mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I get the feeling he doesnt have any measuring tools and is surely not a pro with the soldering iron. Nothing wrong with that ... I would SPRAY the controls, especially the volume pot. Rotate it while spraying, letting the spray get in. I bet your control is not bad, although it could be. I have not had to replace any so far although I have done so to improve quality. Most get dirty and some cleaning can get it back to snuff. IS the static linear sounding like a woosh or is it more crackling? Did you remove all the tubes and spray in the sockets? As for the 7189 and 6BQ5, mdeneen is right. You will need to get probably another pair of 7189 to put back in shape...or maybe a quad to know they are all reasonably the same. The 6BQ5 and EL-84 are exactly the same tube - many tubes have the numerical and letter approach ie EZ-81/6CA4 , 12AX7/ECC83 etc. The 7189 and the 6BQ5 do not have the same operating points. Any progress? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 SPRAY THAT SWITCH AS WELL! Spray and work all the switches and controls..they all need a cleaning is my bet. Also, DONT USE that scratch filter or any of the other filter mess on there. Try to get all that stuff (including the bass and treble) set either out of circuit (or OFF as it may be) or FLAT to see where your amp really stands. Remember, the more crap the signal flows through, the more corrupt the sound. Think of each contact and part as a potential spot for the sound to be degraded. This is why many opt for the SIMPLE approach with as little for the signal to pass through as possible. I admit, the signal is taking quite a trip through these vintage pieces but every little bit counts. I noticed a very positive change in transparency and openess when I removed the balance and the tone controls from the circuit as well as any of the superfluous switches that only serve to degrade the sound. Simple is better. Better sound and less to go wrong. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-09-2002 at 03:54 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 Just hooked my KSW-15 sub to it and wow she kicks pretty good now. Where is the best place to get 4 brand new output tubes and which ones do you guy's recomend ?? I must say that the sound does seem so much more life like. I just wish it wasn't damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 Mobile homeless. I ran out of contact cleaner will have to stop and get more then I will give it the once over on all the switches and controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 mdeneen Ya know I do remember when the drug store had the tester I was like 10 yrs old LOL !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Wait till you have the thing on for over an hour or so....after you get it situated, LEAVE IT ALONE and let it settle in. Almost all electronic sound better once they are warmed up and on for over an hour or so. Some warm up faster than others but tube gear really does improve as it warms up. Also, dont turn you CD player off EVER. Just leave the beast on ALL the time as it takes quite a while for the players to sound their best again. I literally never turn my Rega off...or any other solid state device without a motor. As for tube gear, it is best to leave it on more than to turn it off and on. Think of when a light bulb blows? When you turn it on.... Same with engine wear... Most things settle in and have less wear when left on as they stablize. OF course, tubes will wear out if you leave the beast on all the time vs never. So try to find a balance. Try not to turn it off and on many times in one day. I personally leave my Moondogs on for up to a week or two at a time. The EICOs all day and off late in eve. I have left my EICO on for up to 6 months with no problem but many will gasp at this. Gear with Black Gate PS caps sometimes takes up to a WEEK to sound its best! As for tubes, the NOS (new old stock) are the best sounding...but for some NEW tubes without any problems, try going to neds ( http://shop.store.yahoo.com/triodeel/6bel71elsv.html ) and picking up some JJ/Tesla EL-84. These are pretty good for new tubes. Some like the Ei as well. I am not a fan of the Sovtek EL-84, however. Of the new EL-84, the JJ are probably the safest best sound-wise. You can get a matched quad for $40. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 What about the other tubes anything to gain by replacing any others? The rectifier is the Original Scott the others I haven't looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 How expensive is it going to be to retube the whole thing and where can I get all of them. Just want to research it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 mdeneen and I agree on most things but disagree on others. As for jumping out and getting all NEW tubes, I would hesitate a bit and remember that the older tubes, if still good, sound much better (depending on type and brand) than the new counterparts. So if the tubes measure well and still have life left, they will more than likely sound BETTER than anything brand new. As for the rectifier, what is it? Mullard makes the best rectifiers and they last a LONG time. I would see if I could find another. TEll what is in that beast again. The EICO has two Mullard EZ-81 stock...btw, tubes labeled EICO or SCOTT etc are usually rebranded Mullards or other European makes. Sometimes they are AMerican as well. IT all depends. As for the leaving amps on...the tubes wear out FAR MORE QUICKLY if turned on and off more than