mikebse2a3
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Posts posted by mikebse2a3
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9 minutes ago, babadono said:
Dave, perception bias is a real thing, just sayin'
Yes and I hope most people that have been in this hobby have learned to account for it.
What do you think is the reason why a person that makes assumptions about an event they didn’t attend or assumptions about people they haven’t met and haven’t even done a side by side comparison and yet he concludes those who did are unjustified in their opinions..???
miketn
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4 minutes ago, richieb said:
In this day and age people not accepting another’s opinion without being coerced, bullied or called the “label” of the day? Say it ain’t so Mike.
Hey Richie I could tell more but I’ll let this shocker settle down first.
miketn😄
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14 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:
I think you are getting all worked up over nothing. If you've heard them both and found nothing wanting with the III, just consider yourself $$ ahead.
👍😄Seems a couple on here just can’t except others having different opinions from theirs and if you do your just a gullible “Fanboy”….
miketn
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18 minutes ago, ODS123 said:
Nor have I despite playing every imaginable genre at volumes ranging from whisper to "turn it down, the neighbors are complaining!".
Again it isn’t a playback volume activated issue and not all recordings will expose it to the same degree.
If someone is really interested then perform a reference comparison with Pink Noise which will reveal the resonance coloration when the two are compared and of course this would be even easier to hear if done outside without the influence of room modes.
miketn
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6 minutes ago, ODS123 said:
In every other scientific field the placebo effect is acnknowledged, respected, and accounted for. ..But not in audio.
Yes the placebo effect “can” play a part in a comparison and should always be taken into consideration… so do you always blindfold yourself when you make your comparisons…? 🙂
Like you said Roy has the knowledge, equipment and ability to verify his advancements in designs and I’m sure he is well aware of the dangers of the placebo effect.
miketn
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9 hours ago, Flevoman said:
I've read a lot about the resonance of the CW3
I never really noticed it to be honest.
Maybe because I never play the music at a loud volume, or maybe the resonance was the warmth in the sound that I liked with the CW3.
Its not a volume issue with loud music playback levels but a case of certain recordings that have the required frequency/energy in that part of the spectrum to excite the acoustical cabinet resonance. This is similar to how room modes can be excited by some recordings and not by others due to the frequency/energy spectrum of the recordings.
miketn
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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:
Weren't the CW111's developed by the same engineering team?? ..Klipsch had computer modeling and anechoic chambers then, as they do now. ..To me, it's basically amounts to product life-cycle management. ..Make small changes but proclaim them to be quite large. ..But when you compare them side to side w/ volumes matched and the listener blinded, I'm betting they sound pretty much alike.
Not to my ears at least under well controlled conditions as you describe with the exception of being in the blind there were obvious differences which I have no doubt I would be able to perceive in the blind as you say. 🙂miketn
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16 hours ago, Flevoman said:
I had hooked up and positioned the CW4 exactly as I had done with the CW3.
3 meters between the speakers, listening position 3.5 meters from the speakers. Towed the speakers in so they are facing me and removed the grill.I would strongly encourage you to treat each speaker independently and not assume that the best position for the CW3 and CW4 would be the same.
In my experience the CW3 “which is a very good loudspeaker” but it does have some box related acoustical resonance “not to be confused with panel resonance” that the CW4 design has clearly improved upon. I experience this acoustical box resonance as a coloration and lack of clarity/masking effect on some recordings that excite this region. In my experience this “type of coloration” can be experienced as “good or bad” depending on recordings and also depending on the loudspeakers positioning relative to room modes.
One important test (among many) I like to use when setting up/evaluating loudspeakers and optimizing there location relative to the room modes is Pink Noise. If a person educates themselves to how Pink Noise should be experienced as smooth and uncolored when reproduced (Reproducing Pink Noise over good quality headphones is one good method to educate the ear to properly reproduced Pink Noise) then you have a good tool to evaluate the loudspeaker as well as its positioning in the room relative to the room modes for the best positioning and also helps in locating the best listener position as well. I suggest listening to Pink Noise from each loudspeaker in mono first while adjusting loudspeaker/listener locations until the smoothest and least colored reproduction is experienced and then in stereo to test for best spacing between loudspeakers for good center imaging with again the smoothest reproduction of the Pink Noise.
miketn
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2 hours ago, partymark said:
How often would you say I need to do the Danish Oil refinish? Any reason I would apply with steel wool over just rubbing on with a cloth, would the steel wool not scratch the veneer?
