How do Tubes sound?

[meagain]

I thought it was common knowledge that when bi amping speakers you would drive the bass with solid state and the mids/treble with tubes. Simply because tubes cannot cut the mustard when it comes down to good tight low bass.

Don't most all Scotts have tone controls. Do you have to turn the bass control way up to get good BLOATED bass from your speakers?

IDK about that. I'm very very happy with the bass from my VRDs. It' slams IMO. Though I've not really compared it to other tubes nor have I compared it to an SS at that same price point.

[meagain]

SOUND, how do tubes SOUND- not tech talk about equipment please.

I'm wondering about peoples personal experiences with their reaction to the sound of tubes in contrast to what they've experienced with S/S.

Let's leave the equipment for another thread. I'm trying to decide if what I heard is a common occurence or just what can be expected.

Thanks, M.

Well, you listened to them.... I want to know what YOU think.

I must say, I had to listen to my HK AVR recently for a couple of days and I found it annoying in a bit of a non-descript way. Let's see.... It seemed less 'pretty'. More flat sounding (not as 3-d ish). Though again, vastly different price points. Not a fair comparison.

Speakerfritz - I want that!

[colterphoto1]

I dunno, I heard plenty of clean tight, very realistic bass out of the modest tube rig through my Khorns.

Remember this is not my 'concert' setup. I use my Khorn for modest-medium volumes. Probably next to nil power requirements.

[gonzp]

Mike,

To me tubes sound effortless in all of the frequencies, with the right speakers. I have heard high powered solid state through a pair of DQ-10's and it sounded very good. Tube amps to me, seem to give air to the notes. The sound does not sound forced or like anything is attached to it. When I hear a crash cymbal smacked I can hear it decay. The bass from the k-horns is punchy, quick and real, not bloated. I noticed seperation and more definition between the instruments. Klipsch speakers are the all tell magnifying glass in the audio chain. They definately bring forward the strengths and/or weakness' of upstream gear.

I am probably one of the only people that listens to my VRD's in triode mode. In triode mode I feel that I have got the midrange extension, great solid bottom end and the airyness that any SET amp will deliver, with the headroom to crank it up and, not have the amp fall on it's face. In Ultralinear mode I have got 60 watts of tube power that will definately drive the woofers on the k-horns. I have found the option of running the VRD's in triode mode is for me.

[Audio Flynn]

AF- I am trying to get other's opinions of the audible differences between tubes and solid state, their memory of their first real taste of the tube sound. Not so much an equipment discussion, but what to listen for, where the differences lie, that sort of thing.

CP1, I would think Audio Flynn would be able to tell you the difference very well. Don't mean to speak for him but if i remember correctly its only been about 4 years since he made the transformation. The way he speaks now i know its hard to tell but he too was an all ss man. And now he is probably one of the biggest advocates of bringing folks to tubes. Well besides Craig and Mark of course. I also remember AF turning to the great Chorus II[Y]

Sorry to speak for you AF but you really do try to help folks see the enjoyment that tubes have brought you. Keep it up.

It is in the little things...

-soundstage; for example each vocalist having a "space" during harmonies; no smearing ( I listen allot to the first CSN LP or CD to check this), instruments easy to find

- neck noise detail on guitars and violins, string windings

-Piano note string decay

-instruments should have bite (be crisp) when they really have bite; snare drum, ride cymbal, flute

-no smearing, not having to take a long time to find an instrument in the soundstage

Of course my upsampled 3 box CD playback although low budget helps the amplification quite a bit.

Hope this helps

[meagain]

IMO, you can get that with a crossover upgrade also. Colter, when are you going to ramp up the stock crossovers (if I have that right and you're running stock)?

[jbsl]

I decided on a EL 34 based amp, Cayin TA 30, because the EL 34 tube is known for great midrange and I wanted to tame and smooth the midrange on my La Scalas.

Which the amp has done and with tube rolling I have been able to go from a detailed sound to a overall balanced sound to the tubes I have now which gives me great detail and balance.

To me the tube amp gives the sound more body or more of a fuller sound. Compared to the solid state I have owned SS sounds thinner is the only word I know to describe it.

I am not saying all SS sounds this way just the ones I have used in my system. My Luxman int amp has a great sound very musical but my Cayin just sounds better.

[HarryO]

Michael,

Do you still have the big Crown SS amp there? I'll bring you over a good SS pre and let you borrow it. You can listen to high power ss for a couple of days and I'll match the AMC up against it. THe AMC is the least expensive and and what I consider the least musical of my collection. I'll still put the AMC against the Crown for overall sound quality and performance. The AMC will just sound better. Just like the other night. All the music will still be there.

Let me know.

HarryO

[colterphoto1]

Michael,

Do you still have the big Crown SS amp there? I'll bring you over a good SS pre and let you borrow it. You can listen to high power ss for a couple of days and I'll match the AMC up against it. THe AMC is the least expensive and and what I consider the least musical of my collection. I'll still put the AMC against the Crown for overall sound quality and performance. The AMC will just sound better. Just like the other night. All the music will still be there.

Let me know.

HarryO

DC300 is out on loan with a small PA right now. But I have some others if I can get them dug out...

[HarryO]

M,

Get you a good SS amp out and I'll run by with a good Preamp for you to use. I'll pick it up a couple of days later and you can listen to tubes again if you like. I've been running the AMC I brought over to burn in the tubes. It's sounding a lot better.

HarryO

[lwhaples]

Michael, The ST70 went out today. Happy waiting!

Larry

[colterphoto1]

THIS IS SOOO COOL [H]

Thanks Larry! You're my new hero!

