Deang

It can also simply be a thing used as a baseline. If being used in the context of a measuring stick, Klipsch may simply have just been issuing a challenge to all the wanna-be 'reference' speakers on the market --

Probably a thousand posts on this. No one can predict which you would prefer. It's simply a matter of personal taste. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Even the mighty Klipschorn is not 'perfect'. I will say that Heritage is much more sensitive to amplification and sources. The midrange horns are brutal, and reveal everything. Heritage can be either demonic or angelic, all depending on what you feed them. Reference is just a different animal. The two-ways are much more tolerant of imperfections in the chain. However, they also respond extremely well to upgrades, and if done right, can surpass Heritage in several areas. I am an RF-7 freak, and feel confident in telling you that staying on the Reference path can be very satisfying in every way.

He's on the level. It's all about point of Reference. I remember when I thought Advents were the end all, then I heard DQ-10's, then I heard Magnepans -- and on it goes. No doubt a set of SF-2's would crush the Acoustimash system. I don't think Reference or Heritage is available through Best Buy. If so, then I might get a part time job at Best Buy.

I hate Korn. Have always hated Korn. But 'Untouchables' is ground breaking. About damn time that band learned how to make music.

Craig can't render an opinion yet. He's in the process of kicking himself for sticking those POS Jensens in the ST-70. He's waiting on some Auricaps to stick in there. I just read that Al K thinks the PIO's are probably O.K. for amps, cause to compensate for the losses, all you have to do is turn it up more. Now Craig, I KNOW you know how to do that!!

Nice Job. Yeah, the wood is cool. Very nice. I second the Auricaps...big time. As for something like the Cardas posts versus the terminal screws -- which of the two are more like wire? The terminal strips and screws are very low mass, and more likely to pass the signal cleaner. Anyone buying that? I didn't think so.

Welcome to the forum Winford. Someone should be along soon to help. You just threw me a curve ball.

Well... you can do it right here, or you could also use www.audiogon.com

Now see, what did I tell you? "Oh ye of little faith."

Sorry Artto, that's not a link. I just cut and paste what was on Brent Jesse's page. You'll have to scroll down to see the text I copied. No picture. You'll have to email Brent and ask him. I trust him implicitly. http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm Thanks Marvel. I'm sure you know there are at least a dozen 5751 types, and they all have a somewhat different signature. I've seen Sylvania 5751's for $50 a piece!

Your diaphram is fried. You can replace it yourself for $25, or send it in to be done for you. Call 1-800-511-3343, or email info@simplyspeakers.com -- tell them you need to have the diaphram replaced in your K-77 tweeter. Get a qoute. Chill, everything will be cool.

