chinoloco

Sigh.....sorry guys.. I am about to write a book here. I think I moved too fast when building my 2 systems. Had I known that the 55TXi was going to come out with "ilink", I might have waited for a bit. Oh well.. what is the solution? Build a third system!!!! I am excited because you seem to get great results over ilink. In my setup, my DV-45a is connected with 3 pairs of RCS for multi channel, 1 pair for 2 channel and then coaxial for digital. One thing I am super frustrated by is that I just like the digital output more then analog output. (2 channel guys.. eat your heart out!!!) DVD-A and SACD over analog is sure frustrating me for sure. Examples: 1. Any regular audio CDs. With the music travelling over the Digital coaxial via PCM output, the sound is much more deeper. The Bass is much more intense and the sound to me is more full. Setting on the AVR is "Source Direct". I have almost listened to every CD I have in my collection, switching from 2 channel analog audio cable connection and Digital. Digital wins everytime. 2 channel analog utput just sounds hollow to me. 2. SACDs. I cannot tell you if this is the mixing or its the lack of bass management on my equipment. It just seems like with the 5.1 multi channel, the mixing seems to ignore the .1 channel alot of the times. Its like to me.. you have 6 connections. 1 is dedicated for the sub... why is there so little sound out of the subwoofer? I know there is a little output on the sub, but shouldn't the bass be more intensified? its like when they mixed it, they cut down on the bass. I have called Pioneer, set my crossover at 100hz. I have set my speakers to Small, and sub to on with both ends. Sub sounds much weaker when compared to regular CDs over PCM. I love the 5 channels on the highs and the mids. Its nice to have more fulfilling sound and have more direction from soem of the music. now please direct all the damn Bass to the .1 channel so I don't need to get external bass management equipment. 3. DVD-A and DVD music. What can I say? I have 2 DVD-As. One is the DTS surround Hell Freezes over by the Eagles, the other is Night at the opera by Queen. I pop in the eagles disc and listen in digital surround. ahh.. nice.. deep sounds, full sounds clean crisp concise music, bass is satisfactory when using DTS output over digital coaxial. Switch the AVR to analog 5.1 output. Bass output seemed to be cut in half. sound is more hollow and empty. AM I LISTENING TO BOSE ALL OF THE SUDDEN??? very dissappointing for me to be sure. Pop in the the Queen DVD-A. bohemian rhapsody in 5 channel.. very cool. low bass output AGAIN... not so cool. Bottom line, I have concluded either I need to change equipment to get more bass from the Subwoofer and go digital throughout. One thing I am still unclear about is does DVD-As go through ilink as well? I thought it was only SACD but I want to be sure. I guess I may have to get the outlaw ICBM to control all sounds under a certain frequency to the sub. To the gang here: 1. Will I get more bass "out of the box" by going DV47Ai? 2. Will the Outlaw ICBM save my DV45a from being weak?? is the DV45A the only player weak on bass? 3. How is the bass over ilink? thanks for the help... frustrated as hell and not sure where to go next.

The reason that the serial numbers are removed is to protect the dealer who is wholeselling the equipment to the internet dealers. The manufacturer can track the providers via the serial numbers. If they find out who is supplying the internet dealers, then that retailer can lose its "authorized" dealer status with klipsch. Having said all of that.. all my stuff is from an authorized dealer except for the KSW-12 which was off Ebay. I prefer to go authorized, but many people chose to save a few bucks. If you deal with authorized dealers.. you can usually get a price not that much higher then unauthorized dealers.

Its in the classic product under classic classics...

Its because sounddistributors.com is not a "authorized" retailer. If you go authorized, you pay a higher price, but you also I think get the Klipsch warranty.

I have both the KSW-12 and the RW-10. I am thinking of selling mine on Ebay and getting a RW-12 or a RSW10 so I can use the RW-10 with my quintets. I would get a RW-8 or 10 for the Quintets, just so they would not be so overmatched. If you go KSW line, I think the KSW-10 works better with the Quintets then the 12. There was another post here on the board mentioning that becuase of the crossover between the quintets and the KSW-10 were better aligned then the KSW12. KSW line is WAY too boomy. RW-10 is more refined. Having said that remember that RW is front firing. Please do not block it. Its not downfiring like the KSW line. I do appreciate the rumble effects for movies though from a KSW-12. As nice as the RW-10 is, I can never get the physical "feel" that I can with the KSW. I guess its because its not aimed at the floor.

Personally, I think the biggest difference in speaker wires are cosmetic. Clear or white? Round or flat? In-wall or out of wall? Can you paint over it or not? Other then that, the gauge is the main difference. I use monster flat cable because... its FLAT. its easier to run under carpet or slap against a wall. To be honest, after testing many speaker wires, Radio Shack wires are as good as Monster and better priced too. I have been installing most of my wires with RS wires now instead of monster.

Rat Shack stuff works great. I think for the inexpensive price of the Ebay wires, it doesn't hurt to give one a try. its better then spending $149.00 for a MV3 25 ft component video cable and getting the same results as a RS or a Ebay cable.

