banana vs bare vs spade

[stereomaniac]

I have been using bare wire to my three way binding posts, but I have heard that I can reduce the rate of oxidation if I use connectors(gold plated). ANy thoughts?

I have been thinking about crimp-on spades. I have always been a crimp guy. ANy thoughts on the twist-on/compression fit connectors? I always thought the contact might be inferior and they might come loose, but I don't know.

[jheis]

I use crimp-on spades with 12 gauge on all my Heritage speakers. Works just fine - particularly with the small barrier strips Klisch uses - and there's much less chance of having a stray strand of wire shorting out than there is with bare wire.

James

[Daddy Dee]

I don't think it would make any difference in terms of oxidation, but they are more convenient.

Actually, can't improve the connection over bare wire.

[Islander]

I use crimp-on mini-spades, crimp them, then for good measure solder them as well. If the solder fills in any air gaps, that should improve conductivity and almost eliminate any oxidation of the cable within the connector, plus it makes it less likely that the connectors will ever loosen up.

With very fine-stranded wire, it's hard to get it to stay in place on a binding post, so it's much easier and more convenient to use some sort of connector.

[Mr. RF62]

Oxidation...seriously...maybe I'm just not knowledgable enough to know more information on this but, oxygen free wire and such?/?/? So like hydro wires that are bare should have better covers connecting to a house so the oxygen don't ruin the power input for my house????[*-)] What stops the oxygen from getting in through the port in my speaker and getting at the wires connecting the Woofer or are they coated as well. What about the connectors themselves, or being "gold-plated" stop the oxidation???

Anyone know some "knowledgable answers" to my misinformation, or is it really not that bad.

[:|]

[stereomaniac]

I have read that by crimping a connector on to the bare wire it creates a gas free contact area.

Meaning O2 has a harder time getting into the wire strands and causing oxidation.

Right now I am using bare wire, but it is a pain on reconnects and spades might make contact cleaning easier.

[stereomaniac]

Any experience with the twist on compression fit spades? They seem to be everywhere.

I am having a hard time finding crimp spades for my 16 gauge cable.

[Islander]

Oxidation...seriously...maybe I'm just not knowledgable enough to know more information on this but, oxygen free wire and such?/?/? So like hydro wires that are bare should have better covers connecting to a house so the oxygen don't ruin the power input for my house???? What stops the oxygen from getting in through the port in my speaker and getting at the wires connecting the Woofer or are they coated as well. What about the connectors themselves, or being "gold-plated" stop the oxidation???

Gold-plated connectors don't oxidize, but uncoated speaker wire does. Oxygen-free copper is better than the cheaper type for conductivity reasons, but as for oxidation, there's plenty of oxygen in the air, so oxygen-free copper wire oxidizes as quickly as any other kind.

The wires inside your speaker (and most other places as well) have insulation on them, which keeps the electricity in and the oxygen out, so you don't need to worry about oxidation there. The only insulated wire that seems to corrode is the cheap Home Depot stuff that you can see turning green through the clear insulation over time. That doesn't happen all the time, but it has been reported a few times.

If you use bare wire to connect to your speakers, you might want to snip off the exposed part and strip back the insulation so you can re-connect with non-oxidized cable. Depending on the local climate, that would be at most twice a year, or possibly every few years. Connectors can help shield the wire from the air, so that's another reason to use them, as well as the convenience.

[Mr. RF62]

Oookay. Thanks Islander. Thats what I wanted to hear. So its not THAT complicated or extensive.

Thanks again.

[IndyKlipschFan]

If you get anal.. you can tin solder the ends too.. less of a problem with your exposed copper..[]

[mas]

Gold-plated connectors don't oxidize, but uncoated speaker wire does. Oxygen-free copper is better than the cheaper type for conductivity reasons, but as for oxidation, there's plenty of oxygen in the air, so oxygen-free copper wire oxidizes as quickly as any other kind.

The wires inside your speaker (and most other places as well) have insulation on them, which keeps the electricity in and the oxygen out, so you don't need to worry about oxidation there. The only insulated wire that seems to corrode is the cheap Home Depot stuff that you can see turning green through the clear insulation over time. That doesn't happen all the time, but it has been reported a few times.

