dsommerl Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Starting with a pair of Heresy II's as the front mains and a SVS sub (maybe 2)---driven by the Pioneer VSX 49TX (THX Ultra 2 reciever)----I need advice on which CTR and 4 surrounds I should go with----budget? (wiped that out $10K ago). BIG room---10' ceiling 27'X X 23' Advice---sincerely appreciated. Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 This one is easy!, just buy three more pairs of Heresy's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 I gotta go with Manuel here. Make sure the front center is of the same vintage as your mains (in this case Heresy II's). If you pick up 2 pairs of older Heresy's, I would move the II's to the rear. If you follow thru with this (I think you can find 2 pair for well under a grand) you will be amazed by the sound. Movies will sound awesome but wait till you hear some mult-channel music (DVD-A, SACD, etc) from this rig. It will knock your socks off! Go ahead and do it! You can thank us later... Mike Edit: BTW, I think Manuel meant 2 more pairs. One pair for front and rear center channels and the other for your side surrounds. If your receiver can handle a 2nd pair of rear surrounds (A/B), then do pick up a third set and set these up in the back corners of the room and use 'em for multi-channel music. The side surrounds would be used for movies. ------------------ My Music Systems This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 01-31-2002 at 09:47 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 Thanks---BUT----though large enough---this room is the main focal point of the house---and I need to make the ctr----and for sure the surrounds---much more inconspicuos than having Heresy's all over the place Anyway----aren't the surrounds supposed to be elevated above ear level?? (those Heresy's would take a whole lot of elevation--"lift") So, what about the more "traditional" CTR spkr and surround spkr configs---cabinet sizes--what would you suggest on those? Tks Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Dave, make no mistake! Manuel and Mike are giving you better advice than you realize. Upwards of 75% of the sound on a 5.1 (or above)DVD comes through the center channel atop your TV. Moreover, it is the focus point for the most critical sounds that tie into the action on the screen. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put something less than your mains in your main sound location. The discrete channels on 5.1 (and above) make much of the common lore about centers and surrounds obsolete... for that was based on "aural clues" sent to the surrounds and, often, matrixed center channel data to the center. But why spend the money to set up your great room for the sounds of a technically challenged yesterday? Divorce! Ooops, maybe you need to go to the two-channel part of this forum. (Please, I trust that you and your wife can appreciate that in the humorous vein in which it was solely intended) Personally, I think there is nothing better that six mains set to "SMALL" with a great subwoofer to make BASS happen in your corner of the world. Try playing something you like using the Phantom Channel option on your receiver. If your prime listening area is on axis with the center of your screen... you may be surprised at what you already have. Later today I should be posting the results of a test requested by T-man on the Home Theater section of this board. You are likely to find it very interesting. But always remember, in the end, it's your ears that count... ohh, and also the aesthetic opinion of your lady! HornEd ------------------ "Where Klipsch Legends Cavort Six Ways!" FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main SB-2's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround LARGE MOUTH BASS: Twin SVS CS-Ultra subs, Samson Megawatt Amp KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808 and such... Tweakin' On! Music Respite System: vintage Cornwall based Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome: On the road testing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted February 4, 2002 Author Share Posted February 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by HornEd: Dave, make no mistake! Manuel and Mike are giving you better advice than you realize. Upwards of 75% of the sound on a 5.1 (or above)DVD comes through the center channel atop your TV. Moreover, it is the focus point for the most critical sounds that tie into the action on the screen. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put something less than your mains in your main sound location. The discrete channels on 5.1 (and above) make much of the common lore about centers and surrounds obsolete... for that was based on "aural clues" sent to the surrounds and, often, matrixed center channel data to the center. But why spend the money to set up your great room for the sounds of a technically challenged yesterday? Divorce! Ooops, maybe you need to go to the two-channel part of this forum. (Please, I trust that you and your wife can appreciate that in the humorous vein in which it was solely intended) Personally, I think there is nothing better that six mains set to "SMALL" with a great subwoofer to make BASS happen in your corner of the world. Try playing something you like using the Phantom Channel option on your receiver. If your prime listening area is on axis with the center of your screen... you may be surprised at what you already have. Later today