HD-DVD, XBox, Wii ...and Blu-Ray and PS3... oh Sony....

[mas]

Being as that so many are want to discuss what side of the HD DVD format wars are winning, the latest stats are rather interesting.

Especially in light of the XBox's continuing movement in sales, as well as Nintendo's spectacular success with Wii to the effect that they can't keep them in stock, and then we have Sony.

Yep, and there is Sony....

"The December sales numbers from industry analyst firm NPD Group for
game consoles have just come in, and they aren't pretty. Sony, beset by
supply problems, reduced its initial August prediction of 2 million
down to 750,000, and in the end didn't even make that - the company
sold 490,700 units in December, for a total of 687,300 since launch."

And to make matters worse, lots of stores in the DFW area have them in stock, two I asked have more than 25 of them...and there are no lines or waiting lists...

Out of the chute like a rabbit and down the stretch like a....turtle.

It seems that passion and debate aren't nearly as convincing as a compelling market reason driving, oh yeah, ....SALES! Or the lack thereof....

[^o)]

Oh, and before anyone jump in with the potential multi-format drives...you might want to address the fact that they are in violation of the licensing restrictions and can be stopped in a heartbeat in court. Until you overcome that minor hurdle, they are moot in the marketplace.

[el jopez]

No kidding, Sony has FUBAR'd the Playstation 3 and the Blu-Ray player.

With the amazing inconsistencies, price of development, lack of market share, lack of creative offerings, there is absolutley no point in supporting the PS3 or Blu-Ray brand. MS has developed, and focused the 360 as a gaming/media platform and their hand in the development of the HD-DVD format screams consumer benefits vs Blu-Ray.

As far as the court case, this certainly isn't the first or the last time that Sony would be stopped by a court order. Two years ago, Sony was ordered by a Federal Judge to halt all sale of the PS 2 since the rumble technology they used in their controllers violated the patents of a third part vendor. Yes, MS violated the same patent, but settled out of court much sooner and faster than Sony.

Why do you think that the PS3 controller lacks rumble support? []

[nuxx]

Sony has said countless times their "real" launch will be in March. This will come with a full marketing campaign and some very desirable games. When the FF series, Gran Turismo series, etc... start to show up, Sony will do just fine :-)

BTW: I have all three systems, and even the HD DVD player for the 360, so I'm not biased. I think HD DVD looks better too

[mas]

Sure!

They have said A LOT of things! Including a formal apology for lousy products and support just several months ago!

And with the spectacular progress so far, why would anyone say otherwise!

"Hey everyone! LOOK! Our sales aren't even meeting the expectation of the initial hype!...In fact falling more than 33% below expectations for AVAILABLE units. And we can't even elicit a sufficient response from the fanatics!"

Of course they haven't started.

I guess the real source of the problem is that after 5 years of pre-introduction hype, that no one is aware of them.

And of course, since Sony has not really started pushing them, everyone is simply waiting for commercials to buy them...

I have heard better excuses during Congressional hearings![][]

Gaming? HD? HD-DVD? Blu-Ray? What's that? [^o)]

[el jopez]

Remember, HD gaming starts when Sony says it does []

Sony misleads multiple times on MotorStorm resolution, revises PS3 sales goals to allow for success.

Sony gives itself an Emmy for its controller: [8-|]

Then retracts it [:#]

Did Sony's Emmy: what was it for? Did Sony lie? What did the pulled press release say? Answers inside

Lastly, Sony and its distributor tout the advances of Blu-Ray tech. [^o)]

Blu-Ray Shameless Self-Promotion a CES Staple

And this BTW is all in the last 7 days. I'm sorry but as a company when you start having all these things add up, credibility tends to take a nose dive.

[mas]

Amen!

And has anyone noticed that no one has even mentioned the price of their product!

Oops!

It's not like others are responsible for Sony's mess![]

Hey, and its not like I have never bought Sony!

I even have a 4 year old Sony TV sitting in my den that requires a new picture tube to prove it. I would repair it but the replacement tube ALONE costs $350 more than the set did! [:S]

[damonrpayne]

Sony has not done a good job launching the PS3, I waited until the first firmware updates were out and the units were on shelves. The PS2 launch was far worse in terms of unit availability and launch titles. 75 Million PS2s have now been sold world wide, and the PS2 outsold the Xbox 360 and the Wii and the PS3 and everything but the Nintendo DS this holiday season.

I'm not excusing Sony, they had to fix some stuff before earning my business, but just saying the Sony hate has reached irrational levels. I plan on getting an Xbox 360 too as soon as they release one with HDMI and fewer overheating issues.

[mas]

I think this may indicate part of the problem with Sony.

They have no connection with reality! And I suspect that they may have hired Bill Clinton as their accountant!

