ka7niq Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I have some Klipsch CF 3's, and I had been using them in a passive bi amp configuration. Both amps have level controls, so I could reduce the horns level. I just bought a small tube amp off AudioGon for my Infinity Preludes. The Preludes are being refoamed, and so I wanted to hear my new toy. So, I un biwired/un biamped the CF 3's, and used the 25 WPC tube amp to run the CF 3;s full range. The sound was TERRIBLE My Dared tube preamp was making noises, and so I pulled the whole pair off line. I put in an OLD, ex top of line Pioneer receiver I bought at a Pawnshop. I USED to own one years ago, when I still had the CF 4's. To my complete suprise, the old Pioneer receiver sounds wonderful with the CF 3's. Just for some more kicks, I threw in a newer Yamaha RX V1. No match for the imaging and musicality of the old Pioneer. I have a JVC RX DP 9, threw it in, Pioneer was still WAY better. Hooked up an OLD Sump Athena preamp, and tried several amps. The old Pioneer still rules on the CF 3's. Actually, I can SEE why many dont care for the CF series speaker. They can sound like CHIT with the wrong amp. I can't understand HOW the CF 3's can be so revealing ? They are a 2 way, and do not cross to their horn until 1500 hz or so. They are not as efficient as Khorns or Cornwalls, etc, etc. Just by changing from the old Pioneer to the Yamaha, the magic is lost. And I mean it is like night and day too. Are YOUR Klipsch speakers amp critical too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Amplifier Critical ? ................ Nah, as long as it's a SCOTT !!!! Do some receivers sound better than others while using Klipsch Speakers, Of Course they do !!!!!!!! I've had Sony's that sound good, I've had Sony's that sound bad on the same speakers !!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Drug problem huh? Taking too many of those placebos? All amps sound the same. (I read that somewhere) I don't doubt that the Pioneer is pleasant to listen to, I do doubt that it is the last word in accuracy and detail. Horn HF drivers act like magnifying glasses, you hear all the warts as well as the nice things. I think most manufacturers aim for the jukebox sound (assuming they know how to change the sound without changing the frequency response), warm and soft-focused sells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Are YOUR Klipsch speakers amp critical too ? Absolutely Yes! I use 45 SET amps with my modified Khorn/Altec speakers. Last year I bought a pair of highly regarded Monarchy S.S. Monoblocks, with the idea that I could use them for movies and just to have a pair of powerful S.S. around. I hooked them up and they sounded so bad I could not believe it. They were on Audiogon within 10 days! Amplifiers for me make a HUGE Difference! - Speaker wire is Speaker wire however! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 What 25 watt tube amp? They are not all the same, and neither is SS or for SET amps as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Just buy McIntosh and your worries are over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Yes it is .. Horn speakers are more revealing to what they are hooked up to. A good tube amp OR good SS amp gear is a must. Personally I use Aragon on one system and Sunfire on another.. My opinion??? 200 WPC a minimum, maybe more is better! (The 3005 Aragon I have been told.. is the real top of the line Aragon real deal... and the 400 WPC Sunfire might be as well..(I have the 200 wpc Sunfire It is incredible, 200 wpc in both cases I will admit.. is pretty darn amazing! ) WHY?? Dynamics.. headroom.. And longer term.... less stress on the amp as well.. While it is universally true that most Klipsch speakers, that first .05 watt to 5 watts is the real important area..... A lot can be said for the bigger amps ability to just do this without even trying hard. McIntosh amps also nice... new and used.. They all will have some kind of a sound print on your system... (Whether people admit it or not..LOL.) Be great if we could have a shoot out for sure! But rest assured, at this level, your still getting fantastic amps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 The Pioneer is an older VSX 9900S. It was Pioneers old top of line Dolby Pro Logic receiver. Pioneer made a big deal way back when about the sound quality of these receivers. It has an anti vibration chassis design, and Caps in power supply wrapped in rubber, LOL It is a wonderful sounding receiver on the CF 3's. It is VERY 3 dimensional, with good detail, and not a HINT of harshness. I know what you mean about warm and soft VS Accurate. On the BEST recordings, I prefer accurate, but on regular recordings, I prefer warm and soft. The Pioneer is on the warm and soft side, more like my Moscode 600 and Luxman M117. I have about 5 receivers, and many amps and preamps. My experience has shown me that a receiver or Integrated amp CAN sound good. I still want to try the Pioneer VSX 9900S on my B&W Matrix 801's, and see how it sounds. Funny, but I do not really find the Matrix 801's to be NEARLY as "fussy" about amps. They pretty much sound good with whatever is powering them at the time. But the CF 3's are very different. They can sound like CHIT, but switch amps to one they like, it is a magical transformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Turns out my Tube Preamp took a crap. The amp is a Tube integrated, and so I ran the CD player straight in, bypassing the preamp entirely. It still did not sound great, not horrible, but not great either, just so so. The amp is made for 8 ohm loads, the CF 3's are 4 ohms, only ONE tap on transformers, amp sounds wonderful on 8 ohm speakers. The Pioneer VSX 9900s transforms the CF 3's, they go from sounding "ordinary" with the tube amp to spectacular with the Pioneer. The CF 3's image very well, with stuff coming from outside and back behind the speakers IF they have an amp they like. The Pioneer VSX 9900S is shockingly 3 dimensional for a receiiver, actualy shockingly 3 dimensional for anything, on the CF 3's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 I have found that Klipsch speakers play by a different set of rules [] The Monarchy's are highly regarded by our old friend Morricab from Audio Asylum Cut Throat. I remember you from the Asylum, you went horns, and never went back ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 It is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 yes,, it is made for 8 ohms, are you in Michigan ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I remember you from the Asylum, you went horns, and never went back ! I also went SET amps at the same time, and when you do that Horns may be your only option! I am still over at the Asylum, In the SET, Hi-Eff and the Outside Forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Cool, good to know you are still around! You just disappeared from Speaker Asylum. I saw the picture of the Belles you re did. They were beautiful! You do nice work [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Cool, good to know you are still around! You just disappeared from Speaker Asylum. I saw the picture of the Belles you re did. They were beautiful! You do nice work Thanks! - I sold the Belles to Forum member DoubleJ, when I got my Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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