I should be posting the results of a test requested by T-man on the Home Theater section of this board. You are likely to find it very interesting. But always remember, in the end, it's your ears that count... ohh, and also the aesthetic opinion of your lady! HornEd Okay Ed----I could go with a Heresey II for my center and another pair for the side surrounds---however, just can't do it for the back channels---Those need to be 6-7 feet off the floor and on the back wall due to room config (they are just too bulky to hang on the wall in that location)--also the primary listening sofa has a high back necessitating back channel elevation for a good "line of sight"----The backs will be 8' or so from the sweet spot and 8'apart on the wall---(the sides will be 13' L and R from the "spot". So, what would be my alternative/s for the back surrounds in this config?? (also have the SVS 2039+ with amp on the way--for my ".1") As an alternative---I bought a KLF C7 in oak for a center---but can re sell it---as I bought it for $300(or should I keep it and use Heresey's for sides and ? for backs?-----or keep it and then what for the sides and backs??) Whew, this is making me tired, HornEd! Any pointer/s are appreciated. Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Greenway Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 I used my Hersey's for the front with a KLF-C7 while I was waiting for my KLF-30's to arrive. IMHO it sounded good. The Heresys can be hung from ceiling with some cable. Seen it done a while back. Used to hang out in a club that used Heresy's hung in ceiling everywhere. The dance floor had 4 LaScalas hanging in each corner with a pair of the big concert style Klipsch bass drivers stacked on each side. They had a second floor pool hall with windows overlooking club. They had a bunch of Crown amps and they broke a bunch of the windows when they tested the system at full volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I have Heresy 2 fronts and am currently using phantom mode for the centre as I do not have room for another Heresy there. I tend to find that the dedicated centre channels are a better match for the RF range and the Legends than fro the Heresy's. As for rears I am waiting on a pair of RB5's that may or may not provide an adequate tonal match (much smaller than another pair of Heresy's). I'll let you know when I get them. ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 MaxG, glad to see your getting some benefit from the Phantom. Most folks these days buy a too wimpy center without knowing how much on-axis power and benefit a the phantom offers. I ran into a young couple from Greece the other day. They are into building a quality system and were absolutely blown away by the variety and price of goodies available in the local audio stores. I mentioned your notion of marble cabinetry and they saw it as both novel and patriotic. They drooled over my KLF-30 sixway... and snacked on some filo pastries I had made with honey, medjool dates and homemade marzipan. We also discussed the pasta and olive oil... which I found to be world class on my visits to Greece many years ago. Looking forward to your next update. HornEd ======================================= "Where Klipsch Legends Cavort Six Ways!" FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main SB-2's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround LARGE MOUTH BASS: Twin SVS CS-Ultra subs, Samson Megawatt Amp KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808 and such... Tweakin' On! Music Respite System: vintage Cornwall based Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome: On the road testing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Sorry dsommerl, I missed your question when I browsed this thread yesterday. You are on the right track, five Heresy II's with a bass tube would be far greater than you dream... it's the penultimate Heresy too! Use the C7 for the rear effects since that is the least critical and least used speaker... the one from which shifting timbre or diminished highs is least likely to be a factor... I get excited just thinking about how close you are to building a sound that will be your guide in setting up HT and multi-channel music from here on out. Make it so! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by maxg: I have Heresy 2 fronts and am currently using phantom mode for the centre as I do not have room for another Heresy there. I tend to find that the dedicated centre channels are a better match for the RF range and the Legends than fro the Heresy's. As for rears I am waiting on a pair of RB5's that may or may not provide an adequate tonal match (much smaller than another pair of Heresy's). I'll let you know when I get them. Thanks MaxG so, I take it that you'd recommend another HereseyII for the CTR (if I didn't want to go the "Phantom route) vs the C7?---if so, could it be mouonted on it's side (so it could fit in the cabinet)? Further, you mention RB5's---is the rear mounted port a problem if these are mounted on or close to a wall (vs a sealed cab)? Again, I'm going for a 7.1 set up--so need 2 "sides" and 2 "backs"---the HereseyII's could work for the "sides---but are just too large for the back per my original post--so, would you go with a pair of Heresey's for the sides and then maybe RB5's in the rears---or go with the same spkr model for all 4 surrounds RB5's or whatever)?