rcarlton Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Here is a picture of the cracks. I don't believe they are salvageable. Oh well, I'll have a speaker with 1/21" veneer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Enhanced photo of the cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Close up of one of the cracks. There are hundreds of these cracks, many are smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Try to acclimatise the veneer and the speakers in the same room where they will be glued for a week or two. I don't know for sure if that will help, but I know that real hardwood flooring needs to be acclimatized for a while before laying, otherwise you end up with big gaps, and creaking everywhere from shrinkage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Try to acclimatise the veneer and the speakers in the same room where they will be glued for a week or two. I don't know for sure if that will help, but I know that real hardwood flooring needs to be acclimatized for a while before laying, otherwise you end up with big gaps, and creaking everywhere from shrinkage. Oh, so THAT"S what went wrong with my hardwood floors. They're 2 years old and sound just like my old farmhouse. I'm sooo mad at my brother for being in a hurry. We took it out of the boxes, sorted it, and went to work- in the summer. Now that it's winter and dry, it creaks with every footfall! arrrggghhh I had no idea that the veneer was that fragile. If it can't last through that small of a temperature variation in the 'wet glue' stage, what's to make anyone think it's strong enough to withstand temp or humidity changes even once the glue is cured? Is modern home-applied veneer much thinner than the counterparts we might buy from factory applied veneer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Not to hijack the thread, but to answer Michael Colter, yes that is what happened. The moisture content in a new home and an older home differ, as well as the moisture content in the wood as stored at the store. Consious contractors ( people that actually care ) let the flooring acclimatize in the actual room, monitoring the percentage of moisture content with a meter. This may take a month or more. Most contractors are the type to just bang it down and not care, others are professional and actually care about doing the jobs right, this is where the shade-tree and professionals differ. It is really hard to find people that take pride in a job done well. IMO professionals in all fields are few and far between. Sorry to hear that colter, just sucks that that happened to you, no one's fault, just that you and your brother did not know any better. There is a real difference there, just like a "contractor" knowing better and doing it wrong in the interest of getting paid and moving on to the next job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Tried again on Saturday...warmer outside, in the work room it was 70. Filled in all the cracks, sanded. Waited 72 hours so glue was completely cured. Glued another sheet of veneer down...started cracking in minutes! Put a hold on the project until warmer weather. Will make sure the humidity is over 50% and I might put a light coat of oil on immediately after sticking the veneer down. Edit: Still making the mistake of using the water based contact cement...when will I learn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Didn't want to end my Saturday on a downer...so I finished sanding the walnut Heresy. One coat of Tung oil so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Heresy II after 6 coats of Tung oil. Hand rubbed between each coat. The oiled walnut Cornwall's in the background are a little redder in color. These are finished in Tung oil also, but it took only 5 coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Close up showing the grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 That walnut is beautiful, perhaps it could act as a center while the other gets a workout being a guinea pig for veneer? Is that veneer just too darned thin? Seems like an awful problem you're having and I've never heard of that type of difficulty before. Makes me want to think twice before embarking on my summer veneer project (I'd meant to get it done last year, but since I don't have a barn due to legal/zoning issues with this house- arrrggghghh[:@]) MH- I think we had the hardwood in the house for a few days and had the A/C on. We carefully adjusted the nail gun to the right pressure and hit it about every 8", with no end joints near each other. Perhaps the subfloor is too bouncy? There is some sagging because they used 2x10 floor joists. Think I'm going to get into the crawl spaces and put a beam down the middle to stiffen the structure. Perhaps that will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 That walnut is beautiful, perhaps it could act as a center while the other gets a workout being a guinea pig for veneer? Is that veneer just too darned thin? Seems like an awful problem you're having and I've never heard of that type of difficulty before. Makes me want to think twice before embarking on my summer veneer project (I'd meant to get it done last year, but since I don't have a barn due to legal/zoning issues with this house- arrrggghghh[:@]) Michael, The combination of using the nonflammable contact cement and the change in humidity apparently caused the cracks.The wood simply dried out and shrunk some. In order to shrink something had to give, hence the cracks. I have two more Heresy I's all stripped and ready to go. Today I intend to paint black lacquer on the motor boards and rear panels. Should contrast well with the Bubinga. Yesterday (in a sandstorm no less) I did a lot of sanding and filling of the spoiled veneer. I'm debating on using the filler as a sealer over the whole veneer before adding another sheet. I will change to the flammable contact cement. I can't imagine sanding and scraping off two layers of veneer. I've got two Heresy I's all stripped and ready for veneer. As far as using the Walnut Heresy as a center...certainly thought about it. Would be interesting to see if it can outdo my unmodded KLF-C7. Would have to mount it on the wall above the TV if it wins in the shoot out. Edit: Turns out the Heresy did do a better job as a center channel. I no longer have the KLF-C7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 If you seal it right after laying it down, how will the glue cure? Or if the wood is that thin and possibly porous, could the oil seep through and ruin the adhesion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 If you seal it right after laying it down, how will the glue cure? Or if the wood is that thin and possibly porous, could the oil seep through and ruin the adhesion? Good question. I went to the DAP site and found this information: "Trimming or finishing operations may be performed immediately after bonding." Sounds like I will be OK. Edit: Bought a book on veneering which echoed colterphoto1's concerns. They recommended waiting a few days until the glue is set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Here is what an edge view looks like with the cracks sealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 A little closer view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Disaster[:'(]! Yesterday the weather changed in Dallas for the cooler...no big deal...speaker is in the spare bedroom. Woke up this morning and found the veneer covered with little cracks running with the grain. Oh, no[8o|]! suspect two things could have happened: 1. Temperature in the spare bedroom dropped below 65 degrees...I checked the temperature...62 degrees. 2. Having the furnace on all night decreased the humidity and caused the cracks. Leaning toward the low temperature as the culprit[^o)]. No big deal...only loss is some of my time and 2 18"X38" pieces of veneer. Have 10 more left. Will fill in all the cracks with putty, sand with 150 sandpaper and reapply veneer this weekend. Should go much faster since I'll know what I'm doing[]. Ron... I am really sorry about your disaster... that's certainly no way to begin your day; espcially a day that you thought would have been spent continuing your excellent project progress. Anyway, from my own veneering experience, may I offer two observations - neither of which may have any bearing on what is going on with your mysterious cracks: (1) Highly figured veneer is, by its very nature, difficult to work with and often gives more 'surprises' than you want. Burls, and other really nifty figures, are routinely 'filled' before finishing by even the best woodworkers to hide cracks, splits, etc. (2) I have never had any good results using water-based contact cement with veneer. Never. The stinkey, explosive stuff is - in my own experience - far superior (and it introduces NO water into your veneer). But despite your modest set back(s), your refinishing will be a success... Have a good week! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 I've thought about using the flammable contact cement. I figure to sacrifice one more sheet of veneer. More changes will be made and the glue is first on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Sacrificed a small piece of veneer. Used the flammable glue (cheaper too). No cracks...2 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 My new work area...formal dining room. In the background are two Heresy I's waiting for some Bubinga veneer. Hope the flammable contact cement works[O] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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