Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 By the way, all "black face" Scott units were originally sold as KITS. I would stay away from any of these and stick with the factory assebled stuff--there doesn't seem to be much price difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 Allan Songer You say there a great phono amps. What about using them for CDs and other souces are they still good ?? Do they incorparate a phone stage in the AMP ? I would guess yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 One more thing shouldn't that 222c have a cover for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Like all the "good old" stuff, these are PACKED with features--2 or 3 line level inputs-a couple of phono inputs, tone controls, a mono switch ,etc. The are FULLY LOADED by modern standards! And don't underestimate the need for that mono switch! It really irks me that most modern preamps don't include one! THe noise level when listening to a mono record with out one is horrible! Do modern preamp designers not care that we have HUNDREDS of mono records? (at least some of us do!). And yes, this little amp will kick *** with CDs and FM as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 The 222 came with a cheap-o sheet metal box with fake woodgrain. Some were tossed I'm sure when these were new so as to fit into "console" systems. The box is ugly and just makes the amp run hot--you'd probably romove it even if it came with one. You can buy or build a nice wooden box with good venting if you really need one, but why not just look at those pretty tubes glow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 I don't really care for using it. It would I think make it worth more if I had it is all. So you think 225.00 is a good deal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 The 222 only has 2 line level and one phono input--the 299 has 2 phono and 3 line. But that's probably enough, right? Will you really run more than a phono, CD and FM (or tape)? Also, you can run a powered subwoofer from the "center channel" jack. I have a friend who does this and it really works GREAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 You really can't go wrong at $225--I'm sure you could flip it for no loss on ebay if you don't end up liking it (but I'm sure you will!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Based on my memory of the Scott, I think the EICO is a better amp on the whole. I dont know, it just has this certain magic about it that I have not heard in any of the other vintage amps whether they be Scott, Fisher, HK, etc. It is hard to explain, but once you hear it, the difference is there. The Scott sounded thick by comparison and less air around instruments. That is good knowledge about the black face being kits. On the other hand, many of the EICOs were kits as well... In my view, I want less features as the simpler the better for sound. The more crap you can eliminate from the circuit, the better. Of course, a phono stage is GREAT..as well as the mono switch. Still, there is so much more junk for the signal to run through (and for things to go wrong). Most of my gear has NO extraneous parts... no balance even. My passive unit just has a volume control. My Cary only has the silver source switch and the TKD volume attenuator with a single holco resistor for each volume point. The level of transparency at this level is something to hear. Still, the magic of this vintage gear is amazing. I will never sell my EICO and rate it over almost all the other gear at that time (and a good portion of modern stuff as well). If you decide to go with the SCOTT, I am sure will be happy if the unit is in good condition. Still, the EICO is the magic one for me. Even at the "buy it now" price, the Scott is not bad, though. Still, the 7189 tube is harder to find then the 6BQ5. And I cant remember if the Scott has an all triode front end like the EICO. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-03-2002 at 02:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 Well I think I'm going to grab that 222c and give it a whirl. Like Allan said I could alway's resell it if it doesn't turn me on. I just have to try the tube route and see what you guy's are all talking about. My dad has been a Ham Operator and restorer for years and he agrees with you all that tubes are way better for sound. I will have to see for myself. Thanks for your help guy's. Oh and Mobile I will still be looking for a EICO like yours so if you see one drop me a line . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 mdeneen Thanks for your words of caution. Luckily I have access to all the equipment you mentioned even oscilloscope my dad restores ham equipment and has for years he even has a ton of audio tubes that I need to look thru and see what treasures he may have. Of coarse I'll need to know what I'm looking for first LOL !! This message has been edited by NOS440 on 01-03-2002 at 03:35 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobman Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 mdeneen I couldn't agree more about the "buyer beware" aspect of this tube business. From Ebay, I bought my first tube piece, a Fisher 500C, that was suppossed to be in perfect operating condition, recently tested, yada, yada... I looked pretty good, but had 3 weak tubes, 1 socket was rusted, it needed alignment and a few other things. I was not to worried about it being "stock", so I did the upgrading kit. I had the work done by Vacume Tube Valley, (Not far from either of us) and although they did an excellent job, it still tripled the cost of the unit. I am happy with it now, but I will certainly be more careful in the future. