J.4knee Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21095732/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Yes it is, the holiday season will be very telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catharsis147 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Weird........So unless I am mistaken, you can record full HD programs on STANDARD DVD with this recorder?? Does that mean that HD content released by the studios could potentially be on standard DVD?? Interesting indeed. I still think that both formats are going to fail, but here is to wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn5 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 That's it. I give up. I'm going back to Laserdisc until this gets settled. [:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest srobak Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 And people wonder why I kept my laserdiscs and decks... This insanity needs to stop - don't the companies realize that the only people they are hurting is themselves by limiting sales to the people who burn to be on the bleeding edge, and those to whom money is not an object? Standardize this nonsense, open it to mass markets, make billions in profits, and call it a day. This is to the point of being gay now - I think it's about time the FCC steps in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Ham.Slap Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Just a quick addendum: this standard has been built in to both formats from the beginning. The only reason this is unique is because it's the first time this has been available to stand-alone units. People have been doing this with PC's for a while. Also, because of the codecs, you still need a HD DVD/Blu-Ray player. As far as the formats are concerned, this isn't going to be the Beta/VHS match-up that everyone has been talking about. Universal players are out there and dropping nicely in price. Like it or not, both formats are along for the long haul and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 So, should a person buy an upconverting dvd player or one of the HD/BlueRay models? Upconverting pros: able to play netflix rentals at home with the upconverting or my laptop when traveling without worrying about format / cost HD/BlueRay pros: picture quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest srobak Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 As far as the formats are concerned, this isn't going to be the Beta/VHS match-up that everyone has been talking about. Universal players are out there and dropping nicely in price. Like it or not, both formats are along for the long haul and I'm enjoying every minute of it. What do you mean it isn't going to be a match-up? It already is. You have studios X, Y and Z supporting one format while studios A, B and C support another. That is EXACTLY how the Beta/VHS thing went down, and in the end it cost consumers truckloads of money, as well as the studios while the market took it's sweet time converting all the beta owners to vhs and the ever so slow downward slope in deck pricing. To my knowledge - there is ONE commonly available dual format player "out there" - the LG BH100 - and it is priced way out of reach for your every-day consumer at $1200. With "cheap" HD decks being $300 and cheap BR decks being $500 - even choosing one format or the other is still out of reach for most consumers, and will be until at least Xmas 2008, and even then I don't think we will see decks of either sort that are below $200 unless things get standardized, and you can forget about universal decks being much under $500. It's just not worth it to shell out that kinda coin for the average movie watcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 There's Still No Next-Gen DVD Winner Yet By Ed Oswald, BetaNews October 1, 2007 Despite what fans of either format may be telling you, don't expect a winner in the next-generation DVD battle for at least a year if not more, say analysts. The battle itself seems to be doing the most damage, with a majority of customers opting to wait it out for a clear leader. Price of the players is also a major deterrent, research firm Forrester said in a report last week. Forrester believes that Blu-ray would eventually win out, however it warned at the same time that prices of the format's players need to drop. Blu-ray's content advantage is beginning to vanish, and HD DVD players are much closer to what consumers are willing to pay. HD DVD representatives told BetaNews at the Digital Life conference last week that a $199 standalone player will be available in time for the holidays. The firm said in the report that $200 seems to be the magic price point for many HDTV owners to consider a next-gen player. It also said those looking for Blu-ray exclusives could purchase many of the movies from European retailers, where they are being sold in HD DVD. The format has no regional encoding, meaning discs will play anywhere in the world without problems. Analyst J.P. Gownder, the author of the report, said that it was imperative that a $250 Blu-ray player be out by Christmas, and it must act aggressively to prevent more studios from supporting HD DVD. If Blu-ray fails to act, HD DVD very well