These aren’t oil finished veneers. They have a lacquer finish and should not have any oil finishes applied. Follow the cleaning instructions that come with the current Heritage Line which is usually just dust or a very lightly damped cloth.miketn
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I would love to be there listening through the Heritage Jubilee they are my new reference in music reproduction. 👏🙂
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I’ll take these if still available …. sending a pm
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This is a note I made of variable multiplication factors I used (I developed these through trial and error) that allowed me to calculate the new Xilica Lo-Shelf Frequency Set Point based on Amplitude Set Point of the filter that gave me results very close to the EV Units Lo-Shelf performance.
Note: I found the Xilica Lo-Shelf 1.80 Oct(Q=0.751) set-point best to equal the EV 12db Slope set-point and then adjust Frequency Set-point based on Amplitude Set-point and my multiplication factors listed below.
For example: EV-DC One. Xilica XD4080
Lo-Shelf Lo-Shelf
-10db -10db
5400Hz. 4200Hz (5400Hz x .7775 = 4198.5Hz)
12db Slope. 1.80 (Oct) / Q= 0.751)
EV-DC One Xilica XD4080
Lo-Shelf Lo-Shelf
-1db -1db
2500Hz 2500Hz (2500HZ X 1.0 = 2500Hz)
12db Slope 1.80 (Oct) / Q= 0.751)
Again what I basically found was at -1db Amplitude of the Xilica Set-point no Frequency Change was needed but as the Xilica Lo-Shelf Filter Amplitude Set-point was increased the Frequency Set-point needed to be adjusted lower to match the EV Lo-Shelf Filter.
miketn
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3 hours ago, babadono said:
"it doesn't matter" yea its the same but different
@mikebse2a3 can you expound more on what the differences with the shelving filters are /were? Or do you not recall the subtleties?
Let me see if I can find my notes from about 2 1/2 years ago when I was researching it.
I remember when using the Xilica I selected the Octave/Q set point and then having to Change the Frequency set point depending on the Amplitude set point to achieve the matching simulated output with the Xilica that matched the EV Shelf filter settings simulated output response.
If any one wants to play with this just download the editor/simulation programs for the EV DX38 and EV DC-One and program them using Roy’s Settings and this becomes your reference output curves. Then do the same in the Xilica editor/simulation compare them with the Xilica results and then start tweaking the Shelf Filter’s parameters in the Xilica until the output curve results match the EV reference curves.
miketn
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1 hour ago, Chief bonehead said:
It doesn’t matter. I think the xilica describes shelf filters a little differently than what I have listed.
It’s been awhile since I used the EV DX38 and EV DC-One versus the Xilica XD4080 program simulators but I definitely had to change some of the shelf filter’s parameters in the Xilica to achieve identical projected output responses from the Xilica when compared with the EV DX38 or EV DC-One.
Note: Both EV units behave identical with the same parameters settings which I simulated and verified with output measurements several years ago.
miketn🙂
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8 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:
Attached are the 402 with ls and 402 with jub lf
LS AND K-402-hf with k-691.docx 13.56 kB · 13 downloads KPT-KHJ-KF AND K-402-hf with k-691.docx 13.49 kB · 10 downloads
@Chief bonehead for clarity are these the settings using the Xilica or EV DX38
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24 minutes ago, Chermerkin said:
Polarity is good. Do not misunderstand me. The sound is stunning.. at high levels. It opens up and fill the room like never heard before. But most of my listening is at background level. U know, kids/family. Its like the soundstage shrinks and bass disappears while volume goes down. Hoped its because the speakers is still new and need more brake in.
In my experience recordings have been mastered and balanced to a given SPL which results in an optimum playback level. When a person plays the recording at less than optimum level then tonal balance shifts with a sense of less bass and soundstage shrinks. Ideally Variable Loudness Controls and Tone Controls can compensate to a limited degree but unfortunately systems with well designed controls like these are pretty scarce.
miketn🙂
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Just to eliminate the basics I suggest you verify the polarity of both loudspeakers to receiver has been maintained. One simple and quick way to do this is to take the speaker wires loose from the amplifier and touch them to a battery. The woofer cones should move outward when you touch the (+) battery terminal to the (+) side of your speaker wires. This will confirm the external speaker wiring and internal wiring of the loudspeakers are correct.
