timbley

I have two separate JVC RX-F10 receivers I get more amplifier channels that way.

---------------- On 6/22/2005 10:01:20 PM tkdamerica wrote: I also have a small room but a high A-Frame ceiling--Acoustically it really helps. I run a "9.2" setup with a Denon 4802R...Incredible! ---------------- Wow! That little cannon is cool.

While I think local pickup is by far the best idea, I'm willing to find/make suitable boxes and get these RF-7s packaged up if somebody would like them shipped somewhere. I may even be able to purchase the orignal boxes from somebody local, but I'll have to ask about that.

How did you manage such a good deal? I wish I would have done that. If this is the going price for new, special order RF-7s, I may have to lower my price.

Yeah, it's a bummer. You could try tearing out all the drywall and replacing it with acoustic diffusion and absorption panels. I've thought about it.

You'll need to put some kind of shaping circuit on those tweeters. They're nothing close to flat from 2000 to 20,000.

Would an EQ be out of the question? I had good luck with mine. Can that sub be moved? The 40Hz bass boom in my listening room has been all but eliminated by re-positioning my speakers.

---------------- On 6/20/2005 12:30:33 AM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: ---------------- What is "Class H"? Chris ---------------- Is that H for Hybrid feedback?

---------------- On 6/19/2005 4:07:40 PM msst wrote: I'm not understanding the hot top on the highs that people complain about and having to do the crossover change of bringing the the top down some to tame the RF-7's. I do not have this probelm at all with my setup. ---------------- It could just be that your room acoustics go very well with the RF-7s.

Using an active crossover and Behringer Equalizer with the RF-7 allowed me to tailor it's sound to a great degree. I made a much mellower speaker out of it, although a lot of that had to do with extending the high frequency response and improving the blending with the mid-woofers, which didn't necc. mean turning the horn down 5 or 6db. It could actually sound harsher and yet dead and muffled at the same time if the horn was turned down to much. It became sweeter if I turned it into a 3 way, with the upper 10" midwoofer acting as a midrange, and the lower covering the bass. The bass got pretty lousy in this configuration, as you can imagine. But the harshenss all but disappeared in the mids and highs. I really think pushing a 10" driver up to 2200, and having two of them cover the midrange at the same time is a bigger portion of the speaker's unique sound, which some people find less than satisfying. The horn's rough response also adds to it. Now my RF-7s are back to original stock configuration. My first impression of listening to them like this again is that they sound quaint, like an olde tyme radio. They're brighter, a little microphonic, and the soundstage is almost completely flattened. I guess the room corrections I was making were helping quite a bit. Also my girfriend took down the heavy curtains I had bought for room treatment. She said they were blocking the light. Maybe so, but they also really helped. The imaging is off to one side again, toward my right ear, which is now facing a big sliding glass door with no real curtains on it. Another thing I noticed about the RF-7 is that by having both of those 10" drivers cover up to 2200, it creates more immediate floor reflections of the midrange. This seems to hamper imaging and make the room setup more critical. If I eliminated the midrange from the lower driver, the imaging stabilized. Earlier it was said that the room is as important as the speaker, and I whole heartedly agree. I've noticed a similar effect from several completely different speakers in my front room. Moved to other rooms or other people's houses, those speakers have always improved. I just moved a pair of RadioShack RCA Linaeum bookshelf speakers to my bedroom. They sound wonderful in there. So I move them back to the front room - not so good. Then I start switching between them and the stock RF-7s. After 10 minutes I absolutely hate both speakers - but that's another subject entirely, confusing the hell out of your ears by rapid switching. To make matters worse, I tried to use the RF-7s to cover the bass and the Linaeums the mids and highs. I started switching the crossover frequency on the fly, moving it all over the place, as high as 9K and as low as 80HZ. My ears were spinning on the sides of my head. These speakers have entirely different presentations and do not play together at all. But it taught me that each speaker relies on a certain illusion to convince us that what we're hearing from it is natural enough to pass our critical mind. When put right next to eachother, it's obvious that neither of them have go it right. They point out eachother's flaws. Cohesiveness comes from similarity of error throughout the audio spectrum. That's enough of my rambling.