could still win the format war in the end. Either way, it could be up to 18 months until a winner can be crowned, he concluded. Further data from Netflix seems to indicate similar momentum towards HD DVD. While views of the Blu-ray genre between July and Augst where on the average nearly twice as many as that of HD DVD, those who actually set a preference chose HD DVD by a margin of 2.4 to 1. The data also showed flat adoption for Blu-ray while rates rose for HD DVD, and a higher likelihood by almost 4.5 times that a HD DVD browser would set the format as his or her preferred one. "In what is increasingly shaping up as another 'VHS vs. Beta' all-around confusing situation for the consumer, neither next-generation video format appears to be gaining any real traction whatsoever," Mike Bailey said, of site analytics company Compete. Meanwhile: Gateway Unveils First 'Quad HD' Display By BetaNews Staff, BetaNews October 4, 2007 Gateway introduced its new top-of-the-line "Quad HD" display on Thursday, a 30-inch display that it says is capable of 1600p resolution, more than four times that of the traditional 720p display. The display upconverts standard definition to look like high definition, and can even convert 1080p -- the current highest resolution in which video is delivered-- to 1600p. Consumers could use a variety of inputs, including HDMI, DVI-D, VGA, component, S-Video, and composite interfaces. Other features include a built-in six-port USB 2.0 hub and anti-theft software, allowing the display to be set to work with one PC only. Additionally it will include a built-in speaker system, and up to 2560x1600 resolution. The display is available through the computer maker's own channels and select retailers for $1,699.99. And: Microsoft Plans New Xbox 360 Arcade Console By BetaNews Staff, BetaNews October 3, 2007 Product listings on Amazon.com and the Toys 'R' Us Web sites indicate that the Xbox 360 Core system is set to be replaced by a new console that focuses on its arcade game capabilities October 23. If earlier reports provided are correct, the console will come in a darker gray finish (being called a "standard finish") and include a 256MB memory card. An HDMI port will be added, and the device will include one wireless controller, although no headset. Central to the new SKU is the inclusion of five arcade games, two of which are expected to be UNO and Pac-Man. No other details were immediately available, and Microsoft had yet to publicly confirm the new model's existence as of press time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Yes it is, the holiday season will be very telling. As far as games, I think it has already been 'told'! Wii creams them all with an innovative fun format targeted at a pricepoint the real family market can afford. (Now That's a novel concept! Who woulda thunk it?) Halo3 rakes in >$300M on XBox360 in the first WEEK alone!!!! And it doesn't seem to be slowing down...well, unless you are looking for it on the PS3.... And the PS3...oh yeah...it can play Blu-Ray disks... This quote seems to sum up the PS3 quite well, although some may not like to hear it... "The real reason why there is a piss-poor selection of games is because the PS3 is not a game console first and foremost. The ability to play mediocre games seems like an afterthought to what I consider to be a modern-day Philips CD-i. The PS3 excels at quite a few things, but includes absolutely nothing that game designers can actually utilize properly or efficiently " And with my DVD player upconverting to 720p and 1080p (if I were to buy a set capable of displaying 1080p), and existing DVDs being available for a fraction of the price for HD disks that (at least in the classics segment that I value most) are simply upconverted DVDs, why should I rush out and buy an HD player until the price point falls? There just isn't a compelling reason. And there are just too few movies shot in HD worth having (Lord of the Rings aside). And the thought of buying an Adam Sandler movie in HD makes my stomach quesy... I think what it really means for the industry is that for this holiday season there is really no reason to spend any money on new video related gear. This will be a 'non-HD' anything holiday season for many. It just may be a great time to catch up on those giant growling slippers you wanted, but didn't get, a few years ago... And what would be nice is if the labels would begin releasing the complete audio catalogs of (the '50's, 60's, and 70's, etc.) artists (complete with the rare previously unreleased tidbits) on DVD for a righteous price. BTW, the new Ten Years After Live at Fillmore East is quite tasty if you like Ten Years After... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 And with my DVD player upconverting to 720p and 1080p (if I were to buy a set capable of displaying 1080p), and existing DVDs being available for a fraction of the price for HD disks that (at least in the classics segment that I value most) are simply upconverted DVDs, why should I rush out and buy an HD player until the price point falls? There just isn't a compelling reason. And there are just too few movies shot in HD worth having (Lord of the Rings aside). And the thought of buying an Adam Sandler movie in HD makes my stomach quesy... Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Ham.Slap Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 As far as the formats are concerned, this isn't going to be the Beta/VHS match-up that everyone has been talking about. Universal players are out there and dropping nicely in price. Like it or not, both formats are along for the long haul and I'm enjoying every minute of it. What do you mean it isn't going to be a match-up? It already is. You have studios X, Y and Z supporting one format while studios A, B and C support another. That is EXACTLY how the Beta/VHS thing went down, and in the end it cost consumers truckloads of money, as well as the studios while the market took it's sweet time converting all the beta owners to vhs and the ever so slow downward slope in deck pricing. To my knowledge - there is ONE commonly available dual format player "out there" - the LG BH100 - and it is priced way out of reach for your every-day consumer at $1200. With "cheap" HD decks being $300 and cheap BR decks being $500 - even choosing one format or the other is still out of reach for most consumers, and will be until at least Xmas 2008, and even then I don't think we will see decks of either sort that are below $200 unless things get standardized, and you can forget about universal decks being much under $500. It's just not worth it to shell out that kinda coin for the average movie watcher. Right now, yes. But the new LG BH200 is coming out as well as Samsung's dual format player. They are retailing at $999 for the start, and the price will fall about $200 pretty shortly thereafter (so $800 before 2008). This isn't speculation, I've confirmed the prices with both companies talking to their reps. But right now you have quite a few people supporting both formats which you really did not have in the 70's. Beyond that, I attach HD DVD players to approximately 1 out of 2 HDTV I sell. Is there a chance that either one or both formats will die? Sure. However is it worth it for me to spend $350 on a player and enjoy HD movie for at least two years in all their great picture and more importantly, sound quality equaling the master track. One final note, as far as pricing, we wouldn't be seeing $300 HD players right now if it wouldn't be for the format war. If I would venture a guess, it'd probably still be around $700 for the minimum. As technologies increase as they always do, prices will continue to fall, even on the hybrid decks as we will see a 33% price decrease from the time the hybrid decks were released less than a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 So we can have a simple player for $800?! Despite the fact that the Blu-Ray licensing agreement specifically forbids multi-format players and where they are not about to let such a player undercut their goal of dominance....I wouldn't hold your breath for a cheap multi-format player! What you are confusing is the fact that several manufacturers (esp. NEC) have developed a method of manufacturing a single diode assembly that can read both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray with a single laser, resulting in one diode assembly rather than two separate diode assemblies, thus reducing inventory and supply chain distribution costs and benefiting from economies of scale. But still this has not resulted in a substantial reduction in consumer prices. Simply reducing mfg costs does not necessarily translate into a more economical player if the licensing requirements of the format specifically restrict the marketing of a product intentionally trying to violate the restriction! Does it make sense to the consumer? Sure (IF the price were $250!!!), but it makes not sense to the Blu-Ray folks, NO! And THAT is your market reality. And at $800 you can just about buy both the XBox360 and the PS3 and actually play games (at least on the XBox anyway) So we are back to a simple player for $800. Just to watch movies at 1080p, assuming one's TV even supports this...Hold me back.... None of this addresses the fact that most don't see a compelling reason to spend $800 just for a player when you can upconvert standard DVDs to 1080i, 720p, and 1080p with existing players going for $75 and without paying 3-4 times the price for media. The fact is that HD-DVD players are quickly heading towards $200. And Toshiba is now installing HD-DVD in their laptops, to be followed by several other manufacturers. The fact is that HD-DVD is heading toward becoming a commodity MUCH faster than Blu-Ray, which has yet to even approach a price point that the average family will buy. Both MS and Sony are having trouble convincing folks to spend $350 for a game console that also plays movies. Offering less functionality for a greater price is not likely to stimulate sales in any significant manner. But it may make the marginal market segment occupied by hype and early adopters salivate. Again, there is no compelling reason to spend $300, let alone $800 for just a player... But if you have the money and the desire, by all means. Just don't be surprised why the rest of the world will not rush to follow. I can just hear it now..."Gee, mommy, I need a dual format HD player! It ONLY costs $800 dollars...And they even