"In a statement to ____News this afternoon, a spokesperson for
Sony Computer Entertainment of America said that NPD Group estimates of
687,300 PlayStation 3 consoles sold in the US - a figure which Sony did
not deny - effectively meets the company's most recently stated sales
goal of one million units in North America.

"As we announced
on January 8, 2007, we met our previously stated goal of 1M units in
North America by December 31, 2006," the spokesperson told BetaNews.
The spokesperson goes on to point out that NPD Group's numbers fail to
take into account units sold in Canada (which Sony estimates at
90,000), units sold in the past week (January 1 - 6, 2007, which falls
outside of 2006, though whose sales figures Sony estimates to be
170,000), plus an estimated "units at retail that are in transit or on
their way to from the warehouse to the store" (approximately 100,000
units).

With those adjustments having been made, Sony today popped open the
champagne corks and began celebrating. In a statement early this
afternoon, Sony CEA President Jack Tretton proclaimed, "If there was
ever any doubt about the power of the PlayStation brand in the US, the
December NPD data should quickly quell it. Not only did consumers drive
records for PLAYSTATION 3, they also validated the excellent value
represented by PlayStation 2 and the entertainment versatility of PSP.
These sales figures bode very well for the company heading into 2007.""

I guess it all depends on how you define 1 Million and the word "sold"! And I guess that means however you want...

Can we say: "What"?!?!?!?! [:|][:S]

If that is how they do math, I wonder if "March" doesn't mean March of 2017.

Maybe Sony should start marketing some of that Kool-Aid they are drinking!

Now That seems to be effective! (Maybe the only thing!)

[el jopez]

Sony announced earlier this week that they'd shipped 1

million units of PS3 into the US. When I spoke to them yesterday, they

claimed this gave them an advantage over Xbox 360, that they're further

ahead than Xbox 360 was at this stage in its lifecycle in the States.

Would you agree with that?

I'll defer my comments. "Shipped," for the purpose of what

they're talking about, is irrelevant. "Shipped" means it's left the

factory. What we're talking about is "sold." "Sold" means that we're a

wholesaler of hardware and we sell it to a retailer, and that's the

important criteria.

From there you follow your sell-through data, but that data's less than perfect. I'll wait for NPD numbers and then maybe we'll compare NPD numbers.

Sony was very fond of saying a year ago that the first few

months don't mean anything, anyway. So now they seem to me they've

reversed that stance and they're saying, "In the first few months we're

the winner."

They should also keep a focus on their friends to the north

in Kyoto, who I think have done a very good job in getting inventory

in, and who've created a lot of buzz in the consumer media. More power

to them. They're expanding our industry and I have to applaud Nintendo

for doing that.

I'll defer until I see real numbers, and NPD are the real numbers. I think we're a week away.

Source

Though by now numbers have shown the 360 sold more than the Ps3 and Wii combined in the US. Not to bad. We have to have competition in the market, so Sony had best get its engines rolling; monopolies are bad, and MS is good at that.

[Professor.Ham.Slap]

I'm actually somewhat intrigued by this generation of gaming consoles. Think about it, the Xbox 360 is evolving rather rapidly from a gaming machine to a complete home entertainment device; one that has the ability to do games, download and stream movies and TV shows, play HD-DVDs (with an add-on, for now) and bring online console gaming to brand new levels. Nintendo has also come out swinging but in a completely different sense. Their console is pure fun, no extra bells and whistles but not that they're really needed at it's $250 price point. Then there's Sony, who had a massive lead on the previous generation seems to have somewhat dropped the ball this time around. I think the cost in many cases is just too hard to swallow, especially since since the 20GB version seems to be overall very crippled in terms of performance. Plus I'm just sick of Sony's "Hey, they're doing better so I'm going to hurl as many insults at them as possible to try to show my superiority" attitude towards the competition.

[mas]

Good points.

MS in indeed looking to use the XBox as a media center, as quite frankly, PC's used as media centers do neither job- PC or Media Center - well!

Nintendo is back with a vengeance and has found a very comfortable price/performance niche (as what average middle income family is going to spend $600 and UP (as that is but a base investment!) in the PS3.

The mistake I think that Sony made is that while the PS1 and PS2 did very well, their success and reputation is insufficient to sell the PS3; and I think that they erroneously assumed that their reputation, along with Blu-Ray, would be sufficient to drive sales.

Additionally, it has been 5 years since Sony announced Blu-Ray, and quite frankly, the novelty has worn off. And if 5 years isn't enough to actually bring a product to market as short lived as the technology life-cycle is now days, they are indeed in serious trouble.

Plus, as good as a media center as the PS3 could potentially be, Sony's marketing arm has completely missed (not even dropped) the ball as far as positioning it as a Media Center. Sony seems to still be living in the 'gaming' market as opposed to the convergent media-centric market while thinking that old reputations for old products are sufficient to drive the new market. And they have missed big-time on both counts.