Diss, I just answered you in PM. Just in case, with quintets, I am usually at about -25db to -20db. If I want to blow my brains out, I go as low as -10db. I am the same with the RF-15s as well, but that system is in a larger room. Don't be too worried about the volume being so far. I doubt I can hear anything less then -60db anyways.. James

At that distance, you might want to go with better cables. The reason is signal intergrity and strength. Having said all of that.. I do feel Monster is a rip off... imho. However.. to go inexpensive: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3045268053&category=14965 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3045403544&category=298 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3430298966&category=3668 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3045865924&category=15066 I think the Python cable looks good. Actually, all cables in the pictures look thick enough to have have good transfer of signal. Thats the second link. Good luck. James

while you are at it.. the AVR525 price as well... James

BUMP! James, I wanted to bump up your thread to the top to see how are the results so far with the system? I am seriously thinking about going your route for updates in the near future. SACD Bass management is very frustrating without either the outlaw ICBM or iLink it seems. I just found out from Pioneer that I need to set all my speakers to "small" to get the bass to pass through to the subwoofer. I have been messing around and listening to "large" for speaker type and subwoofer "plus" due to comments here. Sometimes this has worked better, but I think since the 45TX needs to have small settings to pass bass to LFE, I am going to mess with my settings again. I would appreciate some updates as I am pondering how to convince my wife to go along for the 55TXi/47Ai purchase...

your room looks like maybe you can make a corner shelf. If you can do that, perhaps you can place both surrounds on the shelf about 5 feet high off the ground. you can always move your sofa 1 ft forward when watching a movie and move it back afterwards. i cannot tell how much room there is there. The speaker still may not fit on the shelf. In your situation, bookshelfs may be better then surrounds. If you had bookshelfs, it might fit in the little area from the back wall to the window. one other suggestion is to place the surround veritical instead of horizontal. I am not sure how much it would affect your sound in the small room. Most ideal however is like someone else said. Fly them off the ceiling from the side position and angle them down towards the sitting area. Surrounds from the side is ideal in a 5.1 setup.

It looks like you should mount the quintets to the front and rear walls as you do not have a left wall. Wall-mounting gives you some advantages and stands gives you others. Wall mount allows you to have the speaker higher then stands. I like this as I like to have my speakers around 6 ft off the ground and angled slightly down and in. I like this as I can have speakers on a wall position were there might be a cabinet or something in the way not allowing a stand. In my bedroom, i wall mounted quintets. it works great. Also, you can tap the wires onto the wall and they will not be so much in the way. Stands however allows you to move them around. You are not subjected to the "stud" location on the all and is more flexible usually. however, with this flexibility, you usually have wires on the floor all over the place and you cannot put stands where there is furniture. If you do not plan on moving the speakers much, I like wall mounts. If you re-arrange furniture often, go with stands.

---------------- On 9/6/2003 2:13:37 PM easylistener wrote: There are a lot of movies out now with a discrete 6 channel. What are we going to do when the 11.1 format comes out and is the norm? I think I will need a bigger room ---------------- Easy, Are you sure? I know there are alot of DTS ES, but most of those DVDs are Matrixed 6.1 and not discrete 6.1. I am more interested in finding all the discrete 6.1 DVDs out there.

no kidding.. electricity in this state is a damn joke.

I think 7.1 is better then 6.1 because you will have better fill. It won't matter because EVERYTHING out right now is 5.1 with the sound combined for the third rear channel. Even your 6.1/7.1 is still just enhanced 5.1. Getting 7.1 shouldn't cost you that much more and its just more flexible in case you want to get a little more fill in sound for the room. Also think about the type of speakers you are going to put in. if you use a center for your rear, its hard physically to put in. 1 bookshelf or surround may not be so good at filling in the room, so if you can do it, go with 7 speakers. To be honest, there is nothing out in 6.1 that is a discrete channel (dedicated, mixed for that specific channel). Everything in the 6th channel is just the two surrounds combined.

