What's Up with Neil Young ?

[mas]

I still miss your point. "He knew". Oh, I hear it. And I have read it. And the point is????

If you don't want to buy it, don't. Others may want to hear it, and for them its great.

Buck, this is one of those discussions where the problem is not encountered
at step 27 or 49 in the discourse, but rather in the premise of the
question to begin with. And I have to respectfully disagree.

I love this strange standard you have for those who make a living as an 'artist' and sell their work as opposed to going in and working 8 to 5. But I guess that after you turn 50 and have worked for "30 years" you will simply do it for free as you wouldn't want to "market yourself" after all these years and after you have glutted the market with your presence for so long. So I guess 'forced retirement' would be a good alternative. Oh, but for some reason someone who is "still alive" has special rules and obligations...because those who were younger 30 years ago are 30 years older now... And the point is?

Anyone is entitled to release whatever they choose, be it one item or a million items. If the market does not want it, then it doesn't have to buy it. Its that simple. But I find it hilarious and totally absurd that anyone can presume to judge whether someone is too commercial with their livelihood - their work. And that is exactly what it is! A means of making a livelihood to which you have somehow attributed some mystical status that says that they cannot or should not present it for sale.

So let's start by limiting the number of times a song can be played on the radio, and place restrictions on the number of concert dates. After all, there is evidently some arbitrary line over which they may or have crossed. After all, they have some obligation not to be "commercial", as after all, what they do is pure altruism, as opposed to the serious work others do as they, say, work at Wal-Mart or repair vehicles or work as an accountant for a state agency or sell insurance.

Or does this arbitrary standard only apply to those who earn a certain amount of money?

Well, I suggest that we should extend the same strange logic to everyone, and force them to limit their endeavors and to stop working after a certain number of days, or dollars, or whatever arbitrary metric one chooses as well...or at least to stop accepting money for their work as we wouldn't want them to saturate the market with their presence. And I don't care if he is rich or dirt poor! Right...

But then I guess we could extend this logic to not charging for any product "that is 30 years old". So I guess old cars, old guitars, all antiques, old McIntosh, Klipsch and tube gear should officially be designated as having no value. And for that matter, anyone who has worked for 30 years, or perhaps who is 30 years old or older, is now to be declared to have no marketable value. So step right up and take your place in the menagerie! Of course, perhaps that assumes that "they knew" that they had reached that arbitrary and critical "30 year" mark.

The notion is totally absurd, as is this entire nonsense about the legitimacy of someone marketing "old" material. But then I always seem to find it a bit ludicrous when someone else tries to impose their own subjective value upon what others do or think. The limit of whatever you feel should be limited to your own actions. If it doesn't interest you, by all means, Don't buy it. And by all means, you are certainly entitled to debate the issue in words. But too suggest that others (aside from yourself) should adhere to this notion...

Bottomline, I reject the notion that anyone, myself included, can or should even suggest the imposition of such an arbitrary designation and restriction on someone else. And I reject the notion that any such a concept is even valid, as it is so arbitrary...regardless of the job or the product or the reason that one is engaged in producing or doing something. If 'they' want to do it, fine. If not, fine. But I find it absurd that anyone else should even contemplate imposing such a restriction on anyone other than themself. If you don't want to buy it. Don't. But that should definitely be the limit of such a concept. And I hope that you are altruistic enough to apply the same concept to yourself.

[]

Maybe we will just have to thumb wrassle to settle this conundrum! ...Winner buys the beer!

[]

[oldbuckster]

Point is : He is part of the Big Business approach to music, He is no different than anyone else, all this New Old Product aimed at a certain generation that has more money to spend. Did he offer at a special rate, no top dollar, is all concert material releashed at one time, no, buy it 3 or 4 times to get the whole set........I have nothing against Neil Young, but this type of tactic to sell more product is not right, He's not the only one, he just happened to be the example I used.......Agree or dis-agree, it doesn't matter to me, that's my point of view on it........How many times will you buy Malley hall to get the whole set.........2 times , 3 times.......Digital Remastered, can't be any good, it's digital......I HAVE HEARD THE MUSIC, if you like acoustic Neil, you'll be in seventh heaven.........I didn't say Neil was no good, or in any way did I degrade his talent, I have a problem with this flood of product, that was held back for all these years, now releashed. They knew what they were doing, they know who has the money. Don't kid yourself, it's all about MONEY, or is Neil above making money?..............

