New Guy here with some newbie-esque questions..Forte II's and amp "x"

[twistedcrankcammer]

I used 100 watt receivers for many years in my smallish 15x15 room, albeit with vaulted ceiling and open on one side by maybe five feet. That was plenty for spl levels. Recently went to 200 watts and separates and it sounds better at lower levels and astonishing when cranked. Very clean, crisp, and louder than you would want for an extended time, but definitely better. Decidedly not an aircraft hangar, and decidedly not overkill. Also enough for a larger room if that ever becomes an option.

=======================

My inference is you experiencing quality rather than quantity.

I see this is not a discussion about soundstage and realism of instruments.

Quality of sound??? Realism??? You prefer tubes, and we all know tubes color the sound. I doubt you have ever heard a Nakamichi amp, but you sure act like you know something. Your post with namecalling "head cases" shows me how very little you do know about the subject matter as you make statements that you cannot propperly articulate to bolster your possition. It still takes 4 times as much power in a Forte to get the same level output as a Cornerhorn!! That is directly pointed at your position that 200 watts is 2 much. The pro technitions run anywhere from 3 to 5 times the RMS rating of the speaker. Further, the Nakamichi is said to have a warmer tube like sound, and solid state is always more accurate in a better amp than similar quallity tube settup. Don't point fingers at others in a realm you seem so innept to argue.

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

There is definitely a quality difference. However the extra headroom of more power is also evident. As far as I knew when I posted this discussion was not about soundstage and realism of instruments. The realism now that you ask is still the same, it was always quite real with Forte II's. Mostly i was responding to twistedcranks comments as evidenced by my use of quote as the software allows, without any modification on my part.

Audio Flynn,

Alot of tube guys like the tubes because they have better bass at low listening levels. What oldtimer is referencing to you, is that if you take two amps of the same quallity like a Nakamichi PA-5 at 100 watts per channel, and a Nakamichi PA-7 at 200 watts per channel, is that you get a better down low bass hit at listening volumes, as well as cleaner and better sounding music when you are pushing your speakers. You don't have to push them, but the potential is there as well as better sound reproduction at lower levels, and as he said, if someday the guys future allows for a larger sound stage, he will already have the extra headroom, but that doesn't mean that there aren't possitive atributes of going larger that he can enjoy now.

Roger

[Audio Flynn]

I used 100 watt receivers for many years in my smallish 15x15 room, albeit with vaulted ceiling and open on one side by maybe five feet. That was plenty for spl levels. Recently went to 200 watts and separates and it sounds better at lower levels and astonishing when cranked. Very clean, crisp, and louder than you would want for an extended time, but definitely better. Decidedly not an aircraft hangar, and decidedly not overkill. Also enough for a larger room if that ever becomes an option.

=======================

My inference is you experiencing quality rather than quantity.

I see this is not a discussion about soundstage and realism of instruments.

Quality of sound??? Realism??? You prefer tubes, and we all know tubes color the sound. I doubt you have ever heard a Nakamichi amp, but you sure act like you know something. Your post with namecalling "head cases" shows me how very little you do know about the subject matter as you make statements that you cannot propperly articulate to bolster your possition. It still takes 4 times as much power in a Forte to get the same level output as a Cornerhorn!

That is directly pointed at your position that 200 watts is 2 much.

It is too much if it has poor realism and you are trying to compensate for poor realism with SPL.

The pro technitions run anywhere from 3 to 5 times the RMS rating of the speaker.

What is the objective? What kind of technicians? PA, Monitor system, recording engineer, audio equipment development?

Further, the Nakamichi is said to have a warmer tube like sound, and solid state is always more accurate in a better amp than similar quallity tube settup. Don't point fingers at others in a realm you seem so innept to argue.

Roger

You lack credibility at the mere number of posts you contribute coupled with the fact you are not serious enough to even fill out your signature or equipment profile so no one knows what you own or listen to.

Gee you found one SS amp manufacturer I never owned; maybe I listenend to one in the 70s but not enough to make an impression.

My street cred going back to the 70s is I was a poor musician. Due to my technical skills being rather sound as noted by my talented musicain firends, they asked me to record them in a studio they subsidized me to build in my parents basment in 1980. I repaired equipment in a very basic sense and built PA systems.

