HK AVR 645 Receiver or Emotiva LMC-1/LPA-1 Separates?

[Vladi]

Its time to get rid of my Sony STR-DA5ES receiver - finally!

My usage scenario is very simple: a single digital coax connection to my HTPC, 5.1 surround speakers in the living room, and 2 speakers in the bedroom.

My listening preferences are to listen to material as it was recorded, with out unneeded DSP processing.

I am looking at two options in my price range [less than 1K]:

1. Harman Kardon AVR 645

2. Emotiva LMC-1/LPA-1

Has anyone compared or owned these?

I currently have the HK AVR 645 in my home for audition, and it is much better than the Sony, no surprise there. To audition the Emotiva, I practically have to buy it. The HK is $699, and Emotiva $899. Is it worth the extra $200?

I read a few online reviews, and most a very positive, stating that Emotiva is a great value for the price, but my question is compared to what gear? Are the reviews so positive because the price is so low? What is the real deal here, are the Emotivas that much better?

I also read some forum posts reporting issue with the LMC-1 pre/pro.

As I cannot listen to Emotiva without purchasing, I am currently leaing towards HK. In addition I am worried that Emotiva is a very small company...

Any and all comments on the above will be greatly appreciated to help me decide.

[Fish]

I've owned several of the 6xx models,very nice with Klipsch,one of my favorite avrs.The Emotiva is easily worth the extra 200 but.......the lmc1 is not gonna offer all of the options the HK does.If you want a set that does everything,and you want to watch sat,channel surf etc.. the lmc1 is not the first choice.If you listen to music,concerts and sometimes HT the Ultra set is great,and you'll get 40% off next generation.

You also asked about compared to what.The Ultra set is comparable in sound and power to BK,Rotel,Outlaw sets I've owned/own at about $2-3k ,but lacks a few features of those sets,bk being feature rich but sounds similar.

[Vladi]

Fish,

Thanks for replying. My usage is about 70% HT (DVD - movies and concerts, HDTV recorded over the air) and 30% music. I don't have, and don't plan to have cable, dish, or any paid TV service.

About the LMPC-1 processor, when you say "lacks features" what do you mean by features? DSP modes like Logic 7 and other surround modes? EZSet EQ? Or do you mean speaker crossover, LFE bass management, speaker delay, etc. I read the LMC-1 manual, and my understanding is these settings are available. Will I be compromising DD/DTS decoding if I get LMC-1?

I am testing HK 645, and it has everyting I need plus a LOT of features that I will not use, like EZSet for example. I also turned off all surround modes - I like pure 2 channel fro music _{, and pure DD/DTS for movies and concerts. I like HK 645 sweet and warm sound, it is miles better than the Sony's harsh and boomy mixture of sound - honestly I don't know how I put up with it for such a long [5 years] time. I guess I didn't know any better, and didn't have budget to spend. I also like HK's ability to set delay for each channel independently, e.g. SL and SR can be positioned at a different distance from the listener, which is my case.}

_{Granted I don't need DSP surround features, is the LMC-1 still a better pre/pro than the HK 645, particularly in the DD/DTS decoding?}

_{Regarding power, I live in apartment building, and I am not listening at high volume, maximum probably 85-90db. Will I benefit any from LPA-1?}

_{To be honest, I am 95% decided on HK 645. I am only looking at Emotive because it's just $200 more for separates, and because of the good reviews of its sound and power. I don't want to compromise my HDTV and movie experience. Is the LMC-1 still a better choice?}

[tenzip]

You could try it out. They have a 30-day return policy. It would just cost you shipping one-way.

I'm really very satisfied with mine. FYI, the LMC-1 lets you set the distance for each speaker in .5 foot increments.

HTH

[Vladi]

tenzip, I read the reply in your post about Emotiva impressions. I can understand your satisfaction coming from a near bottom line receiver. From the HK line, 645 is second best after 745. Somehow I have the feeling i will be losing out with the LMC-1... I don't know, I guess I have no option but to order it and try it out... I just hate to lose on the shipping back.