[mas]

The record company's job is to make money. The people who work for the record company receive wages. The distributors expect to be paid as well. The "bizness" is not simply NEIL (or any other artist who sees relatively little of the revenue from a recorded work and who receive most of the revenue from live performances!

The music industry is a business. And I am tired of this amazement that they actually market material. Duh!

What business have you been involved in? Or did you simply do your job for free out of the kindness of your heart.

I don't care if it is Neil Young or Tiny Tim or Beethoven. I don't care who they are nor what they play!

I love how you attempt to make some arbitrary distinction between musical performers and others who 'work' for a living.

Gee whiz, Klipsch charges for their speakers. Microsoft charges for their software. BMW charges money for their cars! And they even intentionally utilize planned obsolescence just so you will want the new model!!!

Where is your righteous indignation for them?

I don't have anything against anyone doing whatever they like (assuming its legal) to make money. Making money is not evil where I live. And I am tired of the foaming at the mouth over someone, ANYONE, selling a product and making a reasonable profit.

As I mentioned, it is an absurd and arbitrary notion that assumes some amazing, but not in evidence, distinction between folks who make money by performing and others who have 'jobs'. Like it or not, they are all jobs. And this debate is absurd.

When was the last time you worked for free? And when was the last time you refused a check because someone else decided that you should have worked for free, as you were "all about money".

I guess the real message is: EVERYONE should be working for free as everyone is motivated to go to work simply to receive a wage. The Bastards!!!

Wow, that notion will turn the world upside down...

Get over it. Such selective attention. Go lecture the clerk at WalMart how they should be working for free. I bet they will be simply enthralled...

[oldbuckster]

Get over this..............If Neil ok's everything, then he knows........Why are all your responses so negative lately? If you like big business picking your pockets clean.......So Be it.......I let this thread DIE, you choose to bring it back, I am entitled to my opinion, you can agree or not, I don't care. Where did I state he should put out the material for FREE..........Where, point that out to me.....I have the FINAL say, when I decide to buy, or not buy. Why 30 years later is this product coming out......Why isn't it all included and releashed once, if it's about the fans ? Your RIGHT, this is pointless, my opinion WILL NOT change on this matter.....Guess I'll go preach to some deaf people, maybe they will listen.........EH !!!!!!!..........Geez.............

[mas]

This is just some 'classist' rant. Oh, and its all "big business".

If they want to put the material out in every permutation and every combination they can. And it doesn't make them evil. It simply gives the consumers more choice, And face it, everyone who is messing with a stereo is a consumer!

I do disagree. But then I don't have any fantasies for or against "Big Business". I understand the fundamental mission of business without delusion of fantastic expectations.

And why are they able to release it now 30 years later? For one, he did not dictate when it came out earlier. Like the artist could tell "Big Business" that he wanted various live and excluded tracks released then.

And likewise the record company could not simply take whatever they wanted and release it whenever they wanted.

So there were plenty of reasons not to release material then...for many artists. It was the norm, not the exception!

Funny, I don't hear rants about Dylan's older recorded material being released, including volumes of what was formerly bootleg items. And I think its great that it is finally released in better form than it was available in earlier. I am now able to replace many of the old bootleg albums. But then the record company and artist, either individually or together, chose not to release them in the 60's. It must be a conspiracy! The irony is that there were more who would have eagerly bought it then when it was a hot marketable commodity then now when the artist is an aging statesman.

Back then both of the artist's releases were hot sellers and dominated the charts when they were released. Now they barely appear on the charts, as neither are large sellers. Oh I feel so dirty being abused by "Big Business".

If this is all a conspiracy, the record companies and the artists, both, are marketing idiots, as they have released the material at the lowest point in the respective careers of the artists. But then I guess Rhino is driving Warner Brothers now too, as they remaster and re-issue old albums. And releasing the remaining unreleased Carpenters songs now, when they are a nostalgia group for many, and the younger folks don't even know who they were, is certainly a swooft coup as well.