I really don't want to get into this, but we are quickly entering the fantasy zone here.

"Oxygen free" refers to the wire composition, not to an external environment.

And insulation does not keep oxygen out!!! Plastic is gas permeable - even a Baggie! It simply reduces the rate of gas transfer!

And gold, while exhibiting less oxidation, exhibits a higher resistivity!

Gold only offers a benefit in highly corrosive environments where access is restricted. So the benefits most associate with gold is primarily hype in a normal environement where the contacts can be cleaned every year or so. ...And it sure is purty.

Caig's Cramolin/DeOxit/'whatever the name is this week' offers a measureably beneficial treatment (eg. it does measureably reduce bit error rates). But note the German source is the original composition while that currently available in the US is a modified composition reformulated to allow its sale here- and it is less effective than the original - which is still available if you look for it.

High pressure militiary spec crimps do provide a superior bond (and satisfy the high virbration environments encountered in aircraft), but these are not the crimps that you will apply at home, so the talk of the advatage of crimps are a bit spurious.

So, if you worry that this is the limiting factor in your system (its not), you might consider treating the wire with Cramolin and then soldering the wire with a good quality silver solder. Tinning the copper also coats it with a higher resisitivity material thus reducing the conductivity! Rather like adding corrosion yourself!

Failing that, just put the wire back into the connector and listen to your stereo and clean the contacts once a year. And as mentioned, banana plugs offer a convenient (and less often shorted) manner of connection. You will be fine with either. But if it ain't broke.....

Why am I convinced that interconnects, crossovers and caps are the focus of so much obsessive behavior simply because they are the most user accessible components?

[stereomaniac]

Thanks for the info. I think I will just get some good quality crimp-spades. I will clean the wires and connectors first, crimp the connectors on and call it a day.

I have some of the Caig contact cleaner and it works really well. May not make a huge performance difference, but the metal is shiny[H].

[Jay481985]

Gold-plated connectors don't oxidize, but uncoated speaker wire does. Oxygen-free copper is better than the cheaper type for conductivity reasons, but as for oxidation, there's plenty of oxygen in the air, so oxygen-free copper wire oxidizes as quickly as any other kind.

The wires inside your speaker (and most other places as well) have insulation on them, which keeps the electricity in and the oxygen out, so you don't need to worry about oxidation there. The only insulated wire that seems to corrode is the cheap Home Depot stuff that you can see turning green through the clear insulation over time. That doesn't happen all the time, but it has been reported a few times.

I really don't want to get into this, but we are quickly entering the fantasy zone here.

"Oxygen free" refers to the wire composition, not to an external environment.

And insulation does not keep oxygen out!!! Plastic is gas permeable - even a Baggie! It simply reduces the rate of gas transfer!

And gold, while exhibiting less oxidation, exhibits a higher resistivity!

Gold only offers a benefit in highly corrosive environments where access is restricted. So the benefits most associate with gold is primarily hype in a normal environement where the contacts can be cleaned every year or so. ...And it sure is purty.

Caig's Cramolin/DeOxit/'whatever the name is this week' offers a measureably beneficial treatment (eg. it does measureably reduce bit error rates). But note the German source is the original composition while that currently available in the US is a modified composition reformulated to allow its sale here- and it is less effective than the original - which is still available if you look for it.

High pressure militiary spec crimps do provide a superior bond (and satisfy the high virbration environments encountered in aircraft), but these are not the crimps that you will apply at home, so the talk of the advatage of crimps are a bit spurious.

So, if you worry that this is the limiting factor in your system (its not), you might consider treating the wire with Cramolin and then soldering the wire with a good quality silver solder. Tinning the copper also coats it with a higher resisitivity material thus reducing the conductivity! Rather like adding corrosion yourself!

Failing that, just put the wire back into the connector and listen to your stereo and clean the contacts once a year. And as mentioned, banana plugs offer a convenient (and less often shorted) manner of connection. You will be fine with either. But if it ain't broke.....