There are quie a few movies now that uses Dolby Digital EX (5.1 plus a third non discrete surround channel) and DTS-ES (Discrete and non discrete flavors). Daredevil, The Two Towers, Attack of the clones. are movies that are either DD-EX or DTS-ES. Here is a excerpt that helps explains this stuff. The page is: http://www.timefordvd.com/ref/THXSurroundEX.shtml THX Surround EX, also known as Dolby Digital EX, refers to the Dolby Digital version of the new "6.1"-channel surround sound format that extends the 5.1-channel surround sound format with one (or two) additional speaker(s) located in the back of the audience (i.e., back surround channel). THX Surround EX is actually a 5.1-channel format with the back surround audio channel matrixed into those of the right and left surround. The back surround channel is matrixed in similar fashion as the front center channel is matrixed into the front right and left channels in the Dolby Surround Pro-Logic format. As such, the back surround channel is not discrete and therefore THX Surround EX is not a true "6.1" format. What about the extended surround "7.1" format? Well, "7.1" is not a true surround sound format. Rather it refers to home theater equipment manufacturers' proprietary implementation of two back surround channels using the same back surround audio signal that was discussed above. Usually, the audio signal fed to the two back surround channels are identical, but some manufacturers may choose to mix some information from the left and right surrounds. Again, these are proprietary implementations that vary across manufacturers and are not industry standards. The use of two back surround speakers fills in the sound better from the rear of the audience than single back surround speaker implementations. http://www.timefordvd.com/ref/dts-ES.shtml DTS Extended Surround refers to the Digital Theater Sound's version of the new "6.1"-channel surround sound format that extends the 5.1-channel surround sound format with one (or two) additional speaker(s) located in the back of the audience (i.e., back surround channel). DTS Extended Surround (or DTS-ES for short) comes in two flavors: (1) DTS Extended Surround Matrix, or (2) DTS Extended Surround Discrete 6.1.

Maybe its in-wall installation speaker wire installation? I know the interconnects and speaker wires will cost you at least 200-300. The TV delivery should not be more then 100.00. that still leaves alot of money left over. Inwall installation does cost alot.

---------------- On 9/4/2003 10:37:56 PM HT Rookie wrote: Chinoloco- Again thx for the feedback. I read an article that you might be interested in about the surround speakers. here is the link http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/local.faq/ObjectID/F5CA2EB5-3D20-11D4-A67F00D0B7473B37 ---------------- Interesting article. "When listening to many movies using dipole surround speakers compared to conventional monopole speakers, one might hear a smoother transition of sounds panning from front to rear " This is why i bought dipole speakers. Good thing is in the room where I have my current setup, its logistically only going to allow me to have 5.1 because the back wall is 40 feet from the front wall. I don't want to hang from the ceiling if possible. However if I did, the dipoles will work great because the speakers are much higher then the listener's ear position which acording to the article much better for dipole. Like I said, its important to listen and think about your purpose for the rears... music or movies.

---------------- On 9/4/2003 4:25:44 PM HT Rookie wrote: Chinoloco Thx for the reply. I am curious, how do you like the dipole speakers (RS-25), the guy at the store was trying to sell me on them, but I would prefer to use the RB-25's ---------------- To be honest with you, I have not listened to the RB-25s as surrounds so i have little to judge on. Having said that, I like the RS-25. It seems to give great effects on movies whether its DTS or DD. I do think that the RB-25's front port might give you some more bass and the tweeter and the horn facing the front will give some direction, but I do appreciate the angled tweeters of the RS-25. Not to mention that the RS-25 has 2 tweeters at 90 degrees instead of 1 tweeter, I feel that design is better for placement of effects for movies. I know people here will swear by their floors or book shelfs, but like mOOn, for movies, when the sound is supposed to be for over there.. I want to hear it like its from over there. It hasn't been a problem for music at this time as my 5.1 DVDs are usually live performances and the RS gives the crowd some life with the wider dispertion. It does make you feel more like you are in the room of a live concert. On a SACD that is studio recorded and not live with Multi-channel, well... I can comment tonight after I finish cabling the player with the 6 cables so I can listen to multi channel SACD. If you truly like 2 channel music even for SACDs and want the surrounds for movies, consider the RS. If you are 5.1 channel music and don't care as much for movies.. then go with the RB. I know 5.1 music is a hot button topic, so it kinda up to you. If you are fifty-fifty, then I would go with the RS because I think movies will be affected more then music. The surrounds of music should be giving "ambience" so the wide dispertion may not be such a bad thing. I am not dissappointed with the RS25 at all. I think sometimes, its easy to forget that the RS is designed specifically for surround and we take these dipole speakers for granted.

Frankie, You are correct. I asked about that at the RS. Amazingly enough, the store manager was able to point out the ferrite toroidal filter. He didn't know it by name.. but he mentioned the filter on the analog cables remove almost any possible interference and that the cable is twisted pair. I am interested in your thoughts if you happen to get any of these cables. James

To give the illusion of more sound space. I think because the RS speaker is not a direct speaker, it might be possible you can be fooled into thinking there are 2 speakers in the rear. However, for the feeling of something directly behind you, a rear center will be better because tweeter and horn is directly facing you from behind where on the RS, tweeters are off to the side. at least.. thats my theory of it.

Well... for about $130.00, the specs look decent enough. It doesn't have any additional video signal processing like a DCDi. At least it has the 192kHz/24-bit audio D/A converter for audip CDs. You can get it off the web for about $130.00 so you might lose a little in the video and audio depts. but its not bad. I have a JVC Dvd player. It works fine for normal use.

I am a little concerned about the Denon Digital Link. It looks like a RJ-45 Ethernet cable connection to me. I am not so sold on this transportation method for SACDs yet. Does anyone have any more info on this?

marksdad, Hell, just go RF7s all the way around. Thats my dream setup.