"Big business is simply picking out pockets clean" by releasing TRex's previously unreleased tracks and alternative takes? And the unreleased studio and live archives of Genesis going to reap the companies billions of dollars as well - as, well, hey, everyone is simply clamoring for TRex and old Genesis! Especially as most of the younger market goes "who"?? Now, if they would only release more old Tull, they could retire to count all of their piles of money as they rape the market. But why didn't they release EVERYTHING they had back when? There can be many reasons, but no, let's assume its a 'conspiracy'! Get real...

They have the material. It is not a large seller for any of the artists. I think its great they are releasing it. Releasing the material simply gives us more choice. If the companies make some money, fine, that is what they are in business to do. If the artist makes some money, they are certainly entitled to it. And if we do or don't want to buy it, well that is our choice as well.

"He is part of the Big Business approach to music, He is no different
than anyone else, all this New Old Product aimed at a certain
generation that has more money to spend. Did he offer at a special
rate, no top dollar"...Hmmm. Really? Let's see. Live at Massey Hall, CD & DVD is $19.48. And CD alone is $13.97 for 17 songs. Cheaper per unit now then in 1975 dollars. Sorry. Wrong.

But I would rather have greater choice than less choice. And many of the tapes suffer from the early recording processes and the newer technology have been able to 'restore' them to a more acceptable level that was not possible before.

But ranting that companies are in business to make a profit is simply ludicrous. Besides, "big business does not pick our pockets dry". If someone's pockets are dry, it is because Individuals voluntarily GAVE them their money! No one is forcing anyone to buy product against their will.

If you have a complaint, the only legitimate complaint might be that you do not have the discipline to refuse to buy that which you evidently do not want. Otherwise, all you are really complaining about is that others who may be interested in the material that was not then considered prime material, have a greater choice then ever before. And are we too assume that this is a bad thing! I think Not!

And "why isn't it released once"? Haha! How many times do YOU buy it!? You are right, they should have released the live material on CD in 1973.

Record companies and artists, and in fact, all companies, are in the business to make money by providing a service. But now that is an evil thing. Nonsense.

And the nice thing is that you don't have to change your mind! Because we get to make a choice!

In fact, we have greater choice. And that's a good thing. And everyone wins!

[oldbuckster]

WOW, You need to take a deep breathe.................Burr under your saddle ??.........Whatever, Dude, Whatever......[:$]

[tuned4life]

Get over this..............If Neil ok's everything, then he knows........Why are all your responses so negative lately? If you like big business picking your pockets clean.......So Be it.......I let this thread DIE, you choose to bring it back, I am entitled to my opinion, you can agree or not, I don't care. Where did I state he should put out the material for FREE..........Where, point that out to me.....I have the FINAL say, when I decide to buy, or not buy. Why 30 years later is this product coming out......Why isn't it all included and releashed once, if it's about the fans ? Your RIGHT, this is pointless, my opinion WILL NOT change on this matter.....Guess I'll go preach to some deaf people, maybe they will listen.........EH !!!!!!!..........Geez.............

I was chopping down a palm tree when a friend dropped by to ask if I would feel less lonely if he helped me swing the axe. I said, "No, it's not a case of being lonely we have here. I've been working on this palm tree for 87 years. He said " go get lost" and walked toward his Cadillac. I chopped down the palm tree and it landed on his back.

[oldbuckster]

[li][st][8-)].........................EH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Audio Flynn]

My daughter bought me Massey Hall.

Guitar and piano is recorded very well. Neil voice is in good form. Heart of Gold on piano is a version I do not remember hearing before.

More impressions after a few more listens.

[mas]

WOW, You need to take a deep breathe.................Burr under your saddle ??.........Whatever, Dude, Whatever......[:$]

The irony? I don't care what Neil or ANY other artist does.

Nor do I care what "Big Business" does.

You're the one with your panties in a wad worrying about a free market and someone else's business. Especially if you don't want to buy the product. But keep us posted with the other hot events featured on Entertainment Tonight. "But he knew!!!" Soooo what?... Yawn... "Point is : He is part of the Big Business approach to music, He is no different than anyone else..." Yawn... Old indeed...as in some tired old left market exploitation rant... Business wants to make a profit! [][] If that bothers you, you must love the Detroit automakers!