Thanks Allan Artto, are these them? 12AX7 / 7025 Japanese made New Old Stock in original and whiteboxes. Nice tube, similar to Mullard in construction. Most made at the Matshush!ta factory, which was set up by Mullard U.K. $10. Several are 7025, add $5 to price. I've been doing quite a bit of reading on tubes as of late. I started doing more research after realizing how good the 5963 RCA Blackplates sounded that Edmond sent with the Cary. With the Mullard EZ-81's in the preamp, I actually prefer the 5963's over the Telefunkens. The 5963 is basically a low gain, low noise version of the 12au7. The tube has about 70-80% of the gain of the 12au7. Reading through Joe's Tube Lore at the Asylum, I found out about the 5751 as a replacement for the 12ax7. Same story as the 5963 and 12au7. A tube designed to overcome some of the problems with the 12ax7. Low gain, low microphonics/noise design. Any history with the 5751 and the Scott? Any opinions here on this? From Joe's Tube Lore: After reviewing most of the 12ax7's, he goes on -- Well I've just run roughshod over some of the most revered tubes in the NOS universe and basically damned them with faint praise at best. So what do you do if your gear has a couple of sockets that expect to see a 12AX7? Well I would propose that you cast an eye toward the 12AX7s more refined and altogether superior offspring - the cheap, lowly 5751. In its day (it was introduced in the mid '50s) the 5751 was created as premium 12AX7 designed by US manufacturers to overcome the well known limitations of American made 12AX7s, specifically: huge sample to sample variability, microphonics and noise. The fact is this tube had considerable care exercised in its design that is evidenced in its physical construction: Rigid metal rods linking the mica spacers for a more rigid less microphonic tube, a third mica spacer to brace the getter halo (again to combat microphonics), careful testing to assure consistency tube to tube and lower mu (apparently to combat noise) which results in an altogether more focused & palpable sound. But then a funny thing happened. This tube was made in massive quantities by companies like Sylvania, RCA, GE and Raytheon and was supplied to the US military resulting in massive JAN stocks of NOS tubes lying about. Just not the sort of exclusive limited availability tube that exclusive NOS tube dealers could charge $ 50 a pop for - like those rare & exclusive Tele & Mullard 12AX7s...So a premium tube with great performance and a genuinely careful design has knocked about as a common $8 NOS plug in for 12AX7s while its less capable but better known 12AX7 competitors have achieved legend status. Now all may not be well in audio land here so I'll warn you now. The 5751 has a lower mu than a 12AX7 and some circuits purportedly don't abide by that but I've tried them in 4 preamps with no problems and this guy has found pride of place in a lot of tube preamps over the years CJ used them in their line stages for years and Joule Elektra ran them in the LA 100 / 200 series of preamps until very recently - so there are other people have heard the merit in these guys too. So if the 5751 is the direction to look, where do you start? Well there are several choices and vintages (most of which are ridiculously cheap) that will put a Tele or Mullard 12AX7 to shame... http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AX7

You're also running 3 Heritage big boys and a pair of Heresies with that getup. I'm running one set of RF-7's with 60 wpc. The significance here (and Craig and myself were just talking about this), is that I haven't been able to approach near this level of control and cleanliness with anything else I've had. If the low power folks are right, I should have been able to reach this level with 16 wpc. I couldn't get it with the Apollo SET amps (18 wpc), and I couldn't get it with the triode, all Class A, 35 wpc AES AE-25 Superamp DJH. Both of these amps would begin to sound pinchy and strained past 95 db. I could get 100-105 db -- but it wasn't enjoyable to listen too. The Quicksilvers are fierce sounding, and at 105 db -- are very LISTENABLE. It's not just about the loudness, but also how good it sounds riding those high waves. I've concluded that though horns don't need much power to sound good, or to get loud -- they do benefit from additional power, so they can sound good while playing loud. Horns benefit from headroom just like any other speaker. Reference needs at least 40 wpc, and Heritage, should be run with at least 20. Those of you who listen to elevator music or Jazz, can probably throw these numbers out the window.

I was kidding about donations, I certainly wasn't expecting anyone to donate tubes! After I finish paying Edmond for the SLP-90, I'll start scrounging money together for the tubes. Of course Artto, if you're independantly wealthy, and those Telefunkens are just collecting dust... I'm glad you don't hate everyone anymore Allan:) I can't see eBay from work -- what is that last link all about?

I wonder where they possibly could have come up with this idea. http://www.klipsch.com/listeninglounge/

Another excellent post.

Excellent post. And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion, A home and a country should leave us no more! Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved home and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Pretty cool design. After all the painting I've done, I'm wondering if it might not be easier just to vinyl veneer those shelves.

Yep, I'm a wuss. 100db is about as high as I can go and still enjoy it, and even with that -- maybe just a couple of songs. You guys need the wax cleaned out of your ears!!

I sent you some mail Mike. Craig, sent you some mail too. Yeah, I did the zoning in bit -- then I zoned out! I was counting the wires on the 9 pin. I had a vision of using the braid to pull the old solder off -- and then the whole thing coming undone like an old watch -- BOING.

I had the meter sitting on my listening chair. However, I was WAY back at the end of the room! I took the reading as I walked past the chair to turn it down.