once a day. IF you are doing some listening all weekend, say, I would leave the amp on the entire 48 hours. To be honest, it is LESS wear to do this to to turn them off and on 6 or 7 times during the period. On top of that, it sounds better to boot. Mdeneen is very right about the Standby switch as well. I have one on my Cary SLP-70 preamp and I NEVER turn that preamp off, just using the standby switch. My 5692 and 5691 haev lasted close to 9 years!!! As for the EICO HF-81, the one I left on for 6 months is still going fine with those same tubes...all measuring very safe with plenty of life left. No, I would not normally do this for several reasons....but it can be done. As I said before in here, if you have SS gear, leave it on all the time...it last longer and sounds better. My B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks were on for 10 years without a single hiccup. We had an NAD 3150 integrated at the college radio station that was on for YEARS AND YEARS and never missed a beat. Others that were purchased at the same time and used off and on had problems. kh PS- NOS! What the hell is your name???? heh... GIve me a list of the tubes it is supposed to have and I'll let you know. PPS - Mdeneen, As for the Black Gate WKZ PS cap, there are many theories here... Most say that this cap takes THIS long to fully charge up to full potential and equalize. I know many that report this with the BIG MONSTER Black Gates in the PS. I have found the same to be true. I am talking about the daddy WKZ High Voltage variety that come in over $140 for one 100uF 500v cap! This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-09-2002 at 06:39 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 Mobile my name is Craig LOL !!!!! I will get you all the tube #s tomorrow I'm to busy listening to it with my Scott TT. It sound great I don't think it has any bad or flat tubes. The rectifier say's scott on it that's all I can tell ya right now. Is there some trick to getting the 4 front tubes out that have the metal covers on them. I didn't try very hard but they don't seem to pull right out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 mdeneen....if that was so, we WOULD be in trouble. but these are the super high voltage POWER SUPPLY filter caps and you would really only need ONE or TWO at the most here. For instance, the EICO has two 34uF high voltage caps for the power supply. The Moondogs have ONE per monoblock(see below). This is actually the very culprit that costs so much... The Black Gate WKZ High voltage Polarized caps are the best electrolytic caps for high voltage in your power supply.... They are only really used in quality tube amps. Audio Note uses them. Some DIY guys put them in as well. Craig, those metal covers are easy to get off. Just gently rock them and they come right out of the lip clips. Once off, the tube pull right out just like the others. I think this is the way the Scott is done; most are like this. You need to get a manual for the amp from one of the sources online. There are plenty that can get you a reprint for under $20. kh ps - See how amazingly clean the wiring job is for Jazman's new Moondog monoblocks? That is his very unit...before shipping, of course. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-10-2002 at 04:44 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 NOS440 (craig), Follow mobile's link to Triode. I'm very new to tubing but I was able to purchase a matched Quad of new EL84/6BQ5 EI Yugoslavia tubes for $29.80 for my HF81 there. That should not break the bank. I also read reference material, and cross reference like a mad man, so I've felt comfortable slogging through eBay listing to get my hands on tubes like the 2 new Mullard rectifier tubes also for my HF81. One I got for $26. The other I had to fight off the hordes for at $42 but it averages to $33 each which is pretty good when you consider Tube World did not have a matched pair of Mullard EZ81/6CA4 tubes I could purchase at any price and these are prized highly by most. The caps over the tubes, if like my unit, are held on by the pressure inside the cover pressing against the tube, but pulls off easily. I'm learning as I go, enjoying every new bit of knowledge. I have gone through hell with UPS in the past. In my case they destroyed the Klipsch box a pair of KSF5's were shipping in. After leaving the seller, the surrounds mysteriously disappeared from tracking for a few days, then reappeared after many calls, many days of missing in action later, at my front door, in some completely bogus box. They had been repackaged by UPS at one of their depots after going into a damaged holding pen, and they were not about to confess to anything until I forced a fact finding of the issue by having the seller sign over the power to settle the claim to me. I finally was awarded compensation after much hassle. I never ship anything via UPS since that event, and discourage all others from using them. Good luck. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 heh.... yeah well. Actually, if you are doing TUBE RECTIFICATION you dont want anywhere NEAR that high without changing the power supply type. Solid state rectification is no problem here but with tube and the typical vintage EL-84 amps, if you get too much over 47uF per channel, it starts to slow the sound down and become rather ponderous. In fact, a lot of manufacturers are going to multiple smaller caps instead if the monsters in order to build a faster power supply. What design are you using with your EL-34 amp? So for you loon balls with your EICOs and Scotts with tube rectification, dont go swapping those ps caps with MONSTERS as you will find the sound WORSE instead of better. Sometimes, bigger is not always better. