home theater upgrade - subs?

[beemer]

This post might actually belong in the Subwoofers section, but since more of my listening is done in Home Theater, I figured what the heck.

First off, I'd like to comment on how helpful and informative this forum and it's members are. I have very recently began an overhaul of my system after receiving a new receiver/amp at Christmas. In the short period of time since then, I have gleaned a lot of useful information from previous posts and from direct answers from other members. (Thanks LyleS, the info on speaker settings really helped. I did pick up that SPL meter and made some substantial improvements with proper calibration of my speakers.)

That being said, I have found myself searching for more information. With the new reciever and properly calibrated speakers, I am questioning my low-end. The bass is there, but not at the levels I would like to experience - I can hear the T-Rex walking in JP but I'd like to feel him too. Don't get me wrong - I have no interest in vibrating pictures off the wall (the wife would be in speaker-spearing mode) or getting visits from the local constabulary, courtesy the neighbours. I just want to get a richer and deeper "feel" from my sound. I am running my sub via line inputs (with a high quality sub cable and y-connector) with the sub filter set to max (to allow receiver to handle bass management). My mains are set to large and all others at small. Does anyone else have experience with Yamaha subwoofers? Have I got something wrong or am I just expecting too much from my 10 year old sub. Advice would be most appreciated.

Second question: Assuming my sub has reached the limit, opinions on an upgrade would be also appreciated. I have done a fair bit of research and have narrowed the field to a few candidates based on availability in my area and affordability (unfortunately my pockets aren't as deep as my tastes in audio equipment). And the nominees are...

Klipsch KSW-12 (sentimental favorite for obvious reasons-but do I have to buy fuses by the gross?)

Velodyne VLF-1012 (it's a velodyne and local dealer has an excellent price)

Boston Acoustics PV-600 (another local dealer with excellent price - nice tight sound)

Monitor ASW-110 or 210 (specs and reviews seem quite positive)

Paradigm PS-1000 (good dealer)

Comments and/or critique will be most appreciated.

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System:

Technics SA-DA8

Sony CDP-C435 CD

Sony DVP-NS300 DVD

Hitachi UX617 VHS

Klipsch KG4's Fronts

Klipsch KG2.2's Surrounds

Klipsch SC-1 Center

Yamaha YST-SW100 sub

This message has been edited by beemer on 01-09-2002 at 08:49 PM

[matthew2]

Hey,

I can't comment on your yammy, but I can tell ya that it is quite possible that you are expencting to much from your sub. Something that old from a mass-market brand may not perform well. (espeially sub's)

The only good yamaha sub I know about is the YSTSW800.

The KSW12 is a decent sub. KSW15 seems better for HT. Velodyne CT-150 is awsome to. Everyone here seems to love SVS, Iv never herd or seen one before.

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Matthew

Gatta' love klipsch

[P Ward]

Beemer,

Have you thought about bass shakers or tactile transducers? I have several in my couch and it adds the feel that you maybe looking for. I really like them, they add a punch to the bass without having to really turn up the sub. Also late a night, I turn off the sub and just turn up the shakers so as to not disturb the rest of the house or neighbors.

Clark makes an expensive one, I have the el cheapo 10 buck varity and like them just fine. I'll try and find a link to them later.

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Paul Ward

my home theater www.brookesbakersurveyors.com/klipschht.htm

[dougdrake2]

Beemer - Your lack of strong low bass may be because you have your mains set to large. Most of the low bass is actually found in the front left/right channels, not the .1 (LFE) nor the rears/center. By setting your mains to large and everything else to small, your receiver is probably sending all the low bass to your main speakers, and only the .1 and the bass below about 80hz in the rears/center (of which there is little) to the sub.

Try setting your mains to small, or see if your receiver has a setting that directs bass to fronts AND sub, if your fronts are set to large.

Doug

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My System

[ttubbiola]

I spend a lot of time on the www.hometheaterforum.com and there are a LOT of good things said about SVS subwoofers www.svsubwoofers.com/ .

[MagnumMan]

Doug,your comment about switching speaker setting to small makes me think twice about new receivers.I always get confused on how people have things setup. My HK AVR 80 has 6 CH direct inputs,so when I'm watching movies,it bypasses all processing inside. I've been playing around with my system since adding the KG 5.5's and C7. In the setup menu, I switch the subwoofer to off,which throws bass back into mains. An LFE signal still goes to subs.

There are so many things to look at!

beemer, I agree to try them out to see if they appeal to you in your environment. When setting up systems for friends,the first thing I do with the sub is turn the crossover setting all the way down. This will give you more punch without having the walls vibrating and rumbling. That's why I doubt I'll ever buy a powered sub. Have a good box made and have a your own crossover setup.

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Jerry

CP RULZ

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Mains: KG 5.5

Rears: KG 3.5

Center: KLF-C7

Receiver: HK AVR-80

DD Processor: HK ADP-303

DTS Processor: Rotel RDA 985

AudioControl Phase Coupled Activator Series Three

DVD: Toshiba 4109X

Laserdisc: Yamaha CDV-W901

5 CH Amp(for subs): Rotel RB-985

Single Cass Deck: HK TD-420

Dual Cass Deck: HK DC-520

[edwardre]

I find that using the SPL and 'properly' calibrating my system via Avia, Vid Essentials, etc likewise does not adequately produce what I'm looking for in a HT system. I consider my KSW200 sub to be the weak link as it's surrounded by an army of big old heritage's which naturally have been set to 'large'.

My solution to achieve the 'feel' I want has been to dial LF,C,LR,RL,& RR to identical levels using the SPL meter, and crank up the bass considerably from there.

Hear it all. Feel it all. Experience it all.

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Ed

[LyleS]

Hi, I agree with the previous poster,

I often set my sub to 5 to 7 db higher than the mains and surrounds. (E.g. everything else set to 75 db, subwoofer to 80 or 82 db)

There are two factors at play, First the Radio shack spl meter does not measure lower frequencies as accurately as mid or high frequencies. There are conversion tables on the net to translate the measured db for bass to the actual levels. Usually only an issue if you are running a test disk with tones at various frequencies and using an equaliser to level out a hump induced by room interaction.

Second, I think that we don't perceive lower frequencies to be as loud at the same volume level. That's why many receivers have a loudness button to boost the bass when listening to material at low to moderate volumes ... *Before I get flamed. I'm not necesarily an advocate for using that button, or even for mucking around with the tone controls for bass and treble. I much prefer to leave my tone controls in the flat position ...

Good luck with your sub hunt, one suggestion if you can find one used is the 5 to 7 year old klipsch subs:

SW-12, or SW-12-II or SW-15. This series of subs was made with a front firing woofer, and a passive radiator. I've had the THX-version KT-SW-15 for a couple of years now, and can verify that it's performance far surpasses the recent down firing subs from Klipsch. Interesting to see that the new reference series subs have returned to that basic design using front firing drivers and passive radiators.

For further info, look at the product pages for discontinued equipment on this site, and do a couple of searches for SW-12 series subs.

Lyle.

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Gear: Klipsch La Scala ;THX home cinema: KT-LCR, KT-SW15

Onkyo Integra DTR-7 THX

Panasonic RP91 DVD

NAD 7140 Stereo receiver powering LaScalas