C-7 vs. RC-7?

[HornEd]

Congrats, Speedbump! Do those three spinning smileys suggest the happiness a li'l 'bump makes in your life... or are their six ears in the making?

It's been thirty years since little feet were directed toward the glowing fascination of my old Macintosh/K-horn based stereo HiFi rig. While I would get some up-to-date info on cranking up your Klipsches in the presence of tiny developing ears... but I believe that good sounds make better 'bumps... especially when they get the opportunity of an "inside" education.

When my son was forming his talking skills, in deference to his being raised in a quality but eclectic sound environment, he was asked what kind of music he preferred. He replied that he liked it all... but that he liked "loud and soft" music best. We were all a bit confused... and he was hard pressed to explain any further given his then limited language skills. It turns out that he preferred "classical" music. And that is primarily what we played while he experienced the magic womb excursion. He has perfect pitch, was in marching and jazz bands in his school years and still plays several instruments... and has audiophile ears.

Can't say the early music was the cause of it all... but I don't think it hurt. The reason we opted for more classical music early on was that music is math and classical music follows more interesting math patterns for developing minds. My background in the psychology of environmental structuring suggests that such orderly stimulation creates and/or strengthens neural pathways that helps 'bumps grow into happier folk.

In any event, triple congratulations all around... HornEd

PS: Since Jurassic Park III declares a new king, will you be laying T-Rex aside?

This message has been edited by HornEd on 01-30-2002 at 06:27 AM

[LyleS]

Hi,

Just a quick note to mention an oft forgotten Klipsch Product.

The THX Home Cinema Speakers (Circa 1994 - 1997)

These Speakers come with Completely Matched Front Speakers: KT-LCR, They do have the Dipole Surrounds, but in today's world, perhaps getting a total of 6 LCR's for a 6.1 setup would be best.

Pair them up with a really good sub, and sit back and enjoy.

THere is one minor thing, The center channel was designed to be placed Vertically. I use some old foam mouse pads to tilt mine down a bit toward the listening position, and for day to day watching of satellite TV, just lay it over on it's side on the RPTV.

I've been tweaking my La Scala's as mains, and have moved 2 of the LCR's to be direct radiating rears in my 5.1 setup. The spouse is going to be out of town this weekend, so I think I'll pull the Dipole KT-DS out of the bedroom system, hook them up as rears, and do some A B comparisons of the THX setup vs the La Scala's as mains. Nice for me that the La Scala's will make perfect speaker stands for the THX fronts sitting vertically, (Again with some nice foamy mouse pads for vibration isolation.)

I think that I may get the best of both worlds by using the THX setup for movies, and the La Scala's for music.

I'm curious to hear the THX speakers powered by my Denon POA-2800 (200W/C Dual Mono Design) amp.

Later,

Lyle.

HornEd, good to see you back , hope you are feeling better soon.

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Gear: Klipsch La Scala ;THX home cinema: KT-LCR, KT-SW15

Onkyo Integra DTR-7 THX

Denon POA-2800 Amplifier

Panasonic RP91 DVD

NAD 7140 Stereo receiver (Pre Only with Denon Amp)

[onemike]

Well, HornEd is it? You seem to have been missed by a lot of people in the "Klipsch family". I guess you´ve been helping the members of the forum in the past and surely will continue to do so in the near future. So you claim to be part Swedish, doesn´t it feel great to finally announce to the world which the beautiful country is that you have to thank for your existence

I myself can almost claim to be an american citizen. My parents lived in L.A for 20 years and my older sister was born there but unfortionately they moved back here just 2 years before I was born. Still I have cousins and aunts in both California and Florida and I also went to school in Orange County for a year. My many trips to these areas make me almost feel like one of you guys, i´m blessed right?

So, as I have the KLF 20´s as mains I guess I would be better of with a C-7 and I guess e-bay is the place to get one, but I don´t know what it would cost to ship it over here, will check it out though. Will maybe also get one for rear surround as many on this forum prefer that instead of getting a pair of additional S6´s.

I asked the main distributor here in Sweden about the S6´s but they said they don´t market them anymore. He instead pointed toward the new RS-7´s but the price almost blew me away, $1300 for the pair. So, it´s not easy to be a Klipsch fan over here, it empties your wallet pretty fast.

Anyway, see you in the future and I didn´t mind you using my thread, so you can sleep well tonight. Mike!

[Seb]

Oh man!

Now I have to spend twic as much as I thought I'd have to! Damn you HornEd, damn you!

