mikebse2a3

rplace ask: I have a question about sound absorbent form applied to my home theater/2 channel room. I have khorns along a 13.5-foot wall. ----------------------- First I would ask what are the other dimensions of your room? My experience in smaller rooms especially is be carefull about how much absorption you use especially if it isn't broadband absorption like say 2" thick panels. The sound can become lifeless and tonally unbalanced. Khorns also because of their dispersion characteristics will disperse the sound differently in the room than regular none horn type systems which will affect where and how much treatments you will need in your room. So far my experience is that I like using diffusion more than absorption to treat the room. I seem to get better clarity and imaging while still retaining good tonal balance and dynamics with diffusive devices. I've just not ended up satisfied in the long run using absorption around my Khorns in the 3 different rooms I've used them in even though in some ways the imaging was helped in some ways it was also harmed in other areas but more importantly to me the life/dynamics and realsim of the recording suffered. Of course no two rooms/setups are the same and someone else might have a different experience. mike

I noticed several SM120A horns for sell so I thought someone might want a single for a center channel possibly. NEW IN THE BOX EV SM120A Midrange Horn $65 plus shipping cost Thanks Mike

Hey Craig You most likely are on the right track here but I had a similar experience with a Chorus speaker once. My problem turned out to be the woofer itself. One winding off of the back of the voice coil had come loose and when the right tone would be played it would rattle. So if you still have problems you might swap woofers and see what happens. mike

Coytee you have a PM with phone no. I would love to hear some ALK extrem slope crossovers. I have a Cary 2A3 Push/Pull AMP and a (CARY)AES SE-1 Single Ended 2A3 AMP also and a CARY SLP98L PreAmp coming soon. So maybe if you do have a get together I might could bring them for people to listen to. mike

---------------- On 6/3/2005 10:33:23 AM ironwoods wrote: Do we just need to beat the current high bid of $202.50? ---------------- Hey ironwoods why take a chance just hit "BUY IT NOW mike

Just wanted to let anyone who might be interested know I've listed on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5779411954&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW My Cary/AES AE3 DJH Super Preamp with REMOTE and Jensen Copper in Oil Coupling Caps and Silver Signal Wiring with Silver Shield installed by Cary. MINT CONDITION! If any Forum Member wants it I will include NOS 6SN7s and extra Rectifier tube. Thanks mike E-Mail: mdbse2a3@cs.com Mention Cary Preamp in mail subject

Just wanted to let anyone who might be interested know I've listed on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5779411954&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW My Cary/AES AE3 DJH Super Preamp with REMOTE and Jensen Copper in Oil Coupling Caps and Silver Signal Wiring with Silver Shield installed by Cary. MINT CONDITION! If any Forum Member wants it I will include NOS 6SN7s and extra Rectifier tube. Thanks mike E-Mail: mdbse2a3@cs.com Mention Cary Preamp in mail subject.

Hi Tom Not sure with the Carver Control but if you want to have the 12:00 close to the 10:00 position then my guess would be at least the -6db to -9db option. Its said that most people will perceive -10db decrease as a halving of loudness level. So does that seem like what you hear when you go from 12:00 to 10:00 position on the Volume control? Also I would look at the tolerance and wattage size of the resistors already there. You can't go wrong with a tighter tolerance. Seems like years ago Radio Shack sold a pack of 1% resistors in small wattage approx 1/4w if I remember correctly if these did happen to be small wattage resistors in those locations. mike