I have nearfield experience with:

-Music Man, Hi Watt, Marshall, Vox and Fender(countless models) guitar amps

-Telecaster, Stratocaster, Les Paul(love the pre 60s), Gretsch Country Gentleman, Gibson ES 335 and dozens of lesser electric guitars

-Hammond B3 and M3 organs with Leslie speakers

- Gibson, Guild, Taylor, Ovation( hate them) and Martin( love them I am a CSNY devotee) accoustic guitars

-Gretsch and Tama were my favorite drums

============

Currently I hear un amplified live orchestras 7-8 times a year. My four children play in my house(in largest number of hours per year):

-french horn (meleophone in marching band season)

-trombone

-drums

- piano

-flute

-bells(xylophone) ; my oldest does a killer version of Sleigh Bells for the holidays

======================

Why is high power SS so fatiguing?

-cymbals never sound real but edgy and biting; a ride cymbal should draw you into the rythym not chase you away

-soundstage smears while the room overdrives and something in the room will add more distortion by vibrating than either amp or speaker will at somewhere over 105 db at one meter in a 15 x 15 room; in addition you cannot talk to your wife or friends without shouting(maybe talking is to be avoided in some circles)

-never heard an SS amp have the detail of attack or the extended realism of decay that a tube amp can provide

-Jitter magnifier, SS is less fatigueing with analog but I personally can listen to no more than 2-3 CDs at a sitting with SS compared to 8-10 CDs with tubes

So pound away on us wimpy amp old guys that are clueless; in your bold font with multiple exclamation points. We do have time to joust with you on occassion.

Waiting up as my twice monthly spot check of my 20 year old sons curfew allows me to be long winded tonight.

[oldtimer]

Why is high power SS so fatiguing?

-cymbals never sound real but edgy and biting; a ride cymbal should draw you into the rythym not chase you away

-soundstage smears while the room overdrives and something in the room will add more distortion by vibrating than either amp or speaker will at somewhere over 105 db at one meter in a 15 x 15 room; in addition you cannot talk to your wife or friends without shouting(maybe talking is to be avoided in some circles)

-never heard an SS amp have the detail of attack or the extended realism of decay that a tube amp can provide

-Jitter magnifier, SS is less fatigueing with analog but I personally can listen to no more than 2-3 CDs at a sitting with SS compared to 8-10 CDs with tubes

I was with you up to a point. As a drummer, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Cymbals sound plenty real, attack and decay. I've heard both tubes and ss on material I know. One reason I bought forte 2's in the first place is the lack of fatigue from the speaker. fatigue from my experience is more speaker related than amp.

What the h are you talking about at 105db in a 15x15 room? Oh, I guess you mean mine. Please bear with me I'm typing as I think. Sure stuff might rattle until you find and stop the rattles. You are right that when cranking to those levels that there is no wife to talk to, duh? It's not like I do that all the time, and when I do the wife is not home.

I've never heard a tube amp that is any more detailed than a good ss amp. There is a difference, but tubes are not neutral to me, they add something. By my definition, that is not real, it's what you want to be real.

Analog is where it's at, of course cd's suck (redbook), the fact or opinion that they don't suck as bad with tubes just confirms my opinion that they are not neutral, they add or otherwise alter the sound in some way that is pleasing to you. Hey that's cool. We all have different needs and tastes.

Additionally, I hate to see someone belittled over a post count. we all had to start at 1 at one point here, to me that is not a legitimate criticism unless the newbie poster is flaming someone without consideration for the subject.

My best friend introduced me to what home audio can provide, he was also not a musician. Just don't try to tell a musician what their own instrument is supposed to sound like, there is no substitute for years of practice and exposure to live sound that a musician gets, no matter how much recording you have done. For every performance there is a multitude of hours of experimentation and rehearsal, plus the individual time each single musician takes to hone their craft.

[twistedcrankcammer]

I used 100 watt receivers for many years in my smallish 15x15 room, albeit with vaulted ceiling and open on one side by maybe five feet. That was plenty for spl levels. Recently went to 200 watts and separates and it sounds better at lower levels and astonishing when cranked. Very clean, crisp, and louder than you would want for an extended time, but definitely better. Decidedly not an aircraft hangar, and decidedly not overkill. Also enough for a larger room if that ever becomes an option.

