ShapeShifter Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Had been looking for one cosmetically clean, but bone stock. Got one a month ago and finally got time to check it out this past weekend. Initially it had a bit of noise and distortion especially in the phono stage, plus a bad EL84 tube. Opened it up, removed all tubes and cleaned with compressed air, then gave it two liberal treatments with DeoXit 5 placing it top side down overnight each time. Added new tubes and polished its brass plate. Man on man, this little unit is a real sleeper! It took every components output I threw at it, (CD,Mini Disc & Tape) and returned an unbelievable sound. Finally it came time for the phono session, selected Jon-Luc Ponty "Civilized Evil", (circa 1980), held my breath and lowered the tone armWHAM! It was unbelievable that this old thing could produce music like that! Ponty had come to life in my own room. Jeez, he's playing for me...those strings had a life, those horns, that drummer and his brush strokes on the cymbals were all were here...everyone had steeped out from the behind the curtain and were personally playing for me. Sorry about the rambling, but I just had to express my experience & say you were dead-on-balls correct, the Echo HF-81 is an impressive little inexpensive unit. Hummaybe I can connect the Fisher to it for duty as a tuner? Regards, Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Where other than Ebay and Audiogon can one find one of these pups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 So far, I have convinced 11 people to get the EICO HF-81 over the last few years. I have received comments from most of them. So far, not one person has come away disappointed in this great little amp, an amp that has a soul and personality very much like the Klipsch vintage horn speakers. And on an additional note, it was the FIRST tube component many had heard and it hooked them and started a line of other tube purchases. The EICO carries with it some of the best qualities of audio and never fails to make music, even in completely stock form with components that are close to 40 years old. When it is taken care of with tweaks and mods here and there, keeping the circuit intact, but optimizing it...well, it just moves on to a magical piece of gear that is faithful to the music with all the superlatives that ride along with the Audiophildo set, except it is in a homely, integrated amp, and not a 200w, 1/2 inch thick faceplate, 100lb behemoth. Yes, there are better amps...more transparent...more silence between the notes...more detail... But to be honest, the EICO contains all that is needed to move to the music. And to be honest, it actually DOES have all the above traits as it IS transparent with life-like detail and a GREAT rhythmic drive. It has BETTER bass than my EL-34 50w amp...and all from a Williamson 14w triode input push-pull tube amp. I know that I will never sell my first one. I sometimes revolve it into my main system and when I do, I always get a big smile on my face. When an old band mate came through town from traveling across the country from Seattle, collection records at all the shops and dives across the country, we hooked up the trusty EICO HF-81 to the Cornwalls run by my Linn LP-12 into a Cary as the phono unit. WE stayed up all night listening to great vinyl picked from all across the nation. And when the sun started to rise, we both realized it was one of those evenings that you will never forget. And a good portion of the magic was the lowly EICO HF-81... oh yeah.... He bought one off ebay two weeks later. kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-25-2002 at 09:55 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 I looked at the Eico info at your site. Did a little net browsing on the HF81, and there is no bad feedback that I could find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Just about the only place you can consistantly find the EICO HF-18 is on Ebay. Otherwise, they do turn up on AudiogoN and other online sale sites but much less frequently. If it is on AudiogoN, then the loon knows what he has and it will be in the $200-300 range. Still, if you can get a perfect one for $250, it is STILL a STEAL, believe it or not. Take any AV receiver or modern Circuit City dump and it will eat it alive with so much more musicality and life... Literally, there is no comparison. I walked into Best Buy the other day looking for some printer paper and noticed a gaggle of humanoids hovering in the Audio section. Man. It was depressing. More bells and whistles than a video game.... People pay thousands for this junk. You almost want to say something but know it is useless. Most people consider home theatre to be the only music system they will own. And to this bunch, an aging two channel tube amp seems as practical as a tide clock in Detroit. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Take any AV receiver or modern Circuit City dump and it will eat it alive with so much more musicality and life... Ironically, all the feedback said the same. I'll lurk the Ebay, but I'm too thrilled with that thought. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 shapeshifter, Another happy camper! I just chuckle when reading about someone else as surprised and pleased as I was when I fired up my HF81. Mine has developed a hum heard only when idle, and I need to take the time to De-ox and clean everything, but it's difficult to take it off line because I want to play music with it all the time. When I first posted my remarks of how pleased I was with this unit, I thought most would believe I was exaggerating. Not anymore. I don't know what tubes you've rolled, but for my EICO, new rectifier tubes made the most impact sonicly. I purchased two NOS Brimars from Tube World in the absence of finding Mullards. I have since found two new Mullards but have not rolled them to date. The Brimars are very nice and worth their cost to "me". Let your budget be your guide because there are less costly options found on mobiles page. Mobile's fountain of HF81 knowledge Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted January 22, 2002 Author Share Posted January 22, 2002 mobile, I was following a couple of the tube threads closely and taking note of the Eico comments. I have an Anthem Amp1 and Dynaco Mark II in use with my HT, plus an unassembled Sound Valve VTA-70i(couldn't pass on a bargin), which will do center or rear duty. Oh Yea, got the HT addition too. But I wanted a second music setup in a music only room. The Fisher 800-B works well for the music only in the HT room. However, for the second music only room, I needed something that would not break my budget, but would give me detail and soundstage you & a few others were describing. Those comments were what inspired me to seek more info on the Eico and ultimately buy one! jazzman, Surprised indeed! It's hard to believe that something that appears so simple and unassuming can deliver that kind of musical presence. The DeoXit treatment definitely made a real improvement; lowered the noise and virtually eliminated my distortion (mostly due to bad EL84). I've not detected any hum thus far. I did buy new tubes from Ned @Triode Electronics. Nothing exotic; Telsa/JJ ECC82's/83's and EL84's. He only had generic type Rectifiers available. Got a couple of Mullard 6CA4 Rectifiers on the way. Planning to move slowly & will gradually get better tubes and integrate them over time. Concentrating on getting more info on the unit, have manual & reviewing its schematics, so I can get familiar its component layout & wiring. So hopefully I can perform my own upgrades when I'm comfortable and confident. For now, I plan to use it and enjoy it in its original configuration. Have too many irons in the fire at the moment. Later all, Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 01-22-2002 at 11:02 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 shapeshifter, Inspired by your post, I got busy with my HF81 tonight to chase the hum. I removed all rolled tubes, did some eyeball and hand inspection, discovered several loose tube sockets which I tightened, several shots of air in all sockets, reinserted pulled tubes, replaced all remaining unrolled tubes with Mullard 12AX7s, and wallah,... hum is bye bye. Sound is better than ever and I haven't even used the Mullard EZ81 rectifiers yet. After initial connection, though the sound was very good, I knew it could get better because only a few of the tubes were brand or model matched. For immediate output tube help, I opted for the EI Yugo EL84's,(on sale). The HF81 had unmatched Teslas when I bought it. Wanted best rectification I could get, opted for NOS Brimar EZ81/6CA4, then Mullard NOS 12AU7s, now Mullard NOS 12AX7s. I have four Mullard made EL84 output tubes on the way after some cautious ebay shopping, but the EI Yugo EL84 tubes have been a very pleasant surprise. The prior owner had completed cap and other upgrades before I purchased it. He spent virtually no money on quality tubes. After my tube upgrades, this EICO sounds magnificent. I plan to pull my NOS tubes eventually and replace with less costly Mullard, Telefunken, and Bugle Boy tubes manufactured with other brand names screened on them. One of the nicest things about the HF81 is, the tubes used in it are readily available, and at many different price and quality levels. The Eico HF81 is currently driving my 75 Belles, connecting a Rega P3 turntable with RB300 tonearm/Elys cartridge; and an AH!Tjoeb 99 CD player. I will take it off line soon, to be replaced by the Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs I recently purchased. I think I've finally found the last piece of that setup, a decent preamp, and within my budget. At that point I will give the HF81 maybe a week of rest for a complete cleaning, face plate shinning, etc, then it's back on line driving a pair of 1980 Cornwalls. This post is a bit long winded because it is also an update and near conclusion to one of my first post, Bi-wiring Belles. That post was done to find ways to extract the rich sound I knew was hidden within my 75 vintage Belles, that my 100 plus watts of SS amp was not delivering to my ears. This HF81 is a mere 14 wpc, but it delivers the goods! This is also another Thank you to mobile homeless for his many suggestions, advice, and prodding along this upgrade path. I believe I'm almost there, knowing fully, no one is ever really...THERE. There's always one more piece to be upgraded. Yeah, like my cartridge............. Klipsch out. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 jazman, Good to hear that you've removed the hum from your Eico. A DeoXit treatment and the addition of the tubes you've chosen will not doubt raise the sonic notch a bit higher for your unit. I'm not looking forward to competing with the masses on eBay and other auction sites, but with bit of care and caution, I should be able to get the tubes I desire. Suppose the frustrations are worth it, if savings $20-25 for the correctly coded & branded tubes. Look forward to hearing how the 2A3 Moondogs sound with the Belles. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Thanks mobile for providing Insightful info on low cost tube amps! Very interesting, I'm just going to have to ge one of those. Any experience with Manley stuff? I was reading about the Stingray and as I understand it, they based the Stingray on the Eico HF-81? You input please.... -tb ------------------ Tim's Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Correction. I thought I read the Manely "Stingray" was based on the EICO DH-81, when in fact it was designed to use the same tubes as the EICO, the "EL-84" tubes. - tb ------------------ Tim's Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 The Manley Stingray sure has a lot of info on it online. IT is a very distinctive piece of gear. See the review at http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0500/stingray.htm. Based on my understanding of that amp, it will be a little more powerful as it uses four EL-84 per channel while the EICO has two. The Stingway is also a different design. It uses solid state rectification instead of tube rectification like the EICO. This is not as smooth to me but some say it gives tighter bass. The Stingray is also a Ultralinear amp instead of the Williamson circuit of the EICO. The EICO has bias that is not user adjustable while the Stingray has fixed bias that most be adjusted by the user. On the whole, I think the EICO would give a smoother more soulful presentation and would probably sound more refined in some ways. I think the Stingray might be more subjectively dynamic with a bit more snap...but not enough to embarrass the EICO. I think the EICO might be more suited to the vintage Klipsch. It is the more classic design. The Stingray is a neat amp though and probably sounds damn good...though I would imagine lacks a bit of the smooth magic of the EICO. The Stingray is about 40 years younger, however....and about 20 times more expensive! And probably less to worry about... Of course, the Stingray uses circuit boards while the EICO employs point to point wiring. I would imagine it would make a neat amp with a bit of tube rolling...as even ole Dick Olsher admits in the article. OF course, Dick Olsher is the same one that went gaga of the Golden Dragon 12AX7 tubes....tubes that sound HORRIBLE to me! I dont know what he was thinking...alas, it was long ago. Would be fun to give the Manley amp a whirl...yet I would still probably go with the EICO based on what I know of the two circuits. IF anyone has a chance to hear a Stingray, post about it. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-24-2002 at 06:00 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 An Important Note about the EICO HF-81f>s> Ok, I can't remember if I ever even mentioned this, but I obvsiously should have if I did not. I am sure most that have been interested in the EICO products such as the HF-81 have read some of the sites about them. IF you have, you would have immediately noticed that: The EICO's were sold as KITS for the hifi enthusiast (as well as factory wired). In other words, a lot of the examples you see floating around WERE actually made by the average hobbyist whose contruction skill and soldering talent are a guess at best. Now, some of these beasts were made VERY well with more care then a factory! The concerned DIY kit builder can sometimes show a pride and attention to detail had by few. Some, however, were also made by first time kit builders, who majored in cold solder joints as a pastime. So, in a way, you are dealing with the luck of the draw; hence, not all EICO HF-81 are created equal, my dear Klipsch comrades. This is something to keep in mind and a bit of the reason why you can have some of these great amps for very cheap. The parts quality (ie transformers etc) are top notch, and in some ways, are far better than products today! But still, one must keep in mind the idea that many of these were wired by others... JUST LIKE YOU! kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-25-2002 at 09:54 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 mobile, Thanks for the feedback on the Stingray. I might be bringing one