[oldtimer]

I don't think you can lose, the general consensus is that separates are better, so sooner or later you will probably go that way. With separates you can change out processors while keeping the amp that you like, etc., there is a lot more flexibility.

[falcon20x]

My 0.2 cents,

I have a HK 645 ( my third HK receiver) while I do agree with all of you regarding the sound, features, etc...

Have you fully tested that receiver?

First thing, while HK has an oustanding service the quality of the product is not there anymore.

My first receiver ( hk 445) was broke right out of the box, I returned it for another one and the second one lock up a week after I got it. I decided to upgrade to the HK 645 ( because I got 50% off), the fact I got such a deal should have been a clue, this is a brand new model and it is already being heavly discounted without mentioning the fact that Ebay is flooded with refurbished units (another clue).

The 645 does weird things specially with with the EQ, depending on the setting sometimes I get the bass sometimes I don't. 

Let's talk about the video side: one day' after I spent the all day setting up the system I noticed the image was starting to become a little funny (color and  brightness) I turned the thing off for a hour so I could go eat and when I came back I could not get the image to come back on. One thing I need to mention is the fact that the On Screen Display is the only way to set it up and it only goes through the S-video plug so when you lose the video side of it guess what? You are screwed , you can't get anything done.

I left the receiver on the side  for a week, tried every day to see if it would work again, and it did but it took a week before I got the image back.

An another annoying thing is the  video switching, if you leave it on auto ( which you would if you have more then one video equipment hook up to the system) so the receiver can detect the signal and send it to the TV or projector, you will lose the signal every time you change something such as the volume or some setting, then I could ear the receiver ticking like a clock going through all the inputs searching for a signal. I fixed that by assigning  a given source to the audio part like VIDEO 1 componement input with the DVD function etc, but if you are using the 5.1 input you are out of luck, that one is only automatic no other choice so every time you change something you will looking at a blue screen for few secondes.

I did not try the HDMI since my projector does not have one but I would assume it would od  the same.

I think one of the major problem is the heat, that unit can not stand any at all.

My rack is wide open ( no boards on the side), the equipment has somwhere around 5 inches between them and it worked just fine for last 3 years with 3 different receivers, as matter of fact the HK being so much bigger I had to space the units even more. After all the problems I had I started to think about the fact that had the unit on floor for a week and after that it started to work again so I took everything  out of my rack and left the HK by it self in there, I haven't had any problems with it since but the video switching thing still doing it the dropping off after you change a setting.

I do like the sound and  if the unit was a little more reliable it would be a geat unit but for now I'm back looking for a new one and seriously considering emotiva and outlaw.

I have spend sometime looking over the differences between the outlaw 990 and the emotiva MMC -1, while both units are close there are some major differences

First one has DVI vs HDMI, no a big deal as far as I'm concerned

Second the oulaw has automatic set up, I can't figure out if the Emotiva does 

Third oultlaw has balanced outpouts, the emotiva has only the sub outpout balanced

Also the outlaw has only 2 sub output while emotiva has 3.

The Emotiva seems to have a better chip then the outlaw but while I have not heard any of the 2, the reviews are still really good for both chips.

The Emotiva has also something called the side AXIS, not sure what that is but it seems to be a speaker on each side of the room between the front  and the back speakers. I guess that would make the system a 9.1 set up. 

I have not decided which one I was going get but one thing is sure, the HK is going to be use a paper weight and replaced byeither a Emotiva or a Outlaw unit.

[Vladi]

falcon20x, I am in the process of testing HK 645 at the moment. So far so good. Your post is very helpful. I hope I will not face issues like you, but my usage is prety simple, and I don't have any need for video switching. Possible problems is the reason number one I am reluctant to buy gear that is not available in local store that I can take home and test. I got the HK at a local store and have 30 days to return it. It is about $250 more than online price though.

[Arky]

Vladi: have you looked here? 30 day return policy I believe.