have a few more movies worth watching...including the new Adam Sandler and Ocean's XX movie..." "Oh, Johnny.....You mean that they only cost $800!? Maybe we should get two of them... And we can get both movies..." Not.... Expecting this to capture market share is akin to expecting the BMW M3, Corvette and Porsche (or for that matter, a $60K-$90K dual fuel or hybrid vehicles) to supplant Hondas, Toyotas, vans and pickups. At a price point where few are willing to even buy a complete 'multi-function' platform, the mass market is simply not going to embrace this for just a movie playback device. (And this is completely ignoring the very real issue of the price of the additional purchase of a 1080p TV!!!) What will drive the market will not be an expensive solution catering to hype, fanboys and early adopters. It will be a low cost commodity platform that offers significant improvement over the existing alternatives. And that ain't going to happen in the next year or two, regardless of how much folks, for whatever reason, may wish it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Hey mas, never mind this HD- Blu Ray crap, tell me about TEN YEARS AFTER : LIVE AT WINTERLAND ? A DVD, and where did you get it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Hey mas, never mind this HD- Blu Ray crap, tell me about TEN YEARS AFTER : LIVE AT WINTERLAND ? A DVD, and where did you get it ? I mispoke in identifying it as their performing at Winterland (as I was also listening to the Jefferson Airplane Last Flight - a recording of their last concert at Winterland in its entirety from which 7 songs were pulled for their 1972 Thirty Seconds Over Winterland album. Personally I like it for the Hot Tuna aspects of the show, and as for much of the rest you can see why Jorma and Jack were bailing out... (and you can have Freiberg) Its the 2 CD - Ten Years After Live at the Fillmore East, and its Ten Years After in rare form live, and that is always a treat. My only gripe is that I wish they had played more from Cricklewood Green, but hey, that is a very small complaint! Here is the Amazon.com link: http://www.amazon.com/Live-Fillmore-East-Years-After/dp/B00005K1ZD/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7786371-5048013?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191578103&sr=8-1 The editorial and customer reviews state the case pretty well and all give it high marks for both playing and recording. Here is the link to DeepDiscount.com where you can save a few bucks (note: their price includes shipping) http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=5825983 If you like Ten Years After, this is highly recommended! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest srobak Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 >Right now, yes. But the new LG BH200 is coming out as well as Samsung's dual format player. Samsung was supposed to release that deck in fall of 06... here it is a year later. I'm not holding my breath. Even with the addition of the BH200 - that makes TWO decks... sorry, still not gonna cut it, nevermind the fact they are both from the same mfg. >This isn't speculation, I've confirmed the prices with both companies talking to their reps. Right - because reps never make false promises or hopes in order to drum up hype, media hype, or to help drive sales of other products within the manufacturer's line. I work in manufacturing - I know the game. I don't consider "holiday sale pricing" to represent actual pricing - ie - after the holidays. MSRP on the deck right now is 1200, and there is currently a 200 mfg rebate. With how close we are to the holidays already (read: xmas decorations are already on the shelves, and toy departments have already been laid out for the xmas push) - I can't imagine we will see another significant price drop before xmas. If we do - it will be in lieu of the rebate, and the final price will be at least 900. Historically - these are the trends with fresh electronics for the holidays. > I attach HD DVD players to approximately 1 out of 2 HDTV I sell. If we are talking displays that cost over 1800, then I buy that. For displays topping out around 1400 - I don't. The people who spend closer to a grand on a display simply wont drop the coin on an HD deck right now, of either format. > [...] is it worth it for me to spend $350 on a player and enjoy HD movie for at least two years in all their great picture and more importantly, sound quality equaling the master track. That depends on the thickness of your wallet, and how much you spent on your display and surround system. The mere fact that you are even in a Klipsch forum puts you in the minority right off the bat as a genuine audiophile. Considering your average "hdtv consumer" spends barely over a grand on a display, and at most another grand on an ENTIRE surround system (thanks to sony and onkyo "theatre in a box type systems) - that is where the majority of the sales for anything hd/br would come from. As the pricepoint is too high - it just isn't going to happen. >One final note, as far as pricing, we wouldn't be seeing $300 HD players right now if it wouldn't be for the format war. I don't buy that for a second. Look at how quickly prices dropped on DVD decks... and