of these home this weekend to try out. I'll try to give my impressions of it then. Info on the Eico-HF-81 is important, I certainly was not aware of that fact. Also regarding the EICO, are other models more or less desirable? I found a guy who has the ST-40 and the ST-70 for sale, he wants $250 for either, or $400 for both. He commented they have the 7591 output tubes. Any suggestions mobile? ------------------ Tim's Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted January 24, 2002 Author Share Posted January 24, 2002 Didn't think to mention that the many of the units were bought and assembled as kits. Thought most interested would have discovered that fact during their searches for info on the unit. If others are interested, the link below has a page with an original ad that shows kit and pre-wired prices. The page has diagram of what tubes go where shows all input/output jacks & speaker connections. There's also a link to a printable schematic. http://users.rcn.com/fiddler.interport/HF81.HTM Nice info for anyone's interested or curious. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 mdeneen is right. Basing an amp on the 7591 is like banking on the slim pickin's of expensive NOS or going full bore with the one new Sovtek offering that is now in production. It's supposed to be ok... but who wants to rely on that tube? Many LOVE the ST-70 and say it's an excellent amp. IT does have some nice transformers and you can convert it to an EL-34, a tube that I think is better than many, although I am actually partial to the EL-84. But in a way, the EL-34 is sort of like a horn....it has a BIG BOLD TONE and is very lush sounding. It's one of the most tube like of tubes. So many options... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Mobile, What about the Jolida 102B? It has a modest 25 watts, and uses the EL84 tubes? It's about $580. BTW: Found a guy who has two Eico HF-81's, One has had the transformers and tubes removed. But is in great cosmetic shape. The other is complete, but the previous owner installed a "push button" switch in the front panel. Between the two I should have a fine unit in good cosmetic condition. He want's $250 for both. You think I should take that deal? - tb ------------------ Tim's Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Well, I have heard a lot of good things about the little Jolida 102 EL-84 amp but I always forget to recommend it, perhaps because you dont see it used very often and at new price, it is getting up there. Still, if you dont feel like the hassle of a vintage piece, I bet you the Jolida 102b would be an excellent little amp. No, it does not have tube rectification and yes, it can probably be improved with some better NOS tubes...but my guess is you would not be disappointed. Also, it would respond well to upgrades in the parts. I do think, however, that the EICO would be a better sounding amp since it does have excellent transformers and tube rectification as well as a great circuit. But you are dealing with an OLD piece of equipment. If you have some electrical skills or are mechanical, you perhaps should take the chance on the EICOs. OTherwise, the Jolida might be a good option. What are you leaning towards? Does the Jolida have a 30 day return policy? Also, are you still auditioning the Manley Stingray? Would be interested to hear how it sounds from someone on here. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-25-2002 at 09:35 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Mobile - I am thinking about both actually. The EICO as a project for myself (and backup), and another newer tube (undecided) The Jolia is low cost, I like that, but there are no dealers around here. So If I was to go with that unit, it would be from advice of others here. I don't mind buying new as I already decided I need a decent AMP anyway. One thing about the Jolida is it does not have a phono section. I need advice on this area too. ;-) The local dealer carries Cary, Manely, and Antique Sound Labs tube amps. I own the Antique Sound Labs Headphone Amp (MG Head with OTL output) with stock tubes (Sovtek) and once it was broken in, it sounds very good to my ears. I'm uisng Sennheiser HD-600 phones. The Tube Headphone AMP is what got me interested in finding a Tube amp for my Klipsch. That, and the tube discussion here. Yea, I'll be trying the Manley out this weekend, and will give my feedback, however, Since I've nothing to compare it to, I don't know how valuable my opinion of it will be. I also don't have the excellent horns that some of you have, using just KG4's now, but looking to get into perhaps a Forte, Forte II, Chrous, or Chrous II in the near future. The Manely is really more than I wanted to spend on a tube setup (at this point anyway), because I really want to jump into vinyl and need to budget for that as well. What did you think about the used EICO I found? Is it worth it? I expect to get a photo of it emailed to me today. ------------------ Tim's Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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