In any case, I will wait for the results of the comparison between phantom and main as center. Should be interesting, since I am always the one in the sweet spot and nobody else cares, I could just get two RF-7s and wait until my cash level is back to a normal state, then put down the dough to get another pair.

I should stop trying to save money. I will HAVE to buy those monsters, whatever I do, or so it seems.

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'cuz not a lot of people have ever said

"Pump up the treble!"

[dougdrake2]

Hmm Ed - Your comments about rebuilding the motor board have me wondering about the advisability of doing that on a Forte to create a center channel speaker that is "wide" rather than "tall." My center Forte is now tall, inverted over my TV set. Your RF-7 idea worked well, I'm guessing, because you have two woofers so you can mount one on either end of the motorboard (if I read your directions correctly). My Forte has just one woofer, so it would have to be placed to one end of the motorboard. Wonder how this would affect the sound?

Doug

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My System

[forresthump]

Hi Ed, Welcome Back. Now talk some sense into Seb. The ears has been bashing our KLF-30 like they sound like B-52s and says you need high powered external Amps for them As he says for everything including the RF-7.

Seb, you could get 4 or 5 KLF now for the price of 1 pair of RF-7. And your getting something better on the highs than sony anyway.

Though Ed I dont know on this big speaker for center thing if you cut it at 80hz anyway.

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go forth & hump the world

[HornEd]

Wow, you guys are ganging up on me! Well, here goes...

Seb, your damning came a little late... my favorite ex-wife beat you to it. But you pushed for the bottom line. I hope to do the test this evening but it may not be for a day or two. Busy schedule. I think you can take this thing in steps. Buy the most important piece first... and add the rest as the fates allow. If RF-7's your ear bag, than bag three, count 'em, three RF-7's. A smooth talking fellow like yourself ought to get a discount on three if you will be an example of how they can sell more RF-7's. So, its Left Main Center Main Right Main and that guy in your sweetspot will love you for it!

you have enough gear to limp through a monetary build-up to fill out your dream system bit by bit. Nothing is more important than the three mains... not a receiver... it can't get to your ear if you don't have the timbre mated main-power dynamics! More about it after the test.

DougDrake2 (with fond memories of the original) I cannot stress enough how important taking advantage of a discrete center channel has become. Of course, as you gleaned from the brief instructions, factors in building a motor board design for a custom center speaker include attempting to keep the sound "on axis" and thus woofers on either side of the stacked exponential horn and horn tweeter. Frankly, one of my concerns was having two twelve inch woofers spread so wide for a center channel. I thought it may lose some audio placement vis-a-vie the screen. I mean the span outer edge to outer edge of the woofers is wider than most TV screens. My concerns were for naught. The center speaker array links as well or better than it does with the KLF-C7. I suspect that a motor board could be built for a Forte with the woofer off set just enough to squeeze the exponential horn fairly close to the midline. Any boom big enough to influence the woofer will likely influence a right or left main as well... I think you will be fine. It is pretty inexpensive to carve up a new motor board and test it out... just keep the old motor board intact in the case that Dame Fortune decides not to be a Lady.

Hey Forresthump glad to see your still filling Little Rock's Big Role in Klipschology. I am glad there still are a few of us keeping up the value of the world of discontinued Klipsch gems. Keeping up resale values contributes to the success image deservedly carved out over the last half century or so. Seb's a good guy and, your right, we have to help him over this RC7 speedbump on his road to understanding. I will give the ears this, from time to time, having six KLF-30's in the room can get uncomfortable on some music... but that is a very rare occasion and is as easy to handle as turning the volume down for a bit. To me, there is a lot more to music than falling on the alter of polished transients. KLF-30's have a rugged allure that makes the music come alive with power and grace.

The reason for the big speaker in the center that is cut at 80Hz is everything over 80Hz (and that's a HUMP, Forrest!) is more than half the sound coming from a 5.1 program source! Clearly, as you dip below 80Hz you are making longer and longer waves... and multiple longer waves from various sources become big bass killers lurking in an acoustic nightmare. Freeing your big woofer from low bass duty means that it gains significant quickness and precision by concentrating on the shorter waves... and that means a more musical rig overall.

Well, as they say in West Texas, I got a few "wooly booggers" to sort out between here and sundown. HornEd

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"Where Klipsch Legends Cavort in a Six Way!"

FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE:

KLF 30 Center, KLF 30 Mains, SB-2 Front Effects

BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE:

KLF 30 L&R Side/Surrounds, KLF 30 Rear Effects

LARGE MOUTH BASS:

Twin SVS CS-Ultra subs, Samson Megawatt Amp

KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS:

Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808

and such... Tweakin' On!

Music System: vintage Cornwall based

Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome: On the road testing...