The player I find conspicuously absent in this market is Apple, who potentially has the means to clean up IF they would effectively address it with a variant of the Mac mini.

[CECAA850]

Oh, and before anyone jump in with the potential multi-format drives...you might want to address the fact that they are in violation of the licensing restrictions and can be stopped in a heartbeat in court. Until you overcome that minor hurdle, they are moot in the marketplace.

How did LG get around it? They're player was at CES and I haven't heard any flak from either side.

[mas]

Showing that you have one and actually selling it are two different things.

Blu-Ray licensing specifically prohibits it.

We'll see.

Personally, until they do, and at a very competitive price, I won't be buying...

[KungFuNat]

i totally agree with damonpayne, the sony hating is at an all time high.... we are now in the second week of january and talking smack about how many playstations are available at retail? is this a joke? sony fixed its supply issues and is now outputting ps3s at a high volume, not to mention the fact that it hasnt even been 3 weeks since christmas. xbox was non-existant in the stores for the for the first 6 months it was out, and dont even get me started on the hardware failure numbers.

none of the 3 systems have any good software right now. zelda is the exact same game as the game cube version, gears of war has nice graphics and poor control and resistance is a halo/cod clone.

nintendo had the best launch due to its gimmicky controller and rabid fans, xbox launch was a unmitigated disaster and sony had problems with supply for the first 2 months and is now over them.

why dont you wait a few months before you start cheering the death of playstation. i fully plan on owning at least both xbox and ps3, but i see no compelling reason to own either of them right now....

[mas]

Sony hating?

I am simply looking at their strategic business acumen and their demonstrated abilities to make good on their marketing hype.

And if you would have noticed, the reaction is in direct response to SONY'S claims! They are the ones running around feeling the need to bolster their position with various claims inflated by defining units sold as units in transit and by units still unshipped but technically scheduled to be shipped to vendors. If they had not been so prominent in making so many announcements and then modifying them multiple times I doubt anyone would care.

The fact is, their own actions are a parody and an amplification of their own continuing problems.

Personally I have no particular fascination with MS, Nintendo or Sony, and while a few may say they will buy more than one system, the average family will not. Fanboys for any of the platforms will not sufficiently drive the market. Sales into the average consumer's household will. And both MS and Nintendo have done a much better job of positioning their products from a business perspective. And it is certainly not a fanboy base that has driven Nintendo's success - innovation, cost and a more realistic assessment of the willingness of some to invest in a game console for the average family is a much more reasonable answer to their success. And MS's aggressive move to position the XBox as a Media Center rather than simply a game box is far ahead of Sony - who is still thinking that past PS1 and PS2 sales will drive their PS3 sales...as unit demand has already fallen as witnessed by many units sitting on shelves. And to say that demand is off simply as a result of people not being aware of them and Sony not officially starting their marketing offensive....please!

Sony's problem can be identified much more accurately by doing a SWOT/TOWS analysis rather than reading some gamer magazine.

And as far as judging them based upon 2 months performance, I prefer to look at the full 5 years since the Sony product announcement and the fact that they are still late to market a product announced a full year before industry members formed an alternative working committee - primarily in response to concerns about Sony's problems. The full history of this is rather fascinating, and not simply one of format competition.

Personally I have no intention of buying one, let alone two ~$500+ systems for games. If I want to play games I will simply upgrade a video processor in a computer and derive much more functionality, just as I am also not investing in a mediocre media center PC. But then I may be a bit unusual, as my life does not revolve around some virtual existence in a game nor on sitting around downloading lossy music files.

The real irony is that I have been one, like many others in the enterprise IT arena, who have been waiting for the technology for all these years for increased data storage capacity - and not games or simply the latest incarnation of HD content limited by the quality of so much of the current programming choices. And while higher density DVDs once held alot of promise, the falling prices for RAM and the exponentially increasing capacity and falling prices of hard drives and the increasing availability of NAS and other distributed online storage options (not to mention the advent of still other storage options) has rendered even the new DVD formats rather inadequate and passe even before they have reached the marketplace - thus further tarnishing the once promising 'must have' technology. Even tape that was only a few years ago declared on its last leg is back with a vengeance.

At one time, the new HD high capacity formats offered a very attractive
storage and backup option when the predominate individual disk sizes ranged in the
80-160 GB ranges. But now as individual disks approach 1 TB and various
raid arrays become the norm, the higher capacity formats are rendered
much less attractive as they approach the same size relative to the storage archive that the
original DVD did. And their costs per unit remain much higher than did
the CD and DVDs for the equivalent point in their lifecycles.
Increasingly, the new HD DVDs are becoming less attractive for mission
critical backups as the risk of a write failure (especially if counting on multi-layer technology for claimed capacity) for data that requires
multiple disks render the exposure prohibitive. They just don't have the capacity to make using them an attractive backup media for larger raids and enterprise databases residing on larger systems where 64-bit extended memory capacity has become the norm for over 10 years now and where multi-TB logical storage is the norm. And as far as their
use in disaster recovery and archival systems are concerned, they are
being increasingly passed by as even a foreseeable option. That is a
criterion that is more telling for the technology than how many gaming
consoles are sold.