it was a completely fresh & new technology vs. VHS in the consumer's eyes. Your average consumer doesn't see HD/BR as "new technology" - they see it as "improved upon existing" technology - which is also why they spend the money on the display (LCD is "new" technology vs. tubes), and not on a "fancier dvd player". You really gotta look at the whole market through the consumer's eyes, and not so much the manufacturer's or their reps. HD displays didn't become truly mainstream until last holiday season when the prices finally fell from above the 2 grand mark for a mediocre display, and then settled in to pretty much static pricing with the push prior to the superbowl and then the shift in the market from plasma to LCD. Sales for HD/BR decks this holiday season are not going to take a tremendous spike - the technology is still too new and the prices are still too high. Yes, there will be an increase - but don't expect anything off the scale like there is for new gaming systems every holiday season. Between the division in the studios in their format support and the extremely limited number of titles currently available on either format - there just isn't enough reason or demand for your average consumer to go there. At earliest - I'd say we will see the huge push for next holiday season, and it will still be fairly pricey - unless all the manufacturers do something completely unprecedented in the next month in their pricing and product lines. History says that won't happen though. $200 is the magic mark, I guarantee it. And if BR doesn't do some serious price cutting prior to HD getting there - then that will decide the winner right there, mark my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 mas, OK Thanks, I was fired up to buy the DVD...............Alvin has always been a favorite of mine.......Not alot of Alvin on DVD...shucks!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Ham.Slap Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I hate getting into Internet arguments, but this one is just so full of faux information it hurts.... Right - because reps never make false promises or hopes in order to drum up hype, media hype, or to help drive sales of other products within the manufacturer's line. I work in manufacturing - I know the game. I don't consider "holiday sale pricing" to represent actual pricing - ie - after the holidays. MSRP on the deck right now is 1200, and there is currently a 200 mfg rebate. With how close we are to the holidays already (read: xmas decorations are already on the shelves, and toy departments have already been laid out for the xmas push) - I can't imagine we will see another significant price drop before xmas. If we do - it will be in lieu of the rebate, and the final price will be at least 900. Historically - these are the trends with fresh electronics for the holidays. Actually if you look its current street price is no higher than $999. No mail-in rebates. It was on sale for $799 a few weeks ago. Please don't drop inappropriate information. Plus, this isn't just coming from reps, it has come down the pipes of the retailer I work for themselves. So yes, look for a $799 combo player in the next few months, unless you have some concrete evidence to the latter. Furthermore, there are already pictures of the Samsung player, it has been demoed and full specifications announced. They aren't going to pull the plug on this one. That depends on the thickness of your wallet, and how much you spent on your display and surround system. The mere fact that you are even in a Klipsch forum puts you in the minority right off the bat as a genuine audiophile. Considering your average "hdtv consumer" spends barely over a grand on a display, and at most another grand on an ENTIRE surround system (thanks to sony and onkyo "theatre in a box type systems) - that is where the majority of the sales for anything hd/br would come from. As the pricepoint is too high - it just isn't going to happen. That is exactly what I myself do not understand. There are so many people here who have such a negative feeling towards the high def formats on a high-end audio forum. My wallet is not fat by any means, and I have sacrificed some things as a college student to get the system that I currently own. But would I go backwards on any of it? No. Because I hear the difference between sources and equally see the difference between having a machine that "guesses" what should go in 75% of the pixels of 1080p vs a player that reads all 1080 lines of information straight off the disc and posts it on the display with audio quality that really makes our multi-thousand dollar investments sing beyond what was previously offered. $230 shipped for the HD-A2 from Amazon with 5 free HD DVDs priced too high? Surely you jest. As one final notation, my customers generally average on a display that costs at least $1700, and I work in a Best Buy, not a Tweeter or a boutique. Sure you have those that go to Wal-Mart, and certainly the HD market really isn't for them, but anyone who can appreciate a Panasonic or Pioneer plasma will certainly see ALL the benefits. I don't buy that for a second. Look at how quickly prices dropped on DVD decks... and it was a completely fresh & new technology vs. VHS