This message has been edited by HornEd on 01-30-2002 at 05:49 PM

[Seb]

forrest,

you are right, my idea diverged from KLF-20s or 30s to the Ref series. it wasn't only because of TheEars, however. One big factor was that basically everybody I talked to about them, and a lot of people I wrote to about them, told me they were quite a bit brighter than the Ref series. Now, I like the Klipsch sound (it's aLIVE!), but since I'm still young (20), the high frequencies have to be relatively tame in order not to make my ears bleed. Add to this the fact that I will be using the speakers with my Sony receiver (not known for its butta smooth sound), and you have a poor grinding-teeth Seb.

now, this would count for naught if I was able to audition them and hear for myself, but unfortunately it's very hard to find a dealer that still carries the beasts here in Montréal, as I understand they were discountinued, and the Ref series is sooo much more marketable (can't beat those copper-colored woofers!) and that's notwithstanding the fact that I'd probably have a good deal of difficulty getting them from my work, as they are very rare nowadays. maybe direct from Klipsch...

I don't know how old you are, but I know I can hear high frequencies better and louder than most people, and certainly than HornEd and his mother, with all due respect. A times, even my present hornless rig seems too bright to me, although I believe it's more related to the messy and uncontrolled(as opposed to piercing) high freqs. sucks to have Sony speakers. weird, though, because I like them much better than the seemingly higher-quality JBL I use in the rear, with their titanium tweeter. seems like the midrange is way too forward compared to my Sonys.

on another note, listened to Hotel California and cranked up the volume yesterday... didn't know you could ACTUALLY have shivers go down your spine from music. I wonder what that'd sound like on some nice Klipsch!

This message has been edited by Seb on 01-30-2002 at 07:56 PM

[TheEAR]

HornEd,

I see Forrest is up to his usual BLAME THEEAR story.Well I dont dislike KLF30's at all.All the contrary,KLF series have many good aspects.Realistic price and they make superb home theater speakers.Also live rock or electric blues sounds great on them.

I did listen at my local Klipsch dealer to the mighty KLF30's you have.I was quite impressed by the realsim of the sound.Driven by a potent power amp these will ask to pump the volume up and keep beggin for more.

I just found the KLF30 a touch too big(remember my Klipsch HT room is 14 x 10' !!! That is a small room).

Then came the RF-7,a dream for a Klipsch fanatic like me.So what did I do,I ordered a pair(the first EVER sold in Montreal I think ).Now the RF-7 while not small or satelite like are just large but not huge.

And the sound is awesome,the 1.75" compresstion tweeter/upper mid driver has some serious power and can take a few watts with no complaints.The twin 10" drivers are fast and the bass will have a snap I did not find in the KLF30's.

And with 250W times five from my ATI 2505 I have all the juice the RF-7's may ever want on tap.The sound is dynamic,huge and its power that does not end.

Damn I tell you HornEd these RF-7's have solid and defined bass too.Sure my four Sunfire subs do help.The thing is the RF-7's can make many think subs are working when they are OFF!The secret is a big bold power amp,no EQ needed.

At times I find the R series tad bright,its normal when you hit close to 120dB anything will irritate your hearing.And the titanium tweeter membranes are not edgy or bright like some claim.If the recording is bright the Klipsch will tear your ears,if the recording is well made and the EQ ws not abused in the studio the Klipsch are smooth as silk.

I think KLF and R series Klipschers can coexist very well.Both the KLF and R series are great value for anyone who knows realistic sound and knows what B0$e is all about.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Seb]

what???

the KLFs are BIGGER than the RF-7s??

alright, I changed my mind again!

------------------

'cuz not a lot of people have ever said

"Pump up the treble!"

[HornEd]

Thanks for your update, Ear(s)... it's nice to get your unvarnished point of view. Your four Sunfires bring back memories of the three 12" subs I used for the rear array... they each had a KLF-10 atop. The front array had two 15" subs on either side of the KLF-30 mains.... and I had a KLF-C7 on top. It took a lot of tweaking to avoid being swamped by standing waves! The six KLF-30's on small and the pair of SVS Ultimas looming large made a much better system. I understand your situation and I am indeed fortunate to have a much larger room for my home theater. Essentially, I was interested in maximizing the potential for directional sound while minimizing the creation of standing waves that can be so destructive to source material.

Yes, Seb the KLF-30's have two 12" woofers and probably twice the internal volume of the RF7's. The big bad boys easily pump out more SPL's and reveal the flaws in recordings that tend to create the harshness you hear about.... but they are neither as forgiving nor do they have the level of audiophile delicacy and precision of the RF-7's. I think that might be what is now theears was trying to impart to us.