[Fish]

I wanted to add that you will not be giving anything up in the dd/dts or stereo department with the Emo.In my opinion you'd be gaining in every way except the people that have very elaborate setups complain the Emo don't do everything their $300(sounds like crap) avr can do.The LMC1 has most all the features I need in my 2nd room,I am a sound/music first guy.It's easy to set up and operate,does music and movies great,has xover,speaker size,distance etc...like most I've tried.I only pointed out that some people with needs I don't have always find some issue I don't know or care about so you'd be aware.I suggest you call Emo,ask about the return shipping cost if you don't like it,and try it,then you'll know for sure.I bet you'll like the sound,good luck.

[Arky]

If it was me I would certainly risk return shipping to know for sure. Beats buyers remorse imo.

[Vladi]

Fish, will most likely order the Emo to try it, if I don;t I will always be bothered with the missed opportunity.

I need your help, I am interested in one feature, and since you already have the LMC-1, can you try it out for me please, I would really appreciate the favor. I am curious to find out if you can play the same digital source (downmix in the case of DD/DTS) thru the built in amp to power speakers in another room, as well [at the same time] output the same source thru the ZONE outs to external amplifier [channel 6 & 7 of LPA-1]? The goal is to create 3 zones playing the same source, and I am specifically interested if this is possible with digital source coming in from coax?

[falcon20x]

Vladi,

Getting the unit at s local store is a good call, but as I said Hk service is really good. I should know I got the first 2 units from them directly and they never discuss or argue the return of the units, even end up asking me if I wanted a refund.

Make sure you fullly test the unit and run it for few hours in a row or days, than if you don't have any problems and the corky video stuff don't matter to you, keep the unit.

For the price you will be very happy with it, the sound quality is really good with Klipsch speakers.

[Vladi]

I have, there is a 645 listed for $909. I can get it for $699 from JR, if I decide to order it online that is. The unit I am testing now was $999 at a local store.

[falcon20x]

I got mine for $ 720 from vanns.com with free shipping and a pair a sonance speaker for free as well, great guys buy from with good service.

[Fish]

V,I did not even know until recently that the lmc1 would send digital input sound to zone 2.All the other avrs and pres I've had would only accept analog input for zone 2 operation.I've heard the lmc1 will sync and let digital pass through.I've also read that you can output zone 2 from preouts and speaker outputs at the same time.I have not checked it (as I only use zone 2 on my patio).I do intend to try it but it may be a bit as the setup is rather difficult to access without standing on my head,lol.I will check the coax digital in on my zone 2 speaker(lmc)out,I'll try to let you know late tomorrow.

Yes,HK does have some quality control issues,but they still sound very nice for an avr.They also stand behind the product 100%,a friend dropped his 630 off(5 days of warranty left),repaired and sent back in 2 weeks.Emo also has a 5 year transferable warranty.

[Vladi]

Fish, digital to second zone is the MAIN reason I have narrowed down to HK and Emotiva, and it also happens that HK is great with Klipsch, from my own experience now. I can't stop listening to my music[as well as checking the forum], testing the 645 I have now.

I might be changing my opinion about 2 channel => multichannel DSP - Logic7 sounds very very good, especially with electronic music!

No rush on the digital to 3 zones, whenever you have time. Thanks in advance. If this actually works, I will be even more convinced to try Emotiva.

[Arky]

Guys, I don't really have a dog in the hunt but i'm half way considering ordering the top Emotiva just to try it. I just read this thread over at Outlaw which concerns me. Gonk, over at outlaw, is a straight shooter & doesn't bad talk Emotiva. Most of the time he is favorable towards them. For the record I own HK's old flagship 7200 & haven't had any issues. Very good sound.

[falcon20x]

Geez Arky thanks, now  I'm back to the beggining again. I decided to go for outlaw first then change my mind and swapped for a emotiva and now I just don't know any more :{

[Arky]

Yeah, I hear ya. I am very satisfied with my 990 just curious about Emotiva.