ShapeShifter Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 mobile/jazman, Thought I'd let you know that I've completed the rolling of tubes for the Eico HF-81. It now has NOS Mullard EZ81's, CV4003 Mullard Box Plates (12AU7's), CV4004 Mullard Box Plates (12AX7's), Amperex Bugle Boy 7189 (EL84's). There's subtle improvements to the low region, with much improved gains in the MF/HF region. I would describe the music as having a presence of airiness & spaciousness, more detail can be heard in the mid and high frequency areas and vocals are extremely clearer. Also received and installed the HFT-90 Tuner, via the multiplex connection, it's a very nice little unit, in great condition and I'm really pleased with its FM performance and sound. It has some Mullards along with one Sylvania and RCA. Don't see any need to change these as the FM sound is really good. jazman, I selected a Matched Pair mid-60's Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's for the New Tube CD. Decided not to go with Richardson Electronics after finding out that they bought the frights to the Amperex Bugle Boy name and they're actually re-labeling other brand tubes (I know the EL-84's are Chinese made) with the Bugle Boy logo's. I'm not saying the tubes are inferior, but their non-disclosure caused me concern so I bought elsewhere. I've not been here much lately, because I have been enjoying both Eico's and really having fun sampling some of my older records and CD's. The next quest will be determining which caps and/or resistors to replace, and what brand to use. Some of the terms used and where the components are located are confusing, such as signal caps, power supply caps, coupling caps and so forth. Also determining which brand will better benefit the amp sound wise. I envision a lot of the selection process has to do with user preference though. I do prefer good clear mid and high sounds. Anyway I'm searching and reading regarding parts for upgrade of the amp. Mobile's site has been very helpful, the diagrams have shown me where a number of the components are located. I hope to find someone locally that I can pay to assist me doing the upgrades myself, once I determine exactly which items to replace/upgrade. Ironically, the damn thing is performing super with it original components. Guess that says a lot about the quality of components used in some of these old units! Wonder if this one was assembled by its original owner? Oh well it's still working! Thanks again for both your help. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Staring through that Beach Cam is almost as Exciting as these Forums. It's nice and sunny up here today. But It ain't 75 degrees! 50 degrees here. Pretty damn warm for these parts at this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 So what is a decent price to pay for an HFT-90 in good working conditon? ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connects DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Please remember now, the EICO HFT-90 is a mono tuner. It also can come your way in funky condition. But when right, it really does well, especailly when mated with the EICO. I will say this, I dont quite like it as much hooked up to my other gear, especially the Cornwall and the Cary-Moondogs. IT does better on my second system to be honest. Still, you can get these things for NOTHING; I have seen them go for $20-30 for a good one...and as much as $70 for one with all Mullard/EICO tubes. Indeed, I just saw one go for $32 with ALL Mullard. They are very plentiful. If you want stereo, there is always the Multiplex tube unit for stereo. I dont think it sounds as good with it though. VERY good for public radio and late night jazz. MUSICAL is the key word. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 The reason I asked about price, I saw one at a local hi-fi shop today for $50. I don't know what tubes it had in it but it looked to be in pretty fair condition without close inspection. I thought that was a pretty high price, but if anyone is interested I could take a closer look. This dealer is pretty hard to haggle with though, they act like they are doing you a favor by being there. ------------------ This message has been edited by edster00 on 02-20-2002 at 08:40 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Just what the Hell is the difference between all these 6DJ8 equilevent Tubes? I know that the 6DJ8 has been used in Phono amps forever and the more average grade ones are not really too thrilling in linearity. But the are Tough. Okay, now we have equilevent Tubes for 6DJ8, 7308's, EC88's(Mullard?), 6922's, and the Amperex Bugle Boy stuff. (Correct me if any of these are not equilevent.) I can understand that the Higher Quality Tube Brands have more than likely superior materials used in construction. But what I don't understand is, are all the Parameters on these Tube's the same? Do they have differing voltages/currents on the plates, grids and anodes?