Watch out folks, the old guy may wake up and discover American Idol.

What is really funny is that entire thread can be easily summed up as:

Old fart wakes up and discovers that both Artists and the 'Music Industry' seek to make a profit!

WooHoo! Wait for the next shocking thread to be entitled: "Water is wet!" [][*-)]

[mas]

For all of you utterly aghast that someone might release OLD material, you will be truly aghast at this!

Love Songs of the '70s
Donny Osmond

"Musically speaking, children of the '70s subscribe to a tribe
mentality: Former Stooges fanatics may have little in common with
onetime discomaniacs at first glance, but get them together and odds
are they'll bond over a mutual belief that Cliff Richard's "We Don't
Talk Anymore" was, for its time, one hot track. Which is why Donny
Osmond did himself a favor by recording this batch of retreads--what he
loses in nostalgia points for making a disc without Marie (all these
years later, there's still an element that prefers a little bit of
country with its little bit of rock'n'roll), he makes up for in
timeless material that, not incidentally, is very well sung. It's
possible to hear Dan Hill's ever-tender "Sometimes When We Touch" here
without missing Hill for a second, for instance. And because Donnie's
nice-guy reputation precedes him by decades, he's a natural at putting
his own sunshiny spin on Johnny Nash's "I Can See Clearly Now." If Love Songs
disappoints even a sliver, it's because the title limits the song
selection to disallow tracks that could have formed an equally
enjoyable record: "Goofy Songs of the 70s." Suffice it to say that Leo
Sayer's "When I Need You" leaves a listener with a deep hankering to
hear Donnie's rendition of "You Make Me Feel Like Dancin'," too. --Tammy La Gorce




Product Description
There were some nights
during his triumphant starring run as the villainous Gaston in the
Broadway production of Beauty and the Beast when Donny Osmond's mind
was racing. No, he wasn't trying to remember his next line; rather, he
was thinking about the album he was in the process of recording.
Backstage. In his dressing room. "It was totally bizarre" he laughs. "I
would perform my role onstage, and then I would run back to my dressing
room and fix a vocal I didn't like. Sometimes it was just a word; other
times it was an entire verse or chorus.

The
album is called Love Songs of the 70s, and once you hear it, you'll
know why. Donny gave it his all -- he could perform vocals to completed
musical tracks in his dressing room whenever he liked, a ritual he
followed each afternoon -- and, as it so happened, some nights as well.
Describing himself as a "Type-A perfectionist," Donny admits his that
work habits might have confounded his co-stars. "But when a record
means as much as this one, you do whatever it takes to make it
special."

True to its title, Love Songs of the 70s is a
collection of some of the most memorable romantic pop and R&B
ballads of a golden, multi-platinum era. Just a casual glance at some
of the songs will transport listeners back to a special place in their
lives: "Laughter in the Rain," "Oh, Girl," "If," "Let's Stay Together,"
"How Deep Is Your Love," "You Are So Beautiful," -- these are some of
the priceless selections Donny has chosen for this remarkable set.
"That's what's so amazing about these songs," says Donny. "They're time
capsules, capable of moving you in so many powerful ways. What's more,
if a song is truly a classic, as these certainly are, their importance
grows through the decades because of what you, the listener, bring to
them. I've always loved hearing these songs, and I especially love
singing them.""

Still the Same...Great Rock Classics Of Our Time
Rod Stewart

"Unquestionably one of rocks greatest vocalists, Rod Stewart should have titled this album Great Rock Classics of My Time.
Most of these Top 40 tunes and others like Dylan's "If Not for You"
were popularized in the early to mid-'70s, when Stewart was entering
his rock prime. He's perfect to croon Elvin Bishop's "Fooled Around and
Fell in Love," soulfully pained on Bonnie Tyler's "It's a Heartache,"
and right in the pocket on the Pretenders' "I'll Stand by You." And his
unmistakable raspiness puts another layer of wisdom on the old Cat
Steven's classic "Father & Son." But you also have to wonder about
some of the safe song choices, such Badfinger's "Day After Day" and
Nazareth's "Love Hurts." Why he continues to record mossy cover songs
is a legitimate question. What's stopping him from getting back in
trenches with some contemporary rock songwriters and really reinventing
himself? The karaoke lounge is no place for a guy this great to hang." --Martin Keller

No indeed!!! [:|]

OK, and now perhaps there is real reason for concern! []

The Greatest Songs of the Fifties
Barry Manilow

The Greatest Songs of the Sixties
Barry Manilow

The only reason I discovered these soon to be classics was that I was looking for old Neil Young songs!