=======================

My inference is you experiencing quality rather than quantity.

I see this is not a discussion about soundstage and realism of instruments.

Quality of sound??? Realism??? You prefer tubes, and we all know tubes color the sound. I doubt you have ever heard a Nakamichi amp, but you sure act like you know something. Your post with namecalling "head cases" shows me how very little you do know about the subject matter as you make statements that you cannot propperly articulate to bolster your possition. It still takes 4 times as much power in a Forte to get the same level output as a Cornerhorn!

That is directly pointed at your position that 200 watts is 2 much.

It is too much if it has poor realism and you are trying to compensate for poor realism with SPL.

The pro technitions run anywhere from 3 to 5 times the RMS rating of the speaker.

What is the objective? What kind of technicians? PA, Monitor system, recording engineer, audio equipment development?

Further, the Nakamichi is said to have a warmer tube like sound, and solid state is always more accurate in a better amp than similar quallity tube settup. Don't point fingers at others in a realm you seem so innept to argue.

Roger

You lack credibility at the mere number of posts you contribute coupled with the fact you are not serious enough to even fill out your signature or equipment profile so no one knows what you own or listen to.

Gee you found one SS amp manufacturer I never owned; maybe I listenend to one in the 70s but not enough to make an impression.

My street cred going back to the 70s is I was a poor musician. Due to my technical skills being rather sound as noted by my talented musicain firends, they asked me to record them in a studio they subsidized me to build in my parents basment in 1980. I repaired equipment in a very basic sense and built PA systems.

I have nearfield experience with:

-Music Man, Hi Watt, Marshall, Vox and Fender(countless models) guitar amps

-Telecaster, Stratocaster, Les Paul(love the pre 60s), Gretsch Country Gentleman, Gibson ES 335 and dozens of lesser electric guitars

-Hammond B3 and M3 organs with Leslie speakers

- Gibson, Guild, Taylor, Ovation( hate them) and Martin( love them I am a CSNY devotee) accoustic guitars

-Gretsch and Tama were my favorite drums

============

Currently I hear un amplified live orchestras 7-8 times a year. My four children play in my house(in largest number of hours per year):

-french horn (meleophone in marching band season)

-trombone

-drums

- piano

-flute

-bells(xylophone) ; my oldest does a killer version of Sleigh Bells for the holidays

======================

Why is high power SS so fatiguing?

-cymbals never sound real but edgy and biting; a ride cymbal should draw you into the rythym not chase you away

-soundstage smears while the room overdrives and something in the room will add more distortion by vibrating than either amp or speaker will at somewhere over 105 db at one meter in a 15 x 15 room; in addition you cannot talk to your wife or friends without shouting(maybe talking is to be avoided in some circles)

-never heard an SS amp have the detail of attack or the extended realism of decay that a tube amp can provide

-Jitter magnifier, SS is less fatigueing with analog but I personally can listen to no more than 2-3 CDs at a sitting with SS compared to 8-10 CDs with tubes

So pound away on us wimpy amp old guys that are clueless; in your bold font with multiple exclamation points. We do have time to joust with you on occassion.

Waiting up as my twice monthly spot check of my 20 year old sons curfew allows me to be long winded tonight.

No, you were already full of hot air prior to waiting up!!!

You may have more postings, but it seems you must have done alot more posting than listening and learning from others.

You spout off about guitar amps... Stay focussed!!! The discussion is home audio amps.

You spout off about minor repairs and a recording studio in your PARENTS HOUSE!! Stay focused... The discussion is home audio amps.

You run on about going to live performances and the instruments your kids play. Your making me loose focus!!! What does that have to do with home audio amps???

I have heard VOTs = Voice of the Theatre (did not want to confuse you) on both SS and tubes and I have to admit that I was never impressed with the VOTs on SS, but they were enjoyable on tubes. I would equate this to "less fatigueing", but by no means were they more articulate.

I don't care if you have 10 million posts or your name is Jesus Christ, that does not give you the right to start name calling, but it is easy to be brave behind a keyboard.

old timer is correct in my opinion. I owned quartets that I bought new in 1989 (my second set of home speakers ever/ I was 25) I believe the Fortes are the most articulate speakers in the Klipsch line up that I have ever heard.

