ChrisK Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Looking for advice on Tuner/Antenna combos. I live in Southern California very near the ocean. My favorite radio station (KLON) does not have great signal strength in my area. With this in mind, I have a couple of questions... 1. Just how good is the sound from FM radio? How does it compare to CD? Am I pissing up a rope here? 2. My initial research shows a HUGE price variance on tuners. Is it strictly "You get what you pay for", or are there reasonable options to megabuck equipment? The popular audio forums have demonstrated to me how easy it is to get fantastic bang for your buck when it comes to hifi gear. I hope the same rings true for tuners. Thanks in advance, Chris ------------------ HT Klipsch KG2.5 (front & rear) Klipsch KV2 (center) Klipsch SW12 (sub) Marantz SR700 receiver Toshiba DTS DVD JVC SVHS VCR Sony Hi8 VCR 2 channel Klipsch Cornwalls (1978) Decware Zen SE84C amp Arcam Alpha MCD cd player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 ckj: CD's definitely sound better than FM broadcasts. FM signals are more compressed (less highs and lows) plus they carry an 18 kHz Pilot Signal that creates a funny sounding twist and squeal on the highs on revealing equipment. But, if you find a good FM station you like, it's a great way to hear what's new. Where you are at, look for a tuner section with good sensitivity (to pick up a weaker signal if that is the problem) and selectivity (to reject interference from stations on adjacent frequencies which is probably a sure problem in your populated area). Even with good specs with these, an in-home trial on whatever antenna you have is the only way to know if it will meet your goals. Also, FM signals tend to be the most difficult to receive in the daylight hours, due to the sun and many different outside variables such as business communications during the day, etc., so test the tuner both night and day. While we are on the subject (and I cringe a bit at mentioning this because I have friends in radio broadcasting)XM Satellite radio is here (competitor Sirius is on the way), and although I have not heard it yet, it works on the same principle as DBS Satellite TV. If you have a "clear shot" at the satellite, you have a clean signal of many types of music/news, etc. Most units out now are for the car, but home tuners are starting to appear. PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 What no one has said is you can get really wonderful, rich FM sound from stations that dont employ much compression of the signal. If you notice, most of the public radio stations in the lower numbers that play classical and jazz sound far better than the big commercial stations. That is because these monster commercial stations compress the signal like a bastard so it will literally JUMP out at you when you pass it on the dial. These stations have a false sense of dynamics but are really quite two dimensional sounding. On the other hand, tune into the quality public radio stations and while you will have to crank the volume up a bit more, you will be rewarded with more open and relaxed sound that through excellent tuners can sometimes rival or even sound smoother and more refined than a bad CD source! The same holds true for college stations that rely on more vinyl than CD and do not have massive compression. As for the antenna, mdeneen is right...the outdoor directional antennas win out BIG. I would disagree with the indoor approach as I think the powered antennas you get from Terk and similar ilk REALLY suck sonically. While they may bring in some distant stations, they REALLY sound like dreck and add a lot of hash and fill up the space between the notes. To the casual ear, they will work fine..but if you have a really quality tuner, you will notice the difference. In fact, the simple T antenna done right is better sounding than the amplified antennas. I have a Sumo Athena tuner from the 80s that is very highly rated. It was made in California and sounds quite nice. Yet this unit was replaced by a 1954 Mono EICO HFT-90 all tube FM tuner! To me, it sounds BETTER, believe it or not. Here is a page I did for it when I was going to sell one: http://12.16.160.65/ebay1/eico-hft-90.htm Scott also makes some nice sounding tuners. For cheaper solid state tuners with "ok" sonics, you can also try the NAD tuners from the 80s such as the 41-- series. Proton used the same circuitry as well. There are other used classics that I will have to dust off the memory cap for... kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-04-2002 at 03:18 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 I listen to KLON about 95% of the time when I have the radio on (KCRW the other 5%). I live in Long Beach, so reception is not a big problem, but Multipath is! I use a McIntosh MR-71 all tube unit from the 60's and a MI-3 multipath scope. I have a roof mounted FM antennae. I wish I had popped for a remote control antennae, but after some trial and error I get pretty much perfect reception for KLON. I think FM sounds great--maybe not up to vinyl or even CD quality, but KLON doesn't compress the crap out of everything and I get to hear a bunch of new stuff there. I also listen to FM through my Fisher preamp/tuner in my second system and through a 500C Fisher in my garage. But these I listen to through simple indoor antennae and the reception is only OK. I don't know much about newer tuners, but I'm sure the Magnum Dynalab stuff is pretty good from what I've heard and read. If stereo isn't all that important to you and you don't want to mess with tubes, I think you might get away with one of the new Kloss table radios--they have output jacks and are supposed to be GREAT for the $99 they cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Lordy, indeed... That Mcintosh tuner is $$$$$$!!! Same with the Magnum Dynalab, which I think is ok but a bit overrated. There are some really good used tuner bargains; I just have to try to remember the damn things. As for the tuners that Allan lists, yes...but they are big ducats. