lonebuck Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Just acquired a MINT Dual CS5000 and looking for best matched catridge. Considering AT 440 mla, Ortofon OM20, Denon DL103, Shure M97XE and possibly Shure V15VxMR.I am still all ss, but a 300B integated amp is still a future consideration. Listen to everything... classical, jazz, rock, etc.. I understand DL103 is moving coil (my 3250b has phono stage inputs for MC as well) although I have never used it. A good friend suggests that the Denon DL103 is the way to go with my system, but I don't know if it will work well with the CS5000. Dual C5000 manual recommends Ortofon, but I understand they were almost together at that time and that it reproduces classical and jazz real well (left the rock out). I have read nothing but rave reviews about the AT 440mla and I like the pricing (about $100) many comparing it more favorably than the Shure king (V15VxMR. Not Shure (pun intended) it's worth the $500.00 price tag for a discontinued cartridge. Finally, Shure still has the M97XE, supposedly a very good cartridge for around $100, but according to what I've read doesn't rank with the AT 440 mla. I have been told that this CS5000 has a "low mass" tone arm and that the Shure (either cartridge) is not a match with this TT. Thanks,Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Try the Ortofon. The OM20 is good, and later you can simply buy the replacement stylus for an upgrade to an OM30 fine line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Well... AT is good, but how good are your ears?...... I've had a couple AT's years ago, and I don't recall any problems. I don't want to cause a s'storm in the opinion area. So, just from my experience only.... The M97XE is a very, very good N/C; just bought two of them last year; first new N/C's I bought since 1986. My old M-97HE's finally just wore out and died. Back in the day, I compared the V-15's to the original 97 HE (hyperelliptical), and weighed the costs, etc. There was some S/N ratio differences, but not enough to warrant the extra couple $100. Oh well.... V-15's are great, but are they really worth the money? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on your "ears", your wallet, and how good your system is. From the TT viewpoint, I've had Duals, an AR, a boatload of Thorens (115's, 125's, 160's, etc), and finally just gave up a couple years ago; switched from "fine wine to industrial beer" and bought a Technics SL-1200-MIII, which, after all the warranty crap, breakage, repairs, etc., for the Thorens, is the most consistent and reliable (and performing) TT I've ever owned. Who knows. What does Dual ask for in N/C weight for the CS5000? Shure's are generally relatively low mass. I track my 97's at only about 1 - 1.25 gms on all of the TT's and never really had any skippy or strong left/right problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 If the CS5000 really does have a low mass tonearm, the Denon might not be the best match for it. On paper anyway. You never really know until you try it. The Denon is supposed to sound best with High Mass arms. It is also a low output moving coil cartridge so you will need a preamp capable of handling it. Most common preamps can't handle moving coils. Personally, given how small the vinyl market is, I can't believe we have as many cartridge choices as we do. There are so many choices and so few people can possibly have heard more than a dozen for any length of time. I really like the Goldring line for the money. Grado's are very good but will hum on some tables. The Dynavector I have is awesome. I have a hard time not reccomending any of the cartridges you named. There's forum member, Mike Lindsey, used to have a CS5000. Hopefully, he'll chime in with what he was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Great idea! If Mike Lindsey has recommendations from his experiences, or anyone else with the Dual; that would probably help you alot in the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I used a Shure V15V-MR (not the V15VxMR) and it was an excellent fit with that turntable. It's a cartridge with a very high compliance, which is a very good fit for the low mass tonearm on the CS-5000. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Just to repeat what others have said. Not the Denon on a low mass arm. Compliance is too low and tracking weight too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WopOnTour Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I own a CS-606 (use it mostly for ripping LP to CD) almost with the same Kardon ULM (Ultra Low Mass) tonearm as the CS5000 IIRC the effective mass of the 5000 arm (that uses conventional 2 fastener cartridge mounting) is 6.5g (The the single fastener mount version of this arm used on my 606 has I believe a paltry 5.1g effective mass) Based on the carts you mention, you dont really commit that you are specifically looking for a moving coil cartridge so I'm going to assume that's not the primary criteria. As most all have confirmed the Denon is really a "Rega arm" cartridge and not a good match for the Dual arm with respect to resonance. IMHO you should be looking for a cartridge with a high compliance of 18-25 um/Nm AND a relatively low cartridge mass say between 4-6grams . Then just pick a price range.(and/or MM or MC which is basically equipment dependant) The Shure V15vmxr WOULD fit this bill of course (6.6g / 25um) as does the tried and true Ortofon OM series which come standard with the original CS-5000 (OM10?) which is 5g and 25um. As someone else mentioned the OM30 nude line (35um?) is a significant upgrade. A special single fastener version of the OM20 known as the TKS55E came standard with the ULM arm on my CS-606 and weighs in at only 2.9g! Other good mathematical matches would be: Dynavector 10x3 HO MC (4.8/24) - if you can find one Goldring Erocia MC (5.5/18) - excellent choice for MC ~$450 Grado Prestige MM -Gold/Silver (5.5/20)- meh Grado Reference MC (6.5/20)- sure if you can afford it, perhaps overkill on a $500 TT?? But my personal moving magnet recommendation for the Duals using the ULM arm is the Roksan Corus-Black (made by Goldring UK) It has a mass of 6.5g and a compliance of 24um/Nm. IMO it's easily one of the best MM carts under $500 and retails for $350 (although they go for much less on eBay) I had been using an OM20 with my Dual for a couple years but was totally blown away by the Corus http://www.roksan.co.uk/cor_cartridge.html Good luck and enjoy the Dual , they are a nice deck HTH WopOnTour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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