First: artto says (Just "unqualified" is all. This is a cheapo unit that deserves no place in my system. If you can't "hear it" then the only two possibilties are that your "setup" is far from producing what it is capable of, or your hearing is deficient. -------------------- artto another great responce! Lets see now how many people here have reported no problems once the unit was setup correctly.Some people didn't realize there was a sensitivity switch on the back and that cured some audible problems they had when they first installed the Behringer.But the main thing artto is many people here haven't had the problems you mention so is everybody wrong and your right? Also the bypass function you mention sounding so bad according to the manual is acomplished by a relay which connects the input to the output when activated and I can hear it being activated when I use the bypass so basically you are listening to the input/output cables and bypass relay which should cause very minimal signal degration which is how I perceive the sound in bypass mode. Second artto says: EDIT: BTW Mike, read my post a little more closely. I, in fact, bought one of these, based on your (and others) recommendation. It has no place in my system. It's just an equalizer with lots extra memory and display features for the price. And I suspect I have far more experience with acoustics and live recording than you or most Forum members have. If that makes my "qualified" opinion offensive, so be it! ----------------------------------- artto(another example of attitude I can do without) I read your post "VERY CLOSELY" to begin with and very well "Understood" you had bought and tried the Behringer.What I didn't do was make assumptions that you have hearing problems or was unqualified in experience because you had a different outcome than myself and several other forum members who feel they have had very worth while improvements with the Behringer with no bad side effects. artto why do you feel capable of judging me or my experiences when you really know nothing about me? I don't care how many recordingss or anything else you have experience in when you begin to feel like your the "expert" then how can you learn from anyone elses experiences who differ from yours? Anyway for any one who wants to try the Behringer I would suggest as I did in the other thread that you do so with the option to return the unit if your not satisfied with what it can do in your particular situation and be aware there is a learning curve with the unit in how best to operate and adjust the EQs which except for artto I believe everyone I'm aware of has come to really appreciate the benefits of the Behringer in their situations. Neither I, artto or anyone else can tell you what sounds best in your particular situation and taste. mike

artto said: Seriously, if you can get your system to sound better using this bottom-of-the-line pro audio (yeah, right) product, hopefully its just your room (and not your ears) that have some very serious acoustical problems, none of which can be truly compensated for with this device. After initially hearing all the poop on here, I even went and bought one! It went back to Guitar Center. If you cant hear the detrimental effects that this cheap unit interjects into your system (even with the bypass switch engaged), maybe youd better upgrade to Blose. --------------------------------------- Well as the person who orginally started the other thread on the Behringer I would like to say that I take anything I said about this unit very seriously because I would never want to mislead or cause anyone to spend money on something that wasn't good. Since the orginal post many months ago I still stand behind my perceptions and reasons why the Behringer can and will help alot of people to achieve a better sound in most real world room situations. I can honestly say that in my system(with khorns)there is NO ADDED NOISE OR TURN ON THUMPS. Like any equalizer if you don't take the time to become familiar with the unit(or any other EQ) and also how sound adjustments interact with the System/Room on problems that our ear/brain perceives then you will never receive the full benefits that might be avaible to you by using an EQ of very good performance like the Behringer. As far as cost! I have judged the Behringer based on performance not on price. For my money the Behringer performs beautifully and I fill no need to spend more money. I'm sure in time as technology improves and becomes more cost effective units that can work in the time domain as well as the amplitude domain will prove to be even more beneficial. One other thing I love this forum and have tried to be a positive and helpfull supportive member and have talked to some really great people but the above post demonstrates one example of a post that turns me off of this forum and causes me to just say never mind. So according to artto as one of those people who has a bad room(hopefully not bad hearing)and I guess needing to "upgrade" my equipment to "Blose" I guess "my opinions and others" who have heard the real benefits from this unit don't matter much!!!! mike

Hey blindman You better get those Khorns finished cause your ALKs are going to be there soon mike

Thanks Blindman Alright! 2A3 guys helping each other out Anyway sent you an e-mail and we will work out the details. Mike

---------------- On 4/2/2005 7:20:26 PM J.4knee wrote: Why ya selling them? ---------------- I bought a CARY 2A3i push/pull amp and promised myself I would sell some equipment to by it. mike

For anyone interested I have a matched set of ALK networks for sale. Their numbers are: 146A & 146B. These where built by AL in January of 2004 and in perfect condition. Asking $400 plus shipping I can be reached at mdbse2a3@cs.com Please write ALK Crossover in subject line as I want open mail if I'm not sure who its from. Thanks mike