...and Craig says, "When you gonna say something about the Scott?" "What is there to say man? It's great." "Have you opened up the bottom of that thing yet." "Nope, I saw what you did on the 299a I had, so I figured you did pretty much the same on the 299b." "Naw man, you gotta go in there and look." "I'll get around to it eventually, right now -- I'm buried in RF-7 and DQ-10 crossover parts." "Well man, you GOTTA go in there and check it out -- I busted my butt on that thing." "Yeah, yeah, yeah." I've haven't done ANY critical listening on the downstairs system at all -- until this week. My focus was on the upstairs. I spent the better part of a month dialing it in. Most of that time was spent on speaker placement and room acoustics. No small chore moving 100 pound speakers on spikes, an inch at a time. I finally developed an additional brain cell or two, and ended up removing the spikes so I could move the RF-7's around easier. This system is complete. The Quicksilvers, though not possessing the transparency of the Apollos at the lower listening levels -- are fearsome driving the RF-7's. I love the warmth and huge, expansive soundstage of the EL-34's. At high power, everything stays together without a trace of grain or strain. It is simply the best system I have ever heard for the music I listen to up there. It was finally time to see what was really going on with the Scott and Cornwalls. I had already rewired the Cornwalls, damped the areas I was concerned with, found the right cable, caulked the inside edge of the frame where the back fits in, and screwed the backs on with some nice stainless steel screws and finishing washers. The Scott has been patient, primarily pulling duty for two-channel HT. Some music, sometimes loud just for fun -- but no serious listening or judgment of the sound. Craig had sent me his Telefunkens, and the resistors I needed if I was going to try the triode mod. We had been bantering on the phone about this mod business. I want as much Class A as the Scott can give me, Craig wants me just to try it. Craig wants me to get what brain I have -- out of the way, and just try it. He's actually being the sensible one here. I have no problem tearing my RF-7's down and throwing in some new parts. Speakers are cake -- amps OTOH, scare the hell of me. Last night, I decided I was going to have a serious listen. Which I did for a couple of hours. I then decided I wanted to put the Telefunkens in. I had the Scott pulled out, and KNEW Craig was going to ask me again if I pulled the bottom off while I had her out. I have no idea how this guy gets his iron in some of these places. I'm without a doubt hampered by only having vision out of one eye, but even with two eyes -- I'm not so sure I get into some of those places without burning parts, myself, and Lord knows what else. I was checking the instructions Craig had sent for placement of the resistors. "Nothing to this mod", he tells me on the phone. "Just unhook the orange wire from the 7169, and strap the resistor between the 7 and 9 pin." So, I'm looking in there. Looking in there very hard. I get the flash light. Folks, this just ain't happening. I was laughing out loud while looking at this. I'm going to need a major psyche-up session before I tackle this. I invited Debbie over to take a peek with me. She started laughing too. My nick-name is "Mr. Fix It", and my motto is, "If ain't broke -- it will be." While contemplating my soldering skills, I was staring at the bottom of the amp. "What the hell?" I started seeing quite a few things that were different than the 299a I had. One thing in particular was the simply fantastic job he did adding the additional power supply filtration. "Ah, I think to myself -- this is what that clown wanted me to see." This looked anything but simple, and had to have taken awhile to complete. Craig always takes care of me. Thanks Craig -- awesome. So how does it sound. Excellent, but definitely better with the Telefunkens in it. I like the sound of Craig's Scotts a lot. I like them as well as anything I've had in this house over the last year. For you newbies -- that's an endorsement of the highest order. As far as the system as a whole: I have the same thoughts that I had with the NosValves 299a and the Heresies -- extremely musical. It's a system that makes you forget about the equipment, and just listen to the music. BTW Craig -- When I decide to do the mod, I'm sending it down to you. Uh -- I can't carry your toolbox if you catch my meaning here.

This is one of my other 'systems'. Compact, and can be easily moved into any room of the house. 'It' also does 110 db.

Trust me on this -- I'll never do it again. Yeesh.

If you know a place where I can find Telefunkens at $25, please tell me. I haven't seen a Smoothplate anywhere for less than $50 each.