Moody Blues days of Future Passed

[jcmusic]

Does any one here know if ampex made this album at 7.5 ips on R2R tape in stereo, or was it just made in quad? If quad only how will a quad tape sound on a stereo deck?

Jay

[picky]

Jay: I can't speak to the Ampeg availability of the album mentioned, but if you try to play a quad tape on a typical, 2-channel, quarter-track machine, you will hear only two of the four channels at a time, thereby omitting half of the sonic information. When you play the opposite side of the tape, you will then hear the other two channels only, but they well sound backwards. Thisis becasue all 4 tracks are recorded in one direction. If you happen to have a 2-channel, half-track machine, I'm not positive what to expect. You may actually hear all 4 channels split into stereo, but I've never tried that.

If you are serious about listening to quad R2R tapes, there are usually lots of affordable 4-track machines listed on eBay and Craig's list. I own a Teac A-3340S; an excellent machine and about $1,600 when I got it new back in 1976. I have seen them listed in the past year from under $200 to about $400. In good condition they are certainly worth that much. They are tall, heavy machines so be prepared for a hefty shipping charge if you buy one on line. -Glenn

A Teac A-3340S similar to mine: (Note: an A-3340 will also work, it simply does not have the Simul-Sync feature for synchronized dubbing)

[jcmusic]

picky thanks for replying, I do have a half track deck as well as a 4 track. I am just wondering how a quad tape will sound on a stereo deck?

Jay

[russ69]

An interesting bit of history: The Days of Future Past album was intended to use stereo recording and shows it's benefits. I understand that the BBC had some extra money to use for the promotion of stereo recording. They tried a lot of experimental things including using the rock band "The Moody Blues" and suggested using some classical musicians as well. Justin Hayward/John Lodge, quickly wrote and added all the extra elements. The album was a flop when released and was only played on a few underground FM stations, a few years later it got good play on mass radio stations and that's when most people became aware of the Moody Blues.

Thanx, Russ

[Marvel]

Jay,

You will need to mix the front left with rear left and front right with rear right. If the levels are matched, it should sound ok, unless there are some funky phase issue.

Bruce

[WMcD]

It is interesting to hear about any interest in this album. A favorite of mine in college days. Now I have a MFSL CD which, to my sonic memory is about the same as the vinyl. One issue I have is that the rock sections seem a little bit too loud and don't segue to classical as well as they could.

I looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moody_Blues which in turn has a link to information on the album.

My guess is that any quad or surround is an afterthought and not worth pursuing.

FWIIW, DoFP was one of the great prog rock albums of the era, standing as as a third to Sgt. Pepper and Tommy. Pretty heady company. (ahem)

Wm McD

[picky]

Gil: I agree with your mention of the poor sonic segues on this album between the rock and classical sections. I've always been amazed at how they were able to make that little Mellowtron with it sampled tape loops sound just like a string orchestra! Of course they eventually used real strings. I was "mad" about the Moodies while I was an art student in high school in the late 1960's. I had their albums on 8-track back then and had to buy several copies to replace the copies I had worn-out from listening to them constantly. I now have copies of their albums in vinyl and on CDs.

Not to steal your thread, canyonman, but: I remember some pretty lean times when I was 16 years old (I am soon to be 57) when the Moodies were first a big deal. I earned $1.25 an hour pumping gas at the corner Shell station. So I was "roughing it" hi-fi-wise. At a drug store, of all places, my dad had bought a really nice (for then) Panasonic AM/FM receiver with an integrated 8-track player for our den on the main floor of our house. It came with a pair of really whimpy, 2-way speakers. My bedroom was upstairs in a converted attic. I wanted to be able to listen to music up there. So I went to an electronics hobby (chain) store called Olson Electronics and I bought a pair of Castle Bell 8" speakers (made in England) with what they called "whizzer cones" in the middle. I made two particle board and pine, sealed cabinets, which I stained in walnut and covered with beige grille cloths. I placed them in my room upstairs. Another trip to Olson and I came home with two DPDT panel switches, 4-RCA jacks, 6 RCA plugs, solder, a small handy box and 100 feet of 18 guage speaker wire. I made an outboard speaker switching box to accomidate the two speakers dad had in the den and then ran the wiring into a closet, across the basement and up the cold air return to my room in the attic to power my new remote pair of speakers. It immediately became apparent that I needed to add a stereo level pad to control the volume differential between the two rooms.Luckily, I also knew enough then to realize the need to follow polarities. But I threw balancing the impedances out the window. LOL It worked great and I was able to shut off the den speakers and blast away upstairs. Soon after, I added my own mood lights to my room by building a box and stapling a bunch of old, blinking, colored Christmas lights in various orientations in the box's opening and then gluing a piece of clear, prismatic panel for a suspended ceiling over the opening. The blinking lights appeared as colored "square rings" inside. GROOVY, BABY! [H] A year later, someone began marketing the things and called them "color organs". Hmmm.....opportunity missed, me thinks? Those Castle Bells actually sounded good to me.....back then. Great music and fond memories! -Glenn

The Mellotron:

[WS65711]

........................................... So I went to a local electronics hobby (chain) store called Olson Electronics ..................................:

Olson Electronics wasn't a local chain. We had one all the way down here in Metairie (New Orleans) on Airline Hwy. Must have been about 30 years ago.