(filament) The reason I ask is, I have a Bob carver 490T 'Vacuum Reference' CD player. (OOOOOOHHHHH!) A real Gem this one, 7 Op amps and 1 IC before the Tube circuit, with $12.00 Yugoslavian 6DJ8 tubes. Now I just like to play around with CD players and have been messing with this unit for a year now. Now I am replacing the Op amps to BB 2134's and AD OP275's. And some Capacitor replacement. But I have been warned not to use any other Tube in the unit other than the stock cheap Yugo Tubes. Seems like it would help. I don't get it, Why? Maybe I'll just take a chance and try it eventually. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Garrett Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Just a note on your Amperex tubes. I have some of the Orange Globe and yours is an ECC88, which is European equivalent to the 6DJ8 (GA top line, C is probably revision 3) and have the steel pins as opposed to the gold pins found on the 6922s (E88CC) and the 7308s (E188CC). The second line contains a Delta A, for the Heerlen, Holland Philips plant. Next is the year, in this case 1968. This tube was introduced in '58-'59. Next is the letter code for the month--H, so August and the next number is the week of that month. The Orange Globe tubes are quite nice, but many are pulls from electronic instruments, so people should be wary of an 'nos' designation. Any of the 6DJ8s, 6922s or 7308s can be better than the other and it just comes down mostly to what specific type and what flavor you prefer. Since this tube, especially the 6DJ8s, can be very microphonic, so be careful. As for one of the other fellows suggesting Richardson Electronics, also be careful. Richardson bought the name Amperex and can basically use the Bugle Boy, Orange Globe & PQ logo on any tube they happen to have. This includes a lot of Eastern Block garbage. Many new production tubes are flooding EBAY with 'classic names' attached. I'd hate to pay $75 for a Amperex While label PQ, only to find out in was made in Yugoslavia, or China. Good luck, Chris ------------------ My Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 I Emailed a audio repair joint in Everett WA., who works on Carver. Whoever replied said that a lot of units were coming in with burnt Tubes and the reason why was due to using other Tubes than the stock Yugos. Wasn't too specific and didn't say why. Could this be from the different millamperage specs of different brands of 6DJ8 equilevents? (I would think a different R or C value here or there would remedy any sort of problems.) 6922 are Military code for the 6DJ8, 6DJ8 was the consumer designation, (Same Tube.) I guess a lot of the 6DJ8's bad rep came in the late Sixties when they started relabeling unwanted varible mu tubes used in Televisions 6922 and 6DJ8. Which were actually 6ES8/ECC189 and not for audio. (Caught a post by Allen Wright at SET asylum.) He favors 7DJ8 and PCC88. I geuss there is a new Sovtek equilevent. And I am officially lost. I'd better start looking at Tubes specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted February 21, 2002 Author Share Posted February 21, 2002 The 6DJ8 is the USA name and ECC88 is the European name. As previously stated, The E88CC/6922 are the premium military versions of the ECC88/6DJ8. Most of these tubes have goldpins. The E188CC/7308 tubes are the special matched section, low noise and microphonics version of the E88CC/6922. However, the 7DJ8/PCC88 are the 0.3A series heater current versions of the ECC88/6DJ8. The Heater voltage is 7V. It can be used in parallel and series heater configuration. As the ECC88/6DJ8 must only be used in parallel heater configurations! ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 02-21-2002 at 06:51 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Shapeshifter, Sorry to take so long to post this, but did not get this done until today. FYI. I pulled my Amperex Buble Boy EC88s from Richardson from my Tjoeb and they are printed, Made in USA, not China, Russia, etc. I have recently purchased some NOS EC88 Amperex Bugle Boy labeled and printed Made in Holland. The construction of the two tubes is indeed so very very close though not "EXACTLY" identical. I don't think enough to matter. I'm rolling them today. I do not expect to hear a major difference. Time will tell. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted February 23, 2002 Author Share Posted February 23, 2002 Jazman, I was considering their EL84 Bugle Boys and called after I heard about the re-labeling of other branded tubes. They did confirm that the EL84 Bugle Boys available were Chinese made. Being concerned, I didn't ask about the 6DJ8 BB's. The NOS one's I did get are a bit more revealing in the mid and high frequency range. There was also an improvement in low bass impact. No doubt the rolling in of the 7189 Bugle Boys in the HF-81 added to these improvements. I'm thoroughly pleased with the results and sound of the entire system. I think Upscale Audio prefers the 7308's because they are less susceptible to revealing low noise and microphonics. Thus less prone to revealing switching sounds made by the Tjoeb, especially when using program and shuffle modes. Must say though, I'm not experiencing any audible noise from the Tjoeb with the 6DJ8 BB's. Had a great time last night listening to CD's; Miles Davis "The Definitive" from the Ken Burns PBS Jazz Documentary Series, Larry Carlton "Deep Into It" & I'm now listening to Kirk Whalum "For You" (circa 1998). Horns on Horns for breakfast, what a TREAT! My guess is, you'll hear some audible gains too! Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 If you Folks end up with some unwanted 6DJ8 equilevent tubes that you find unreasonable for your particular application, float me a Email. I have my junk Carver Cd player going again, it's has 12 dollar Yugoslavian tubes. I'm not looking for hard to find NOS stock, just something a little more quality than these. The unit is sounding pretty good. well, to me. I would like to try to swap out tubes, maybe I get better yet. Yes, it is a pretty Lame player, but I like to play. Maybe we work out a deal. Email if interested. (Around $40 $50 bucks is about what I can shoot for, if it's even feasible at this price.) THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Mike S., I have the original stock 2 Phillips tubes that came with the Tjoeb I bought. I'm certainly not using them presently. How about I float them to you no cost. When you're able to get what you want, just send them back. No deal necessary, no time limit. If it works for you, email me your mailing info. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Gee that's awfully courteous of you, Jazman! But I just noticed Welborne has NOS JAN 6922 Philips on sale for ten bucks each. Seems pretty cheap, A little over twenty bucks, I'm sure they are better than what I'm using. They are untested, Oh well. It's worth a try, twenty bucks is pretty cheap! Thank you very much for the offer though. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted February 24, 2002 Author Share Posted February 24, 2002 Mike, Brent Jessee has three NOS RCA's by Amperex listed on his web site. I bought my matched pair of NOS Mullard EZ81's from him. You may want to email him if you're interested. I pasted the listing & link below. 6DJ8 RCA made by Amperex Holland. New Old Stock Original Box. This is the same tube as the famous Bugle Boy, made in the same Holland factory. Save! $20.00 each (3 each available). http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 02-24-2002 at 07:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Thanks Wes! I'll keep this in mind. But I went ahead and bought the JAN 6922's. Twenty seven bucks with shipping, I hope I didn't rip myself off here. I'm pretty much at the point of diminishing returns with this Carver 490T cd player. Simply put, you can only polish a turd so much. This is why I didn't want to get too excited about fancy tubes, but I wanted to try some sort of a tube roll. I just hope the Philips JAN 6922 is a better tube sonically than the Elektrinski Industrijia, Nis Yugoslavian 6DJ8 tubes. (I think these are the cheapest of the 6DJ8 equilevent.) But last night after some archiving in a various Forums, I noticed that the 6DJ8 puts out 20% more current(Plate or grid?)than the 6922. And you can swap 6DJ8 for 6922 but not the other way around. I geuss I'm safe there, but I wonder if the 6922 puts out more voltage and that possibly being a problem? The service manual doesn't help much in this area. You know of any sites where I could find specs for the EI 6DJ8 and the Pillips JAN 6922? I have a modded Samsung 709 DVD player, a stock Panasonic RP56(Not a very good redbook player,IMO). But the Carver still holds it's ground, always seems more lush and full, not as detailed, but more listenable. Those tubes seem to soften things up. THANX! This message has been edited by mike stehr on 02-24-2002 at 03:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted February 24, 2002 Author Share Posted February 24, 2002 Mike, Here's a link to the Tube Directory. They have tube specs posted and pin diagrams. http://www.mclink.it/com/audiomatica/tubes/6dj8.htm The one below is to Nostalgia Air's site they have a searchable Tube Substitution and Characteristics Guide. http://www.nostalgiaair.org/NostalgiaAir/otcr.htm Hope you find these useful too. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 02-24-2002 at 03:51 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Thank you very much, Wes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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