? [:|] [:S] So much for the reported advantages the above description mentions! That will redefine the meaning of tube distortion! You like "tube harmonics"? Well, not only will you have them in spades, but you will learn the definition of a microphonic tube first hand! Talk about a feedback loop! The music will definitely modulate the music! Cue M. Escher's self-referential hand drawing the hand! [] But......they are not tube amps. They are Class D. Good Class D will be as load independant and linear as the best conventional amps. OTOH--Flying Mole are not particularly good Class D amps. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Silly me... When I read "think single ended triode and you will get the idea of the kind of palpable images and rich harmonic textures it generates", I thought of tubes! [*-)] Of course, the thought of a SS amp that generates such harmonics...is a distortion generator! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 as an aside..I was one that tried the Flying Mole amps..they weren't bad, but they weren't a replacement for my SETs in any way! As a second stereo, where space was a problem..sure. I'm sure class D amps will continue to improve.. (not to get off topic) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Silly me... When I read "think single ended triode and you will get the idea of the kind of palpable images and rich harmonic textures it generates", I thought of tubes! [*-)] Of course, the thought of a SS amp that generates such harmonics...is a distortion generator! [] Ahh...I went back to the original post and saw that triode mention..... Interestingly (or not) some of the Class D amps which tend to be most popular with audiophiles are the least transparent ala Tripath. They do some mildly funky stuff to the signal which is (psychoacoustically speaking) appealing: adding dBs in the 'air' range, a bit of extra distortion, etc. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 There is a flea on the hair, on the wart, on the frog, on the bump, on the log, in the hole, in the bottom of the sea/.... ok sorry.. I bet those PETA people hate we shoot moles out of cannons??? So they fly...... Do they scream yiiiiipppiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee? A amp takes in 22 them thar watts but puts out 100 WPC is this possible??? Are you talking to me?? What??? Sorry I forgot...The question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [][] It's worth it just to piss those PETA folks off! [:'(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 OK - my turn. We have an amp and we have speakers. Generally speaking I would guess that any benefit to be had from having the shortest possible connection between amp and speaker would be off-set to a greater or lesser degree by having the amp that close to the speaker in the first place. Aside from powered speakers most implementations attempt to put some distance between speaker and amp. For this you need to use a wire (usually). This wire will be subject to all the usual scientific stuff like resistance, capacitance and, potentially interferance. If it runs near power cables you might get inductance in the speaker wire, for example, which is probably not a good thing. When buying a wire, therefore, one should take into account both the gauge of the wire and the insultation (as much to keep stray signals out as your sound signal in). Obviously the length of the wire would also be a facotr in choosing both gauge and insulation. Once you get into materials used for the wire things can get a little more esoteric. Silver is more expensive than copper but its oxide is still a good conductor of electricity (whilst Copper oxide is not). This can be important at the connections of wire to amp and speaker over time. I cannot comment on braiding options / solid core / oxygen free etc. etc. These may or may not make a difference ultimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 If the wires inside the amp/receiver to the speaker terminal strip are copper, and the wires inside the speaker enclosure are copper, how does inserting silver/gold/platinum in the middle change the characteristics of the copper wire on both ends? Still giving to the obvious, proper gauge for the length needed, properly insulated, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 "Actually, that's not a bad idea to improve connections and help deter oxidation. I don't really see a need for repeat applications though." Maybe I should sell some on ebay. I could buy a 12oz tube at the auto store for less than 10 bucks. Fill some vitamin capsules with the stuff and sell it for about 5 bucks per capsule. 12oz's should be good for 50 capsules. No, I better not do this. Someone might buy the stuff, and ingest it in order to improve the sound of their speaker wires. They could get pretty sick from the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 If the wires inside the amp/receiver to the speaker terminal strip are copper, and the wires inside the speaker enclosure are copper, how does inserting silver/gold/platinum in the middle change the characteristics of the copper wire on both ends? Still giving to the obvious, proper gauge for the length needed, properly insulated, etc. Gold and SIlver atoms are heavier than copper atoms. The Gold or Silver electron that enters the copper atom during the flow of electtricity makes the copper wire a better conductor. However, as the heavy Gold or SIlver electron leaves the heavy Gold or Silver atoms, due to the nature of electricity, they are replaced with ligher copper electrons resulting in ligher Gold or Silver atoms. This is why you should replace your Gold or Silver interconnects every 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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