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfish1966 Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 I like the Fisher 100b ($150.00). The Mac MR-67 is very similar to 100b but more expensive. MD ft-11 is an ok budget ss tuner which I purchased for $325 used. I own all the tuners listed below in excellent to near- mint condition and have compared side by side in both stock and rebuilt/aligned condition (excluding the 100b and ft-11 which remained stock): Fisher 100b, 200b & FM1000, Mac mr67, MD ft-11. The 100b is a simlple design and specs were lower than the 200b and FM1000. Specs didn't matter, the stock 100b was the clear winner in all areas. I thought I was crazy and contacted several individuals to discuss my findings. VTV will be featuring an article on the 100b in next issue. I have only been an audio enthusiast for a year and now know great specs and high price do not always translate to good sound/performance. Hope this helped! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 The whole $$$$$ still kinda gets by me I guess. I paid $125 for my MR-71 back in the mid 1980's. I bought the Fisher 500C in 1976 for $75. I guess the MR-71 goes for several hundred dollars now. Not worth that, but it's been a real fine tuner for me over the last 15 years or so! Had to have it aligned once and a tube here and there, but pretty much rock solid. The MI-3 scope was part of a custom "console" I picked up in Palm Springs a few years ago from a newspaper ad. It included a MAC 2105 amp, C26 preamp. MR73 tuner and MI3 scope. $200 for all of it in a beautiful custom walnut cabinet. I've since parted with everything but the scope--it's just TOO COOL to sell! I haven't really spent much $$$ on this hobby until fairly recently--now I have interconnects that cost more than my old MAC MC-30 mono amps! And I just received via UPS a new Linn Sizmik subwoofer to play with that cost 3 times what I paid for my Cornwalls! Time marches on and I'm another day closer to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Taylor Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 If you want to read about Tuners check out yhis site http://geocities.com/tunerinfo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 GREAT tuner page link! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I'm here ate the CES show in Vegas. One of the most exciting products I've seen is from Outlaw Audio - the ULTIMATE tuner! It tunes over 1700 plus (and rapidly growing) stations off of the internet .... from all over the world ... id'ed by country, gendre, call letters .... crystal clear digital signals ... got WQXR FM (Classical Radio Station of NY Times)fron NYC here in Vegas ...sounded great! What a great idea!!!!!And of course, typical Outlaw high quality and internet direct low price of $299!!! Not on their site as yet but will be soon I'm told. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Soundog, Do me a favor and drop by the Atma-Sphere - Classic Audio Reproductions - Progressive Engineering room at the Tuscany Hotel in Room H109. See Mike Peschetto and his brand new turntable with the insane Atma-Sphere OTL tube amps with the Classic Audio Reproductions HORNS that look REALLY interesting. Mike needs all the support he can get as he is just starting out with this new turntable that he is BUILDING BY HAND! It is a GEM! Top notch in every way. Let me know how it's going there! kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Mobil Homeless- I plan to go to the T.H.E. tomorrow and I'll check it out. Here's some pictures of the new tuner courtesy of some of the guys from the Outlaw site. http://www.gspr.com/Images/IR1000_front_300.jpg http://www.gspr.com/Images/IR1000_rear_300.jpg ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oosting Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 If you don't want to jump in head first, you can try the el-cheapo route. I picked up a used Yamaha digital AM-FM tuner from a pawn shop for $50. Hooked it to a RatShack outdoor FM antenna ($20, cat # 15-2163). I mounted the antenna in the attic of my garage! I whipped up an antenna turning device (rotator) with pvc pipe. The whole thing works quite nicely. We use it to listen to public radio stations up to 100 miles away. Total investment is around $90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arco Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 I would tend to agree with Mobile on compression issues regarding most music played by today's FM stations. Soundwise, CD is much better and if one has to listen to the radio just to pass time or for informational purposes, he can do so with a very cheap tuner + int. antenna. BUT: The real sport, here, is to find stations that transmit live musical events directly. I myself am a tuner fanatic for that reason and only (own a MR71 a Revox B261 and a Sony ST770ES)and I can assure you that once you hear such an event on a good machine, CD is pale in comparison... You can, of course, always record it on DAT or CD for repeating the pleasure! Is the cost for indulging in such a pleasure high? Well, yes and no...If you want to buy the best in actual production tuners, then yes the cost could be high! Do not forget, though, that some of the best machines ever built are the analog tuners of yore: McIntoshes, Heathkits, Scotts not to mention well regarded items from European or Japanese manufacturers. Many of these tuners you can buy for a song, provided you know a dependable tech who can upgrade and align them correctly. The cost, finally, for a good (eventually directional...) antenna might be on the highish side, but then again that will depend on your geographical location vs the stations you are interested in... Those are my two cents... Aristidis www.aca.gr/pop_coumpas.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjrbass Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 First off, please advise me if this is really poor advice. You might want to take an older receiver, with a good FM tuning section, and use this as your tuner. I wanted a budget priced tuner for background music in my apartment. I decided to use my retired 1970's Sansui G-4700 receiver as a tuner, by using the TAPE OUT connections. The receiver employs the older technology tuning section, with a quartz locked frequency locking circuit. A 2 foot piece of wire is all that I use as an antenna, and stations are plentyful. The result is great reception and no FM station drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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