Michael

[dbflash]

michael,

i was going to answer your question 6 pages ago, but i couldn't really come up with a good answer.

tubes sound like you first heard music when you were younger, at least for me. my first stereo was a 8 track and a little tube amp with a pair of speakers that had just a pair of mid'd in them.

i think this sez it all:

"I'll tell ya about the magic

It'll free your soul

but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll"

you have to listen for yourself and i cannot wait to read your review.

hope you enjoy your new amp.

danny

[colterphoto1]

Harry, got the Crown 300 back today, so with a little pre I could have a different system altogether than what we had on Friday.

M

[HarryO]

M,

I'll check to see when I can get a sitter for my 6 year old (yes I'm a single full time father in my mid 50s+) and we will do the A-B thing again. I'll bring a good matching Crown IC150 pre in perfect like new condition for your listening. The tubes will be burnt in very soon. I'm listening to Dark Side of the Moon right now. I've had the same AMC amp running for 3 straight days now. I'll bring the same Pas-2 pre and same tube cd player with the same Robert Cray. If you want to get Nasty, I'll bring the EL34 Triad mono blocks.

BTW, I heard you received a message on your cell today. Your move.

Glad to help out buddy.

HarryO

[HarryO]

Michael,

Do you have the 1/4" to phono plug cables for the Crown to preamp?

My mechanic likes tubes too! He called and told me he couldn't fix my brakes on the van so he hooked up a tube amp to the horn to make it louder!

HarryO

[cjgeraci]

Mike,

To me tubes sound effortless in all of the frequencies, with the right speakers. I have heard high powered solid state through a pair of DQ-10's and it sounded very good. Tube amps to me, seem to give air to the notes. The sound does not sound forced or like anything is attached to it. When I hear a crash cymbal smacked I can hear it decay. The bass from the k-horns is punchy, quick and real, not bloated. I noticed seperation and more definition between the instruments. Klipsch speakers are the all tell magnifying glass in the audio chain. They definately bring forward the strengths and/or weakness' of upstream gear.

I am probably one of the only people that listens to my VRD's in triode mode. In triode mode I feel that I have got the midrange extension, great solid bottom end and the airyness that any SET amp will deliver, with the headroom to crank it up and, not have the amp fall on it's face. In Ultralinear mode I have got 60 watts of tube power that will definately drive the woofers on the k-horns. I have found the option of running the VRD's in triode mode is for me.

Patrick, love your comments about VRDs in triode mode - and I agree with your characterizations about the VRDs and the sound of tubes in general.

Actually, I bet that a few of us listen to VRDs in that mode, and I personally spend quite a bit of time in triode.

That being said, its great to have UL when you want it.........

Carl.

[oldbuckster]

HarryO......6 year old....Single...Full time Father at 50......WAY TO GO....My deepest Respect......[Y]...Hat's Off 2 U.....

[HarryO]

OB,

Thanks

I blame it on drugs and alcohol. I should have done more of both. I couldn't have been in this position. It's lifechanging for sure. Really cool though! He has good taste in tunes. Led Zepplin and Pink Floyd and Elmo's World are his favorites. OH, I almost forgot Acumatata from The Lion King! Catchy tune. Up to a year or so ago I worked in an office in the suit thing. My co-workers thought I'd lost it when I went around whistling "Elmo's World" all the time. Heck, maybe I had. I like my life now. I wouldn't trade with anyone on earth.

For all you part time Dads and Moms, I thought sending my support check every payday and seeing my kids only on the weekends I felt like it, I got news for you. You forgot you were a parent. My hat is off to all you gals out there that are single moms raising kids without much help. I think I know how you do it now. My deepest respect for the grueling task you have. I'm lucky in the fact I have multiple and transferable trade skills. I am able to provide being my own boss and setting rules as our life needs them. Don't forget your kids. I know of nothing more important in this life.

HarryO

[DrWho]

I seriously KNOW, not think. I'm very familiar with Crown. I've been running the big tranny SS since Aug 74 when I went to twin DC300s, IC150, 700series R2R, Nak cassette, Soundcraftsmen Eq, and 4 ESS Heil Rock Monitors I bought from Sound Pro at 116th and Keystone on the north side of Indy. I retired a tired old Sansui 1000 tube receiver. I still have Crown DC300s and PS400s here now. I just pulled the 400s and put in tubes again less than 2 months ago. I'm running the Crites Eminence K-33 cast frame 400w replacements in my speakers. I just sold EV 700 Patricians with the 18" in them. YES, the tubes kicked harder than the SS. I have a pair of Krell 200w amps here now. Ultra clean sound but I most definitely find them lacking in power and "thump" They would NOT drive my Carver Amazing Silvers with 3 12" woofs and the 48" ribbons. An old Kenwood Kr-6050 SS actually drove them much harder. I can get more bass especially at lower volumes with the tubes. The big SS amps can be turned up louder, and that is what it takes to get them to drive as hard, but I'm not trying to fill an auditorium either.

I use both tube and SS. They get A-B comparisons almost daily. The tubes definitely drive harder with what I HAVE HERE. I won't stereotype SS vs Tube as a whole, Just What I AM LISTENING TO HERE. Klipsch Heritage, Altec Valencias, Altec 604b, 604g, 416s, 515s, Jensen tri-ax gold frames, EV, OHM Walsh 1, and a few others. I "play" with this stuff for a second income as well as a hobby and get the opportunity to hear loads of gear. JMHO though.

Please let me say it again, I like solid state. I just love tubes. I'm not trying to argue or talk anyone into anything else or sell anything at all.

Enjoy the music in any form YOU like.

HarryO

What kind of music do you listen to? And what other crown amps have you played with? And is that an "audiophile thump" or a "better accuracy thump?" that you're describing?

Just trying to get a feel for where you're coming from.