I did a little burn in test once. I bought two brand new SA-XR50 receivers a while back. I quickly listened to both, and then put one back in it's box, and played the other one as well as fed it white noise to run through 8 ohm resistors with enough current to make them hot. After a few weeks of this I was of the distinct impression that the burned in receiver was sounding better. So I took the other one out of it's box and listened to it. It sounded exactly the same to me. Somehow it too had improved, despite not being used. Hmmm...

---------------- On 6/18/2005 1:50:02 PM timbley wrote: ... I want to get something smaller for my little condo. I'm in a downscaling mode... ---------------- That's not exactly true now that I think about it. I'm actually going to try to make my own speakers, not get smaller ones. They will be smaller, but there may end up being a huge subwoofer with two 15" drivers in the corner of my room. Or maybe not. I'm going to try making a 4 or 5 way (if subwoofer is added) active system. Why? Well, I think direct radiators do extremely well when they're asked to cover a narrow frequency range, and they are of appropriate size for the frequencies they are covering. I heard a 6 way speaker design last month, and old kit of some kind from the 70's that the local second hand stereo store had on consignment. The speaker was weak in the bass and needed some EQ, but there was definitely a magic to it's sound in the midrange. Other direct radiator experiences, and a re-listening to the Klipschorns, is making me realize that in my small condo I can't take advantage of the concert level decibles that horns have to offer, and that direct radiators can be incredibley lush, detailed and spacious sounding in smaller rooms at lower volumes. So I'm going to leave Klipsch, and horn speakers at least for the time being, and see what I can come up with now that these new fangled digital crossovers make the whole thing a lot easier.

---------------- On 6/18/2005 9:26:00 PM Speedball wrote: Lots of different pro amps Panasonic & H.K. recievers Carver-Pro .......... Maybe these will give you something to get started with... ---------------- Don't forget the humble JVC F-10 receiver with it's hybrid feedback digital amps.

Concert level sound. Tremendous energy and presence. I just listened to my friend's Khorns a couple weekends ago for the first time in about a year. During that year my RF-7 setup had come along way toward matching his Khorn setup in clarity and bass quality. Many instruments sounded more realistic to me on my RF-7s. And despite the poor qualities of my listening room, I definitely had a more 3 dimensional soundstage. (I should mention his room ain't that great either.)The RF-7 bass would go deeper. But his Khorns can play louder, and their midrange is stronger. Vocals have a live presence to them that few other speakers can match.

Maple finish, excellent condition. The grills are perfect, drivers are perfect. The finish is near perfect. I found one minor scratch on top of one speaker. You really have to be looking for it to see it. These are great speakers, but I want to get something smaller for my little condo. I'm in a downscaling mode. $1200.00. Local pickup, unless you want to arrange some kind of shipping. I don't have the boxes

---------------- On 5/22/2005 4:29:13 AM dragonfyr wrote: There are some tools that will allow convolving impulse response tools that are beginning to appear. ---------------- Sounds very intersting. I think my system could benifit from being convoluted.

Behringer doesn't offer TEF TDS and MLS for under $300.00, so it can't be important.

My Dad's Wave radio sounds nice. It really does. Beats the hell out of most clock radios. But $500.00 nice? I bought it for him because he really, really wanted it. I'm glad he still likes it.

So what sorts of things have you been up to in the time domain lately?

yes, I read that book. It had pictures of these 2D beings, how they ate, fought wars, etc. It's a real brain spinner. I liked how, as a 3D being, there was nothing they could hide from me. I could see right through their bodies, and right down to the core of their planet.

I'm sorry to see that. Lonely corners indeed. I don't think anything will stand in for the Klipschorns, so just get yourself some little Bose cubes and an Acoustamass subwoofer.

Sorry, I'm time domain deaf.

---------------- On 5/22/2005 2:59:11 AM dragonfyr wrote: Heavens no! I am simply having a bit of fun with ALL the 'flatlanders' out there! ---------------- When you say 'flatlanders', are you referring to the time domain or the frequency domain?

Dr. Who, your explanation makes perfectly good sense to me. My friend has loaned me a book, "Sound System Engineering," which explains the same thing pretty much. You don't want to EQ for people's hearing response because their minds have already compensated for that and it sounds natural to them. If you try to boost frequencies they are deficient in it won't sound good to them.