The fact is, the delays of both HD DVD formats in reaching the market have relegated a once highly anticipated product to one of limited utility that falls far short of what it could have been. It is just one of many alternatives now, and one that falls short of the price/performance metrics offered by other competing technologies.

But beyond actual market analysis, it is nevertheless a bit humorous, and a bit sad, to observe the Wizard of Oz scarecrow routine that Sony has employed as it provides direction for its introduction of the PS3. And if MS's launch was "disastrous", I hazard to think of the appropriate word for Sony's comparative efforts...

[Jay481985]

Sony has not done a good job launching the PS3, I waited until the first firmware updates were out and the units were on shelves. The PS2 launch was far worse in terms of unit availability and launch titles. 75 Million PS2s have now been sold world wide, and the PS2 outsold the Xbox 360 and the Wii and the PS3 and everything but the Nintendo DS this holiday season.

I'm not excusing Sony, they had to fix some stuff before earning my business, but just saying the Sony hate has reached irrational levels. I plan on getting an Xbox 360 too as soon as they release one with HDMI and fewer overheating issues.

reasons for PS2 selling well, seriously is Guitar Hero!!! That is an awesome game.

[erickoegle]

Jay, I agree with you that Guitar Hero is a great game, but Guitar Hero II is coming out for the 360 sometime this year. Another reason to get an xbox360!.

[mas]

"PS2 outsold the Xbox 360 and the Wii and the PS3 and everything but the Nintendo DS this holiday season. "

Just one more point of evidence that Sony has misjudged the gaming niche market with the PS3. Price positioning is a finer point in strategic marketing.

Lifelike CGI effects are nice. But both the XBox and PS3 miss the mark of what average families might spend their money on....but then judging from popular behavior now days...who can account for values. They certainly won't get you a job! Heck, if only integrity were a marketable commodity!

~$660 for one game. Sounds like a prudent investment to me! []

Its a sad state of affairs when even drugs are a more economically attractive entertainment alternative. And their supply chain even works more efficiently! [][]

...In all fairness, I think the 'problem' that we are encountering in the discussion is the difference between viewing the issue as one of a passion or preference for a particular format or technology and that of viewing the issue from a strategic management business position.

In this I find myself preferring Blu-Ray from an isolated technological perspective (just as I did Beta!).

But from a strategic management point of view, the entire HD debut, and Sony's management in particular, is anything but a pretty picture! And above all, its time that we become more cognizant of the business and economic aspects of the discussion. After all, ignoring that is exactly what caused the Beta debacle to come as a surprise to many!

[el jopez]

Nat, there is no Sony hating whatsoever.

What you see happening is the result when you mix vinegar and baking soda together; The vinegar of course being everything Ken Kitaguiri promised the world with his Blu-Ray, Cell Processor and of course the PS3 being the culmination of the two. Baking Soda would be the final product and services that Sony delivered that of course didn't even come close to living up to the arrogant hype that Sony allowed Kitaguiri to spew for several years against the competition. No, it wasn't healthy marketing, however a malicious attempt on the part of Kitaguiri to portray Sony as the second coming of Christ to the gaming world.

As far as software, both MS and the big N have great software titles. If Gears of War had a bad control system then over 2.7 million copies would not have been sold since its launch. Wii sports has proven to be an extremely popular title, though to concede it is a launch title and is expected to sell decently. If anyone it is Sony who lacks any great titles. Metal Gear Solid 4 was supposed to be a launch title... postponed. Oblivion for the 360 which is a SUPERB game was also postponed for the PS3 launch.

After MS had supply problems with its launch Kitaguiri told the world that he would show MS how to properly do a simultaneous worldwide system launch; never happened. Heck Europe won't see the products for another couple of months. Hating? Hardly; merely an extremely critical analysis of a corporation that has gotten to big for its britches.

Mas, the 360 isn't a media center as it is an extender for Windows Media Center. Sony has plans to make the PS3 in a possible 2000 dollar model a full fledged media center/hub.

[mas]

Mas, the 360 isn't a media center as it is an extender for Windows Media Center. Sony has plans to make the PS3 in a possible 2000 dollar model a full fledged media center/hub.

Check out the CES announcements.

It will allow you to stream

all of your compatible files via the XBox, which renders the fancy

Media Center PC into an overpriced file server...and Sony's bloated vision into an even grander vision of overkill compared to an ingenious use of network attached storage.