---------------- On 3/29/2005 8:45:21 PM IndyKlipschFan wrote: and...what did you think?? ---------------- I installed the Z-brackets in 1991 so its been along time. I've just rewired the Khorns so thats why I had this picture. The Z-bracket mounting is a subtle difference IMO. The reason I installed the Z-brackets in the Khorn goes back to when I heard the difference between Lascala that I owned orginally and then replaced them with Belles(which had the Z-brackets mounted tweeters)(K77M Tweeters where in both). I felt that there was just a little better clarity in the tweeter frequency range on the Belle compared to the Lascala. So when I bought the Khorns Klipsch had started mounting the Khorn Tweeter with the Z-brackets and being the type I am I wanted to do any improvements to mine I could. For those with Khorns or Belles: I Figured out a way to use my router to open up the tweeter opening without removing the Grille Cloth by taking the Squawker/Tweeter baffle out and then I removed the Squawker Horn and Tweeter from the baffle. I then made a Protective spacer(to push the grille cloth away from the baffle) from alluminum flashing and putting tape around the edges of the flashing so as not to harm the grille cloth I slide this spacer between the baffle and grille cloth through the Squawker Opening up to the Tweeter opening to protect the grille cloth from the router.(Make sure you space the Alluminum Flashing away from the Baffle enough to clear the Router Bit or what ever cutting tool you choose to use). I then made a guide of the correct(Kind of Like a Picture Frame) size for the new opening and centered it over the orginal opening and slowly kept cutting deeper till I had the opening enlarged. Simple Huh! Any way it can be done without removing the grille cloth but I wouldn't recommend it for your first wood working project though. mike

My Creek OBH-10 uses a 50K control I also have a DIY passive volume control using Nobel dual(stereo) 50K controls one for left and right channels. This way I could wire it as a 25K(wired in parallel)or use just one section for 50K. When I used it with a tube CAL D/A converter the 50K sounded best. A lot of tube equipment would probably work best with a higher impedance load like 50K and up. mike

Hi jc Hope this worked! Here is the Z-bracket on the K77 in my Khorn mike

I would like to buy it if its working OK I will PM/E-mail you mike

Colin ask: What does the red LEDs on the clipping meter really mean? is the amp clipping? ------------------------------ Hi Colin The red clipping indicater LEDs means the input signal is set to high for the Behringer. If this is happening to you check on the back of the Behringer next to the XLR connectors and you will find a push switch which will adjust the sensitivity of the Behringer and see if this helps in your setup. If you still have trouble then tell us how you have the Behringer installed in your system. mike

Tim said: I'm curious to know if you or anyone else has noticed smoother response on the RTA when playing pink noise on just one speaker at a time vs. playing both simultaneously. Speaking of using different EQ per channel in the bass, I decided tonnight to let one speaker carry almost all the bass from 25 to 50hz, while the other carries everthing from about 50 to 120 using the graphic EQ in dual mono mode. So far, the bass seems better this way, and something seems more open about the sound. But the real test is well be to see if I still like it in a couple days. Sometimes problems these settings create aren't apperent to me until I've listened to a variety of music. ----------------------------------------------------- Tim First I do use the average setting for the RTA. I feel it gives me the best information for my purpose of room/speaker correction. As far as a smoother response on the RTA with just one channel question, I have noticed mostly just a change in the readings with some areas smoother and others not as smooth. This makes sense because with two sources playing at the same time there will be constructive and destructive interaction from the two speakers at the MIC location and the room modes levels will change also due to the differance in source locations driving the room differently. The reason I might use different EQ settings in the bass that I mentioned earlier was to try to compensate for speaker locations or room conditions that would cause the sound from the two speakers to vary noticebly from each other tonally as well as cause the imaging to wonder from left to right as frequencies changes(My Goal Would Be To Have Both Channels Sounding As Much As Possible Identical To each Other At the listening Location). Not sure but seems to me a good way to test your settings for this would be to play a CD with say indvidual 1/3 Octave Bandwidths of Pink Noise through both channels at the same time and see how close the left and right channels track each other tonally as well as how centered between the two speakers the image of the Pink Noise stay as you play the individual 1/3 octave bands from approx. 300Hz down. Talk to you latter NEED SLEEP mike