Tubes may very well make for an easier listening venue, but many would argue the same of Bose as they feel horns are bright, that lack of brightness or edginess has nothing at all to do with how articulate or accurate the sound is.

Start listening to others post instead of spouting off, and you will find that old timer and myself are not the only ones here that feel that a larger SS amp helps the sound at moderate listening levels.

Just as you named off a bunch of guitar amps, I could name off a bunch of non Klipsch speakers, and it still wouldn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

I am still scratching my head to wonder what your kids do has to do with this conversation, should I list my families accomplishments or lack there of to try to stay on track with your wandering mind???

Roger

[B.Althaus]

WOW!!!!....Dinner AND a show!!....I too am a drummer and spent a lot of time playing music through the years..it does give one a good sense of what a 22 in bass drum vs and 18 inch bass drum should sound like or the difference between a fretted and fretless bass. Recording and producing will also give one a geat sense of the instruments sound qualities..perhaps with much less bias( Zildjans are the ONLY cymbals I have ever bought and owned). I love the reproduction qualities of my Forte II's. I think we all agree that they are excellent speakers. While I have never heard them driven with tube gear I am sure that they would sound great. However I just dont think that I am going to go the tube route.

I have spent countless hours listening to the full Orchestra rehearse un amplified as well as amplified, name a rock tour that has come through Louisville in the last 10 years and I have heard countless hours of room ring outs, line checks, sound checks, rehearsals and shows(primarily in mono of course). I toured on with a Broadway show for 18 months. Interestingly enough the biggest advancement in live sound reinforcement is.....wait for it....the trapezoidal cabinet, albeit a different design than PWK's.

But I digress.

Although I am not going to try to get 110db SPL in my living room it is nice to have the headroom agreed. The NAK stuff is nice to be sure and I have been looking for and looking at what I can find, which is not much, those that have it are hanging on to it. I have also been looking at Denon POA 1500's and POA 4400's, as well as keeping my eyes out for a McIntosh 2105 / 2125 / 2155 / 2205......just so darn pricey and still looking at some vintage Sansui BA / CA stuff.

I greatly appreciate everyones input and think that for now I will lay low and keep my eyes peeled.

[twistedcrankcammer]

WOW!!!!....Dinner AND a show!!....I too am a drummer and spent a lot of time playing music through the years..it does give one a good sense of what a 22 in bass drum vs and 18 inch bass drum should sound like or the difference between a fretted and fretless bass. Recording and producing will also give one a geat sense of the instruments sound qualities..perhaps with much less bias( Zildjans are the ONLY cymbals I have ever bought and owned). I love the reproduction qualities of my Forte II's. I think we all agree that they are excellent speakers. While I have never heard them driven with tube gear I am sure that they would sound great. However I just dont think that I am going to go the tube route.

I have spent countless hours listening to the full Orchestra rehearse un amplified as well as amplified, name a rock tour that has come through Louisville in the last 10 years and I have heard countless hours of room ring outs, line checks, sound checks, rehearsals and shows(primarily in mono of course). I toured on with a Broadway show for 18 months. Interestingly enough the biggest advancement in live sound reinforcement is.....wait for it....the trapezoidal cabinet, albeit a different design than PWK's.

But I digress.

Although I am not going to try to get 110db SPL in my living room it is nice to have the headroom agreed. The NAK stuff is nice to be sure and I have been looking for and looking at what I can find, which is not much, those that have it are hanging on to it. I have also been looking at Denon POA 1500's and POA 4400's, as well as keeping my eyes out for a McIntosh 2105 / 2125 / 2155 / 2205......just so darn pricey and still looking at some vintage Sansui BA / CA stuff.

I greatly appreciate everyones input and think that for now I will lay low and keep my eyes peeled.

B. Althaus,

The McI gear will always hold it's value and is also a safe bet if you can swing it. It is ultimately your descission. I have a buddy that has $22,000 in his Harley, that couldn't see the expenditure on his gear, and I asked him how many hours do you spend on your bike a year (we live in Ohio) and how many hours do you spend listening to music or watching movies. Some people don't understand paying for a feather down tick or comforter and 500 or 1200 count sheet set, or even a high quality mattress set, but how many hours of or lives are spent in bed?? Good luck in your search, and I will try to post in the forum if I see a PA-7 or PA-7II for you.