--OR---are there some discontinued book shelf models that would be even better for me (preferrably in an oak finish to match my rooms astethetics)? Your opines on this would be very appreciated Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 HornEd Tks for your re read and reply----think I'll need 2 backs---won't I? (vs using the C7---or did you mean get a second C7---they seem to readily available on the open market).----my recv'r outputs two rear channels--L and R--- At any rate----going with 3 more Heresy II"s---I'd end up with an odd/extra one---can this be used as a single Back spkr? (if so--would I just connect either the left or right output?) Also---no problem in laying the HeresyII CTR on it's side (vs upright as it's designed)? Ole HornEd----I am obviously a novice at this--but am trying to avoid becoming a Klipsch warehouse in order to find the best set up (or a Kipsch broker)---look for all my bought and "unbought" stuff soon on EBay and elsewhere!---your continued patience and help are really appreciated (think I'm about at the final config decision phase) Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Dsommerl - I would go for the all Heresy setup (or at least Heresys for the front 3 speakers). You can look at my web page to see my setup with Cornwalls. It simply rocks. You haven't mentioned what your viewing device will be (direct view, front projection) but a Heresy would be a great center in either case. The timber match between the 3 front speakers, as others have mentioned, is VERY important. Before I got my HIP-II for the center I had an RC-3. The difference is like night and day. The sound quality is so much better now I can't believe it. I had always though that the RC-3 was a close enough match but I was very wrong. Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Dsommerl, unless you have a gigantic room, there is very little difference between 6.1 and 7.1... and it is likely to stay that way until there is a sufficient 7.1 installed base to make it worthwhile. I suspect you would be just as well off with one or two KLF-C7's behind your couch. The rear effects speakers (as mentioned elsewhere) are the least important speakers in terms of program material, timbre matching or loss of highs. But, you could mount them behind your couch up high on shelves... angled down toward the sweet spot if necessary. I have used that technique with 7.1 in close spaces before. Your on the right track... hope you'll be popping for the good stuff soon! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 Thanks "eq" The display is a Mits 65907-----built into a cabinet me and a freind "created"---pretty proud of it--will take some jpegs and post it--has a removable bottom panel for that "built in" look---TV just rolls out One last Q---am I okay laying the Heresy on it's side at the CTR location?---and one of the sides on it's side vs upright (the other---R side needs to be upright)? HornEd--- Likewise---okay to vertically oreint the C7's if I use for back channels? (vs horizontally as designed)? Both of you all's "final answers" would be very appreciated---(so I can quit obcessing over this stuff--get back to work so I can spend some more $) Tks Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Yeah, it's okay... Kinda like when the waitress asks, "is everything okay?" And the reply is, "We thought it was going to be WONDERFUL... but it's okay." As said earlier, positioning, etc. of the rear effects speakers are less critical. But having the wide array of center speakers is preferable to the narrow one that will result from vertical array. The good news is that the exponential horn in a C7 actually provides its wider array when it is mounted vertically. Go to work so we can hear you boast about your system sooner. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 Yes sir!---on to the auction sites!!! Tks for all the help and advice-----when it's put together (hopefully in 30 days) I will report in. (why are all my hobbies expensive ones?)---Know anything about the Ping fitting system? Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 The Heresys will be fine on their side too. Actually some people prefer this arrangement. I think that the positioning will be a little more tricky but with some playig around I am sure that you can get a nice big soundstage. I have my center Heresy actually upside down and angled towards the listener. I tried it on its side but it blocked some needed TV controls so it ended up like it is now. Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubadj Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I am having the same speaker dilemma. I am set with Cornwall fronts and C-7 front center. I bought a pair a Heresys for the surrounds. Now I've ordered the new Outlaw 7.1 processor and am looking for the other two speakers. Another set of Heresys is out - too big. Was thinking about RS-7 or RCW-5 in-walls. After reading HornEd's post that the rears are the least critical for the time being, any advice on how to arrange the remaining 4 speakers? Should I use the Heresys for the sides or the rears? I'm almost to the wiring stages in my room and any advice is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 scuba, is another set of heresy too big for the side or the rear surrounds? i'd use 3 or 4 heresy all the way around w/ what u now have. or at the very least use the heresy as rear surround (should be direct speaks). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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