[picky]

Olson Electronics wasn't a local chain. We had one all the way down here in Metairie (New Orleans) on Airline Hwy. Must have been about 30 years ago.

Your are absolutely correct. I miswrote what I'd meant to say. What I should have written is: "...I went to a local store that was part of a national chain....". Sorry for my error but good call. -Glenn

[Marvel]

I've always been amazed at how they were able to make that little Mellowtron with it sampled tape loops sound just like a string orchestra! Of course they eventually used real strings.

They weren't sampled tape loops... they were tapes of the real thing. That's why they sounded so good. They also weren't a continuous loop of tape, so would only play a few seconds and then have to rewind. It made them rather finicky to maintain.

I saw the Moody Blues live at Aaron Russo's Kinetic Playground in Chicago in the late '60s. It was a great performance place, and not like the current Kinetic Playground in Chi Town.

Bruce

[picky]

I've always been amazed at how they were able to make that little Mellowtron with it sampled tape loops sound just like a string orchestra! Of course they eventually used real strings.

They weren't sampled tape loops... they were tapes of the real thing. That's why they sounded so good. They also weren't a continuous loop of tape, so would only play a few seconds and then have to rewind. It made them rather finicky to maintain.

Bruce

Bruce: I could be mistaken, but it was my impression, that is exactly what "sampled" means: Minute recordings of the real thing, only in the case of the Mellotron, the samples are analogous and on tape instead of digital chips. I further understood that the Mellotron samples could be recorded of just about anything that makes a sound that was capable of being recorded (including the human voice). Can you confirm this, please? I did not know the tapes weren’t looped. That would probably be a real "bear" to deal with! Thanks for the tips. -Glenn

PS: Although not an irrefutable source, Wikipedia claims the Mellotron to be a "sample-playback device" similar to its predecessor, the "Chamberlin" (which the Moody's used on their album, "Seventh Sojourn").. It goes on to say the tapes are linear as you said and have a playing time of approximately 8 seconds. Wow! What a pain! It just goes to show you how patient and creative these early, electronic musicians had to be!

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellotron

Illustration of a depressed Mellotron key (1), which engages the tape head (2 & 6) and the pinch roller (3) with the tape (4):

[Marvel]

I guess calling them samples would still be correct, even if analogue. Can you imagine the techinical nightmare of keeping one of those working?

I wasn't meaning to rag on ya. It's amazing what some of the early hardware did.

Bruce

[picky]

Bruce: No problem, man. I didn't consider it "ragging". We're simply having a good dicussion and hopefully all learning from it. Yes, these devices are incredibly complicated and fragile. The write-ups explain just how tough they were to keep aligned on the road. Many bands carried two of them "just in case". On the dual keyboard models, apparently the left keyboard contained all factory-set, rhythm track sounds of various styles while the right keyboard contained lead intrument sounds such as strings, flutes and brass. The small units such as the M400 had removeable tape frames which facilitated a quick swap-out to a different sound.

I still own a somewhat similar device (in technology, any way) that the Moody Blues (and Pink Floyd) also used: A Roland RE-301 Chorus Echo. I purchased it new back in 1978 while playing sax and doing sound in a band working the local Detroit-area bar circuit. It is similar to the Mellotron because it's active device is a recording tape loop that has a record head and 4 or 5 different playback heads which provide discrete repeats of the recorded sound, thereby resulting in an "echo". An on-board spring reverb was blended-in to add a sort of "ambiance" to the sound id desired. In it's era, the chorus echo was one of the best, portable echo devices going. At that time, digital delays were just beginnning to come out. They were quite poor and I can remember some early units made by companies such as Eventide, Lexicon and Dbx which started around $3,000 or $4,000 dollars and all they did was provide you with a simple, discrete repeater, albeit a very poor one at that. Digital reverbs weren't perfected yet due to the high cost of memory chips. With that said, the Roland Chorus Echo (also available in lesser models such as the RE-201 Space Echo), with all of it's complex capabilities, was a true bargain at $750! It still runs perfectly and I even have a brand new tape for it if needed (they are still available). According to what I've read, some of today's bands still use them because of their warm sound and the fact that you get a lot of echo and different effects from the used devices at a very modest cost. -Glenn

An RE-301 similar to mine (click on image for a larger view). The tape loop chamber and head assembly are visible beneath its raised top:

[picky]

A great shot of a Roland RE-201 Space Echo tape loop chamber and head assembly: (Click on image for a much larger view)