Roger

[fenderbender]

B.Althaus:

I had an Mc 2505 50wpc that would drive a pair of heresy II's to ear splitting volume in a smaller room, the MC 250 is the exact amp with no meters and can usually be found for $500-700.. More power than you should need with most klipsch speakers

as far as Sansui...you would have great luck with their integrated' The Au 7900 Au 9900 and Au 11000 are all fantastic high quality "highly underrated" amps and would suggest one of those in place of the BA/CA combo.....plus it's only one unit to service...you can separate the pre and the main and use either ...

[Hifi jim]

I agree with fenderbender as I too use a 2505, and it is more than sufficient with my 94db kg4's. I've had a 2105 with twice the power, but I prefer the sound of the 2505. Perhaps the 2505 was closer to spec than the 2105 was at the time. But it just seems a better match to the speakers, and sending the music through half as many output transistors is always a good thing. The 2505's can usually be found in the $500-600 range and are a great investment that will continue to appreciate in value. None on Audiogon or eBay at the moment, but be patient. I bought my 2505 for $400 almost ten years ago and it steadily increases in value over the years. Should you not like the amp (not likely), you can always sell a Mac fast on eBay or Audiogon and recoup your money. Of all the gear I've sold, Macs always sell the fastest and generate the most interest. Check your local craigslist too. Good luck!

[twistedcrankcammer]

B. Althaus,

Here you go!!

Roger[Y][]

out

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Back to list of itemsListed in category: Consumer Electronics > Home Audio > Amplifiers > Power Amplifiers > 2-Channel

Nakamichi PA-7 PA-7A PA-7E Statis power amp Threshold

Item number: 290247510570

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Current bid:US $42.99 Reserve not met Your maximum bid:US $ Place Bid > (Enter US $43.99 or more) End time:Jul-27-08 19:14:22 PDT (6 days 3 hours)Shipping costs:

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Description Item Specifics - Amplifiers and Preamps Condition:

Used

Channels :

2

Amplifier Type :

Power Amplifiers

Nakamichi PA-7 Statis power amplifier
Up for auction is a Nakamichi PA-7 Statis power amplifier. I believe most bidders would also know what the PA-7 power amplifier and its merits are.

Why am I selling it? Because I do not need two PA-7's whilst they are great for bi-amping but I hardly do that. I am keeping one for sure; so while one of the picture shows the 2 units I have, this auction is only for one PA-7. Pictures depicted is of the one auctioned. I am pretty much a tube aficionado and prefer tube amps most of the time. I have had a lot of solid state amps (including a Threshold S/500 Mk II) but have only retained a McIntosh and the Nak PA-7's. I personally found the Threshold a little too sterile and analytical for my taste. The power amplifier is rated at 200wpc into 8 ohms. I am not sure if it is suitable for electrostatics. Nakamichi licensed (Nelson Pass now of Pass Labs) Threshold's Statis technology and used that technology on PA-7.

There are some cosmetic imperfections on the amp and I will mention them. Some of heat sinks have some nicks on them. I have used a black marker to touch them up but at specific angles, they are still visible. A skilful thin coat of paint might work better but I'll leave it up to you. From a listening position, none of the flaws are really visible. The top of the right rack handle has a someone driver's license inscribed (but very faintly). None of the heat sinks are bent. It is also important that the amp, since it's a variant of a class A amp (Threshold's sliding class A), it tends to run more on the warm side. Be sure to leave ample ventilation for the amplifier. A fan blowing on it would be great, but make sure you do not put in on the rug without it sitting on a solid slab of something. And it is not inadvisable to house them in a cabinet as well. Unit is in excellent electrical condition. Comes with the original owner's manual (some writing on the manual).

Lastly, this is a heavy amplifier. Packaging will be done right, cost of shipping may be a little on the high side but the intent is to get the amp to you the way it leaves my home. Please see my other auctions for more Nakamichi-related products.

00147

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Item title: Nakamichi PA-7 PA-7A PA-7E Statis power amp Threshold

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