A more complete/detailed description of your room/setup might help us understand your acoustical room situation.
Pictures of the room/install would greatly assist us in offering help. If pictures aren’t possible then at least some basic drawings with details about the rooms doorway/openings and loudspeaker and listener locations and how acoustically live or dead is the room.
miketn
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On 3/31/2022 at 5:46 PM, RandyH said:
k-402 / k-1133
This was a setup I had in my Garage for awhile with 904LF on their sides and was a project I had ideas to really pretty them up but headed in another direction before that happened but let me tell you they… Sounded Awesome and Vocals especiallywere excellently reproduced.!!! 🙂
miketn
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16 minutes ago, TubesGlo said:
At this point with the speakers positioned as they are I really have no complaints. They do everything well. Imaging, tonal balance and clarity are excellent at all volumes. Most impressive is how dynamic and natural the presentation is, 3 dimensional and just plain "real".
Based on your descriptions I would suggest that you “trust your ears” and not make changes based on some preconceived ideas of how a room should be acoustically treated. The most valid and ultimate test of your system’s performance is the listening experience and it sounds like you have an excellent performing system/room.
30 minutes ago, TubesGlo said:I've never toed speakers in this much or had them out this far in the corners and really not experiencing 1st reflection issues is new to me. I suppose I'm conditioned to believe absorption panels should be there in every situation which obviously isn't the case.
PWK noted loudspeakers having well designed controlled directivity have many advantages in reducing distortion for a given sound level along with advantages in direct versus reflective ratios as experienced at the listening position in typical home listening rooms and in your situation as described by your listening experience it sounds like the controlled directivity advantage means the use of typical absorption panels and their placement aren’t necessary in your room/setup and could actually head you in a wrong direction so proceed with caution would be my advice at this point.
miketn
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1 hour ago, Marvel said:
I used EH 2A3 Gold Grid and thought they were wonderful and priced well. I'm glad you were able to stock up.
My experience as well Marvel
miketn
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I’ve edited your pictures in an attempt to help show the details of you systems setup..
It would be helpful if you describe what audible problems your looking to improve.
How well does the 2 channel system image..?
How well does the 2 channel system currently perform in clarity and tonal balance.
miketn
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7 hours ago, Dave A said:
I have not seen the inside of the latest La Scala's but I will say this. If Roy is putting foam in there it is part of a whole system approach and another piece of the puzzle that includes cabinet, drivers and crossovers designed to work together. Putting foam in older LS's may or may not do the same thing. One thing that will work with all pre 1" sides is the dog house bracing. Of all potential modifications this one has the biggest return for the money spent BY FAR. You might not like the look but you will like the sound. I never let a set go from here without doing something about the side wall resonance. These will also reduce dog house resonance at the same time. I was going to say stop the resonance but there will always be some. It makes a dramatic improvement and there is a picture floating around the forum of PK doing just that. I would love to know why they were never incorporated into the design by him.
My understanding based on a conversation with Jim Hunter in the late 80s when I had a noticeable resonance cabinet issue in one of my new then La Scala was that Klipsch was aware of the “potential” side panel resonance issue. The braces between the dog house and side panels would eliminate the “potential” resonance but due to the cosmetic changes they caused and the more labor intensive cost (because they would required custom fitting in each cabinet) along with the fact that evidently the majority of the La Scala users at that time simply didn’t notice or have an issue with the “potential” resonance issue of the side panels so basically it was believed best not to put the bracing into regular production.By the way Klipsch’s solution for me was an offer to give me a pair of new Belle Klipsch cabinets which do not have the potential side panel resonance issue due to its different cabinet design and materials. Of course I took them up on the offer… 😄
miketn
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19 hours ago, babadono said:
I'm not tooting their horn but input transformers have legitimate uses. Eliminating ground loops, canceling Common Impedance Coupling and galvanic isolation to name a few. Like many things in electronic circuit design the proper component for job comes into play.
Absolutely agree… 🙂
Just make sure your using high quality transformers such as Jensen…
miketn
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3 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:
Doesn't seem like the Forum likes a short video, so you can go here also:
https://www.facebook.com/1033868025/videos/5383630198348498/
If you download it plays…
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Cornwall 3 vs Cornwall 4 impression
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I understand what you are saying but do you understand that just because the evaluation wasn’t performed in the blind it doesn’t mean the opinions expressed were wrong either or worthless..?
miketn