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-11-2002 at 10:23 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 11, 2002 Author Share Posted January 11, 2002 Well the seller got back with me and is going to see what UPS has to offer. It was insured . He asked me what I would think was fair. I told him that now that the front bezel is so damaged I would think that 125.00 refund from UPS and I keep the Amp. He replied with..if they won't do that he would refund me my money except shipping and pay for half the shipping back. I told him that wasn't fair I get stuck paying 19.00 to ship it to me and another 9.50 to ship it back. So I'm out 28.50 and get nothing at all but a waste of my time. Am I being ridicules ?? I decided not to mess with taking the other tubes out and see what they are until I see what is going to happen with it. I also found another nice peice its a AM/FM tuner AMP from HH Scott model 399. Do you experts know anything about this unit. It looks to be in awesome condition. Model 399 Oh and Mobile I know what your going to say "simple is better". But look at it isn't it just to cool This message has been edited by NOS440 on 01-11-2002 at 10:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 11, 2002 Author Share Posted January 11, 2002 Here's the tubes and other info it should come with. AM/FM-Mono "Simulcast Stereo" Tuner combined with (Stereo) amp; 18-wpc 1960-1962 $399 The 399 was Scott's first receiver to incorporate a complete amplifier. Once again, the type number was curiously the same as the price, just like the original Type 99! Combines a 7189-based (299- complete stereo amp and a 330-D AM/FM-mono tuner, on one tall "G" chassis, Uses two (AM & FM); "Magic-eye" 6BR5/EM80 signal-strength indicator tubes. 23 tubes: 11-tube, Amplifier section: (4) 12AX7 - preamps (2) 6U8/6GH8 (floating paraphase inverter w/AC balance pots) (4) 7189 outputs (1) 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier 6-tube, FM Tuner (311-design) section: (1) 6BS8/6BQ7 (1) 6U8 (3) 6AU6 (1) 6BR5/EM80 FM tuning eye 6-tube, AM Tuner section: (1) 6BA6 (1) 6BE6 (2) 6HS6 (1) 6BR5/EM80 AM tuning eye (1) 12AU7 37 lbs. Isn't it fitting that the price new and the model number are the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 How bad is that amp damaged? Can you get a picture? I assume it looks horrible. If the seller is offering that much and the amp was NOT damaged by him, then that is not too bad, considering. He is having to eat the UPS mistake too. At least he seems to be trying to help here. I would really take the few seconds to remove those input/driver/preamp tubes and see what you have. Why not? As for that other Scott....man.... I just dont think going that route is a safe bet, especially if you are totally at square one with soldering and tube knowledge. I can only imagine this piece will invaribly need some sort of work. Yeah, it looks funky..but lordy, I wouldnt go near it personally. IF you do, dont blame me! heh... Talk about getting in over your head! That beast has more gadgets and gimcracks then a modern receiver! And who really knows what condition it is in... I see trouble and head scratching here. How is the Scott really sounding? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 11, 2002 Author Share Posted January 11, 2002 Mobile I hear what your saying. But all those gadgets is what makes it so cool. If the seller is honest everything works perfect. But again I will have to see what it goes for. If it only ends uo 150.00 I'm going to grab it. I'm not scared of a challenge. As far as the 222c it is playing awesome no problems at all. Right now I have it hooked to my satilite reciever listening to the classic rock music channel. It sounds better than my $600 dollar sony AV receiver by far. I have a picture if you want me to email it to you. I can't for the dammed of me get a clear picture down sized to the 20k limit that this sight ask for that looks worth a **** . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Email the shot if you like. Check that seller's FEEDBACK. Not too great, even given the amount. Also, read the description carefully. This unit is from an estate sale. Does he really mention how much he has tested it? I personally think the EICO would sound many times better and looks even MORE vintage. Still, I see what you like about the Scott. Seems you are Scott crazy now. I would HOPE to hell it sounded better than your Sony AV! PRobably an order of magnitude better! As for the Sat. Dish station, have you tried hooking up your CDP? The sonics of those stations are pretty lame... Dont believe the hype on it. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 11, 2002 Author Share Posted January 11, 2002 why do you say the sellers feedback isn't good ? looks real good to me. I have emailed him asking him how he tested it. waiting to hear. I have listened to the amp with my DVD player , My scott turn table and now the Satilite dish. Have you ever heard the stereo music channels on Dish Network ?? They sound awesome to me. Dish Networks satilite Quality is head over heals better than Direct TV's. oh and you have mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Poor ole Craig's Scott 222 with left side dent/crease. Not as bad as I thought...but a shame, nonetheless. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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