I truly hope that SOMEONE makes some money from this! Can you imagine any other reason to release this?

I am truly shocked! ROFLMAO!

[mas]

And for more pure market exploitation...

Just when you thought they were dead, here are several CDs of interchangeable tunes designed to exploit the market!!

Bagpipe Wedding Music CD by Michael Hamilton

Bagpipe Funeral Music CD by Michael Hamilton

How can you top this endorsement:

"Purchased this CD looking for funeral music to play ... Music was satisfactory altho the
selections are rather short..."

Now be nice and no one hurt anyone else running to buy these selections! Wait until after you have the funeral CD! They will thank you for being so considerate!

[][:S]

[mas]

Is anyone aware of the dire straits and the true extent of this problem that is facing us by a music industry run amuck!?!?!

New Ancient Strings
Ballake Sissoko, Toumani Diabate

Amazon.com

Back in the early '70s, a recording by kora masters Sidiki Diabate and Djelimadi Sissoko called Cordes Anciennes first brought this rich acoustic music of Mali to the world. More than 20 years later, their sons, the now world-famous Toumani Diabate and the junior Ballake Sissoko, have come together to pay tribute to their fathers with 1999's New Ancient Strings.
While many of the songs come from the original repertoire, the music is
all modern Mali. Toumani Diabate has toured the world as a soloist, as
a member of fusion groups like Songhai
(with flamenco fusionist Ketama), and he has incorporated subtle
changes into his music that makes it a living affirmation of the
strength of the ancient harp of Africa. Together Diabate and Sissoko
explore their fathers' roots while traveling their own new routes. This
is the first all-acoustic kora recording Diabate has done since his stunning Kaira, released more than 10 years prior to New Ancient Strings, and it shows a mature and forward-looking artist that would make the elder Diabate proud. --Louis Gibson

Ancient Egypt

by Ali Jihad Racy

Synaulia - Music from Ancient Rome, Vol. 1: Wind Instruments by Gaetano Delfini, Luce / Ravenstein, Natalia van Maioli, Walter
Maioli, Walter / Maioli, Luce Maioli, and Walter / Maioli, Luce /
Ravenstein, Natalia van / Maioli

Be sure to get ALL of the volumes!

Ancient Egypt: Music of the Age of the Pyramids

by Javier Rodríguez, Rafael Arroyo, Rafael Arroyo, Hathor Ensemble, and Juan Carlos Gómez Delgado

Music of the Ancient Greeks

by Ensemble De Organographia, Anonymous, Athenaeus, Euripides, and Limenius

Meditation Music of Ancient Egypt

by Gerald Jay Markoe

Talk about targeting this at the 'older generation'! I am personally offended by the commercialization of such treasures!

[oldbuckster]

Hey Mas,deep down inside your probably a good guy, but what is with all the negative posts from you? The recording industry has maybe gotten too big and their quest for more profit has affected everyone. Are you happy with CD prices, gee dvd's seem to be a better dollar for dollar buy than CD's. The Vinyl that they let get to the market place, do you like those prices? Those poor big recording stars eating hot dogs and beans everynight, and poor guys like Neil, without a penny in their pockets. Yeah, I guess I'm being too hard on a Billion Dollar a year business, foolish me. Recording Industry, Oil Companies, what's the difference? I guess you are right, I'm just an old blowhard that's against Big Business making a profit......Wish I could met you in person, Your such a brave man behind a keyboard, what the hey, it's Easter, so Peace to you ,troubled one.

I have heard Massey Hall, it is good, nice digital remix, but I will pass or I will get a burnt copy, ooops, I'm a thief, too..............EH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!