Why am I convinced that interconnects, crossovers and caps are the focus of so much obsessive behavior simply because they are the most user accessible components?

damn mas you seemed to cover it all......

the best explanation of oxygen free copper is the process of manufacturing. When copper is exposed to oxygen during smelting it can cause alot of problems later like premature oxidation. also oxygen free copper is usally higher purity copper with less impurities.

[Groomlakearea51]

Oxidation...seriously...maybe I'm just not knowledgable enough to know more information on this but, oxygen free wire and such?/?/? So like hydro wires that are bare should have better covers connecting to a house so the oxygen don't ruin the power input for my house???? What stops the oxygen from getting in through the port in my speaker and getting at the wires connecting the Woofer or are they coated as well. What about the connectors themselves, or being "gold-plated" stop the oxidation???

Anyone know some "knowledgable answers" to my misinformation, or is it really not that bad.

Sometimes (if not quite often...) so called "O2 free" copper wire is really not as O2 free as the advertisers would lead most to believe. Most is either CA-110, or at best CA-102 alloy (CA-101 is prohibitively expensive and not seen much in "home audio" speaker wire). The lower the amount of oxygen the less oxidation that can occur within the wire itself over time. This is really more important for stranded wire (as in speaker wire). The thinner the strands, the greater the problem because multiple stranded wire has not only an increased surface area, it is also being attacked by oxidation on the surface. It has to do with conductivity, but for "home" applications is likely undetectable. That effect is called "impurity scattering" and relates to impedance. When someone says 99.999% oxygen free, before one buys their wire at $10 a foot...., one should ask them for the alloy used. True "O2 free" is CDA-101. CA-110, however, also called "electrolytic tough pitch copper" is considered to be the best conductor short of pure silver. Gold, while noted for it's ability to not corrode, is not as good a conductor as copper. Thus gold as a plating over otherwise some other alloy as a "connector" between components are commonly used.

As far as connectors that are "gold" plated vs alloy crimp on types, the advantage is in the resistance of the gold material to protect the substrate from otherwise oxidizing, thus a gold connector inherently will last longer because at the actual surface contact point(s) there is theoretically no oxygen present to corrode the wire (if they are screwed on real tight...). On the other hand, using a crimp on "spade", or a "fork" as required by older Heresy's, etc. a good crimp will likely suffice, at least for some reasonable time.

Using solder, and in particular silver solder on a crimped "fork" connector, will certainly extend the life of the connection for quite awhile, and is better, from a conductivity point, better than "gold connectors". It then, however, becomes a cost vs benefit issue. Crimping and soldering the crimps is time intensive, while gold connectors with fresh exposed copper stranded speaker wire is certainly quicker (and they look so pretty too.....)

Oxidation attacks the exposed surfaces of the speaker wire (and the exposed surfaces of crimped spade/ lug connections), rather than the wire(s) in and of themselves. Key is "exposed". There are a number of things you can do when making crimp connections that inhibit this corrosion problem. First is make sure the wires are clean... very clean. Some copper/silver polish, followed by some vinegar as a wipe off will make them shiny (clean). Second is after the crimp is made, you can use heat shrink tubing, or "liquid insulator" to protect the connection. Or strip off the plastic covering around the crimp part and solder it. Interestingly, Klipsch used acid core solder back in the 70's when soldering their crossover wires with the spades to the drivers. The acid cleaned and etched the wire and the spade and made sure there was a clean surface to join.

Does corrosion on speaker wires "upstream" from the connector affect the conductivity. Likely not, and what that really is in fact is moisture that got in between the plastic sheathing and the wire itself. "Grody Green" is usually found in crappy wire that is a cheap copper alloy to start with. Unfortunately, the "el-cheapo" (probably CA-150 wire which has zirconium) is susceptible to corrosion.

Hope that helps a bit. FWIW I use "crimped" forks, soldered with plain old 12 gauge CA-110 alloy ETP stranded/ braided wire. They ain't eye candy, but they work and don't break the bank.

[Mr. RF62]

Very good reply GroomLake.

Thanks for informative reply.

[] I am happy now.