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 While all the above is good advice, I sure dont want it to scare off potential newbies. Christ, after reading that list, I WAS SCARED! I have bought three tube amps off ebay and have been very lucky with all three. They did need some work down the road such as PS caps, a few coupling caps, and a few resistors, but nothing that was horrifying. In fact, I could have gotten by with nothing but PS caps. As for the EICO stuff, the transformers are very good...well built and usually nothing to worry about. As for VTV, they REALLY REALLY overcharge! Dont go there unless you want to drop $$$$$$$. kh For those wondering where VTV is...it's Vacuum Tube Valley... Go to the site for everything you want to know: http://www.vacuumtube.com/Products.htm This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-03-2002 at 06:51 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 mobile homeless Where is VTV ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 3, 2002 Author Share Posted January 3, 2002 Oh and wish me luck on the Scott 222c I bought it for $225 the guy asures me it works perfect. Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 You might want to wander through here for a while! http://www.hhscott.com/integrated_amps_stereo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 mdeneen, all in all, I agree with your recs and warnings. I just dont want all to think that unless they have super skill and a bevy of repair equipment, that vintage valve amps are a very risky proposition. For those of you that are getting a first tube amp with limited experience, it is a great way to learn your way around a schematic and circuit. To be honest, it's actually kind of fun to change the parts in these pieces and if you do the work yourself, you can literally save $$ since, as mdeneen said, most of the time the parts are very little expense as the labor is where most of the $$$ goes. And generally speaking, with something like an EICO HF-81, it has not been abused in an enclosed cabinet. I have seen some with the original tubes with plenty of life left in the beasts. What most people dont understand is that you can get top notch sound that competes with the big name amps from equipment made 40 years ago! I guess mdeneen's words of caution do hold true, however. If you can find a friend with some electrical/amp experience to walk you through some of the beginning stages, then it is really invaluable. Also, everyone does need to remember this. The voltages in tube amplifiers can be lethal if you dont know what your are doing. One must be very careful when working/and testing units with the power on. There are plenty of books out for the beginning DIY novice; I advise everyone interested in vintage gear to buy a few. All this being said, I surely am no DIY king! I didnt know the first thing about an amp schematic when I got my first EICO and I am still alive and breathing...if without hair on half my body... kh PS - Lordy, mdeneen!!! I just now saw your profile for the first time! Heh...beautiful. Philosopher? That has to be a first. As a double major in Philosophy and English, I must tip my cap in your direction (if I had a cap). I always thought that if delving into vintage tube hifi, one must first dive into the depths of Nietzsche...and if lucky, never emerge... This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-03-2002 at 09:53 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 One thing, if you do invest in a load of tube amps, it is smart to find a reliable tube tester. Of these, it is best to get a model that tests not only whether the tube is "good" or "bad" but also "mutual conductance." This actually tests the tube's measurements and enables you to match tubes as well as get an accurate (depending on tester calibration etc) reading on the tube. Of course, these testers are a bit more expensive and those great deals on ebay are about gone. Still, you can find a good tester if you keep your eye out. I happen to have a Hickok 600 derivative called the 800K Qualikit. Here is a pic of it below. The problem with these old testers is they are not always accurate and many use tubes themselves. Still, it is invaluable to have one if you plan on getting a stock of tubes and have no idea of the condition. Good brands are Hickok, B&K, TV-7, TV-2 EICO, ... The Hickok 600 is perhaps the best low cost full featured tester that tests the older tubes as well. The TV-7 is also a GREAT tester and jump if you find one. If you have 2A3 and 300B, you will need a tester that tests the older 4-pin tubes. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 boy you just have all the toys don't ya LOL !!!! How are you implanting them pictures of just the object ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Yeah, but that tube tester post was a bit weak as it didnt really go into any detail... And I really dont think you need a tester, actually. It's a luxury to be sure. It is helpful if you buy a lot of NOS tubes and want to know what you have as well as the condition of your current tube selection. As for putting the shots in, it is actually not as simple as it looks but since I do it all the time, it does not take me too long to whip one up. You have to cut the item out via Photoshop or PaintShop Pro and then paste it on one of the two backgrounds used by this forum (#F7F7F7 or #E1DFDF). If you notice, the background is either a darker or lighter gray. You have to ascertain which will be used in your post and paste the item on that color background. Or if you have succinct edges, you can use the "magic wand" and replace the color around the item. Sounds like an insane amount of work for one post? Actually, it's not too bad...usually I can do it in two or three minutes. While you could do a .gif file which allows for a transparent background, these are usually too big in file size and best for drawings or small items. A .jpg file can compress better but is not capable of being transparent. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-04-2002 at 12:55 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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