in the consumer's eyes. Your average consumer doesn't see HD/BR as "new technology" - they see it as "improved upon existing" technology - which is also why they spend the money on the display (LCD is "new" technology vs. tubes), and not on a "fancier dvd player". You really gotta look at the whole market through the consumer's eyes, and not so much the manufacturer's or their reps. HD displays didn't become truly mainstream until last holiday season when the prices finally fell from above the 2 grand mark for a mediocre display, and then settled in to pretty much static pricing with the push prior to the superbowl and then the shift in the market from plasma to LCD. That is completely wrong as well. The cost of DVD players didn't drop nearly as fast as the HD players are right now. On their launch in March of 1997 the average cost of all DVD player models was $735 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. After over a year and a half (December of 2008) of being on the market, the average retail price was about $470 representing an approximately 36% price drop. Here we are a little before that mark with the HD DVD format has fallen from $499 to $230 which represents a price drop of approximately 53%. One seems to be falling faster than the other, no? And I do look at it from the eyes of a consumer, as I myself am a consumer of the HD formats. As of right now, I own the Toshiba HD-A20 and the Playstation 3 so I adopt into both formats. I see the benefits of this HD war whilst others just look at the negatives. Sure it hasn't gone off without a hitch, but that doesn't mean it's some evil process which should be shunned from the world. Try not to be so negative towards it without actually sitting down and taking advantage of a 30 day return period from CC or BB. There is only the slimmest of chances you would go back to DVD if you actually tried it with an open mind. 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falcon20x Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 While I do see your point and do agree, but I think you are completely missing the marketing factor. Let me explain myself. It is all a matter of numbers here, these companies are in the business of making money. If I sold players to 10% of the population 10 years ago and that number is the same today, is my revenue still the same ? No, since we were 250 million people back then and now are 400 million, therefore I actually almost double my revenu. My stocks needs to keep going up or people are going to be unhappy with me. So how can make even more money? Well there are few things you can do: Since I have a wider market I can afford to drop the price down to sell more units. Now that the customer has bought the unit how do I make even more money? That one is easy, jack up the price of disc. VHS cost $ 6.00 DVD cost $20.00 HD-DVD/ blue ray cost $30.00 Next the big word that no one knows anymore QUALITY ! Just make the product crappier so it won't last as long. Obviously, this is going to create a problem with customer so how do I deal with that. Technology is the answer. Create a market of what people want, I mean what the TV is going to tell uneducated customer what they need. 480 i, 480p, 720 , 1080o i now a 1080p and next 2160 i and so on or Hdmi 1.0 next 1.3 and then 30000 may be. And if they are not going to want it, take the old stuff away from them and they won't have the choice. These concepts applies to pretty much everything in your daily life. Politics, car, audio etc. Why do you think Honda changes model every 4 years, or people are using 30 years old tube amps amd even going back to heritage speakers. Because the old stuff is not bad at all but it is never enough money. I'm not saying that things have not improved but they are just so many ways to make the world turn, after awhile you are going to run out of ideas. Also remember who is behind this, Microsoft and Sony. Microsoft created the concept of hooking up the customers with a cheap product then hitting them with highly price software, they did again with vista. The product does not have to be good, as long as people are hooked to it you can do what you want. Sony does the same with there products. Why do you think you have a 30 days return period? Try it and see if you like it, once you are hooked it is over. We are in a Global economy with few players making the rules, if you have not figure that one out yet you are going to be in a rude wake up. The world does not start at the east cost and stop at the west cost anymore, that is for the big players. I think that one is funny though, 90% of what I buy on the market is from foreign countries but have you tried to transfer your money from one country to another and see what happen? Well that is a different subject anyway. Regardless HD-DVD, blue ray and all the new stuff are here to stay, so you might as well go with the flow and enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I'm trying to not start a new post, and therefore repeating the question in this forum... What are the opinions on whether one should purchase the BlueRay or simply get an Oppo upconverting at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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