Tim Yes the Auto EQ keeps tweeking itself so I just look for when things have pretty much slowed down in its frequency adjustments and then end the testing. I've noticed that with the RTA and especially on the fast settings that the individual frequency bands will vary in there readings which to me is normal for any Pink Noise Test I've done whether with the Behringer's Pink Noise Generator or a Pink Noise Test CD. I just try to observe an average for the amplitude reading I'm seeing for a frequency band and use that to start my adjustment settings. mike

Hi Colin I'm not sure there is much point in the FBD mode(which is using part of the PEQ filters) for our home listening rooms although maybe if you had a situation where we got into a feedback situation with a turntable/room setup combination that you couldn't solve any other way. I did find in my situation that the PEQ was really usefull for the frequency range approx. below 300Hz. The GEQ offered some improvement in this range but with the PEQ I was able to make very precise corrections for the problems I found in this range. So far I like using the GEQ and PEQ in combination to correct for the sound problems with my room. As far as the Width option I have to say it is enjoyable to use on some recordings. The Behringer reminds me of using a computer the more you use and play with it the better you get with understanding all its features. The Manual begins to make more sense as you get familiar with the Behringer. mike

Hey Tim I appreciate reading about your observations! I feel kind of like you about the Auto EQ it gets you in the ball park but I've not seen a situation yet where I didn't feel like I couldn't improve on its settings for the sound by using the RTA and a little trial an error. By the way here is some of my experience from a post on 1/4/05 when I tried adjusting the channels independently: --------------------------------- "What I noticed tonight when I ran a couple of independent curves on the left and right channels was that I didn't like it as well as when I had both channels with the same response curves. (This is what I mean by this EQ being so easy to use it invites experimenting which I hope will lead me to a better understanding of how I'm hearing sound in my room) Now I realize that when we EQ a speaker/room where going to affect the first response as well as the farfield room response(where most of us sit). I believe the reason for this was that by altering the left and right speakers independently that the first response was thrown out of balance for the left and right channel and somehow that wasn't perceived as natural somehow. But when I alter both channels the same at least for the most part the first response is altered the same for both speakers and was better accepted by me. Now I do believe that Adjusting the Left and Right Speakers indepently for different boundry loading say below 200hz or so but leaving every thing else above equal might be of benefit in some situations but in my case the speakers see pretty much the same boundry qualities. Anyway this was just an observation in my situation and I appreciate anyone elses thoughts or experiences on this." ------------------------------ I believe each room/setup is so unique and so many variables come into play that the best we can do is experiment with adjustment till we find the ones that work best in our own specific enviroments/setups. So I do believe like you said there will be times when independent adjustment of the channels will be called for and at the same time other frequencies/problems might require both channels adjustments to be the same.This is just another example of where we will need to trust our ears to decide which is the best method for each problem we hear. mike

"I wonder when I'll get tired of this and call it good enough" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Tim I don't know about you but I've been at this hobby for 33 years and it still stirs my curosity and especially the Room/System Integration aspect of it. The RTA of the Behringer is a great tool for seeing the Energy Spectrum of the sound(Music as well as Test Signals) and it helps me to better understand how best to deal with the problems I hear. I find the EQ sections are also great for learning about and exploring for sound problems. I feel the RTA alone is worth the purchase of the Behringer. I'm not aware of any other device(maybe some one else does?) with the resolution and quality of the RTA of the Behringer for the price. Tim do you find as I have that you understand the strengths and weakness of your system/room better because with the RTA you can visualize what frequencies you are hearing and corelate that with the problems you hear and have you been surprised what frequencies where actually involved? I've discovered a number of times that the Energy was actually in an area of frequencies I hadn't suspected by just listening alone. mike

For anyone interested in the Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer I noticed Parts Express has them for $299 and I bought the Behringer ECM8000 measuring MIC for $40 at the Guitar Center not sure what Parts Express gets for it. www.partsexpress.com The Behringer would be great for creating a few general tone curves and stored into memory so they could be recalled as needed to compensate for recordings or if more precise tonal compensation is desired it definitely has that capability. This unit has definitly not added any noise or hum in my system with Khorns. mike