As I have said before on this forum, I built this system for the primary benefit of stimulating my 94 year-old mother. Although her hearing is still sharper than anticipated, older ears tend to lose the audiophile quality they may have had in their youth. To that end, I think the KLF-30's is the better choice for ears that are past their prime. Klipsch sales people seem to think that everyone who buys KLF-30's must be a rocker... because these things can pump out raw sound like few others in their price range.

I have been told that the engineers who designed the KLF-30's in the Klipsch tradition have moved on... so they were not available to advise me on modifications to build a KLF-30 center motor board. I have a lot of respect for Klipsch engineering starting with Paul, himself, and continuing right up to this moment. I mean, how bad can the Klipsch Culture be if they let us have a BBS as free and easy as this one. Acoustic dynamics are such a complex set of layered interactions... with perhaps a touch of alchemy. Hmmm, that's were they dug up the copper-tone cone!

Check out the t-man challenge thread in the next day or so if you would like to get some additional insights into KLF-30's and the likely path of multi-channel music and movies in the foreseeable future.

I am glad to see this board moving back to good humor and enough diplomacy so that we can all be what we can grow to be. Having a board where we can learn and share helps stamp out the ignorance that has fattened the Bose bottom line. Thanks for your update, Ear(s)... it's nice to get your unvarnished point of view. Your four Sunfires bring back memories of the three 12" subs I used for the rear array... they each had a KLF-10 atop. The front array had two 15" subs on either side of the KLF-30 mains.... and I had a KLF-C7 on top. It took a lot of tweaking to avoid being swamped by standing waves! The six KLF-30's on small and the pair of SVS Ultimas looming large made a much better system. I understand your situation and I am indeed fortunate to have a much larger room for my home theater. Essentially, I was interested in maximizing the potential for directional sound while minimizing the creation of long waves that can be so destructive to source material.

Yes, Seb the KLF-30's have two 12" woofers and probably twice the internal volume of the RF7's. The big bad boys easily pump out more SPL's and reveal the flaws in recordings that tend to create the harshness you hear about.... but they are neither as forgiving nor do they have the level of audiophile delicacy and precision of the RF-7's. I think that might be what is now theears was trying to impart to us.

As I have said before on this forum, I built this system for the primary benefit of stimulating my 94 year-old mother. Although her hearing is still sharper than anticipated, older ears tend to lose the audiophile quality they may have had in their youth. To that end, I think the KLF-30's is the better choice for ears that are past their prime. Klipsch sales people seem to think that everyone who buys KLF-30's must be a rocker... because these things can pump out raw sound like few others in their price range.

I have been told that the engineers who designed the KLF-30's in the Klipsch tradition have moved on... so they were not available to advise me on modifications to build a KLF-30 center motor board. I have a lot of respect for Klipsch engineering starting with Paul, himself, and continuing right up to this moment. I mean, how bad can the Klipsch Culture be if they let us have a BBS as free and easy as this one. Acoustic dynamics are such a complex set of layered interactions... with perhaps a touch of alchemy. Hmmm, that's were they dug up the copper-tone cone!

Check out the t-man challenge thread in the next day or so if you would like to get some additional insights into KLF-30's and the likely path of multi-channel music and movies in the foreseeable future.

I am glad to see this board moving back to good humor and enough diplomacy so that we can all be what we can grow to be. Having a board where we can learn and share helps stamp out the ignorance that has fattened the Bose bottom line.

Let's hope all the new construction in Hope and Indy will leave a little room for new products for throwbacks to us overdue Legend collectors. HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 01-31-2002 at 05:33 PM

[avman]

welcome back hornEd!!!gotta rsw-15 should hit the door tomorrow, i'm setting the xover on the sony 777ES at 40 Hz l,r; and 60-70 Hz for c-7 and ksps-6 surrounds. gotta few new 'goodies' for the ht room (renovation now 'complete') and a superbowl party. best wishes, glad to have you back! avman.

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1-pair klf 30's

c-7 center

ksps-6 surrounds

RSW-15 on the way!!

sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1

sony playstation 2

sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer

dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder

sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv

sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen

Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture

panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner

monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire

KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz!

[HornEd]

Hey, Avman... I am looking forward to your take on your new RSW15 sub. I have yet to hear it but they can be a little slow putting out Klipsch product in this neck of the woods.

I replied to T-man's challenge/request for my help on the Home Theater section. It's a lot of words, but I would appreciate your opinion. Thanks.

Here's an appreciative standing wave that your RSW15 missed HornEd