steelie

I ran an SF-2 based system for nearly a year and used to think it sounded pretty good coupled with my Denon 2802. Then I upgraded to RF-7s and a funny thing happened. The Reference speakers sounded pretty dull - much better in every way compared to the SFs but the expectation was so much higher that overall, they were a disappointment. Then, I upgraded again. Now I have some separates juice powering the speakers, the 2802 is acting as a pre-pro, and the RF-7s sing like they were supposed to in the first place, almost. The Denon really has to go.

I can't comment on the RW12 but I can say that in a room that size the KSW12 is way outmatched. My room is slightly larger than yours and my KSW12 was always boomy and awful sounding. A month ago, I upgraded to a PB2+ and I've got the volume nob turned up about a third of the way in order to get all the sound I need. Whatever upgrade path you choose, you'll be happy you did. I stuck with the KSW12 way too long.

I use RB35s for surround, coupled with RF7s and an RC7. They're the last thing on my list to upgrade. Balancing them means they have to be turned up a bit but I don't feel like I'm missing anything over other bookshelf models and I cut the frequency at 80 hz, sending bass to my sub. I like them better than the RSx models, which I used to run a while back. That's just my experience though. My room is probably very different from yours.

I picked up an McIntosh MC202 the past week and, even coupled to my receiver, it's floored me every day I've listened to it. But, now the weakest link, the receiver, is exposed even more than before. So, since for various reasons I'm going to move this amp into a 2-channel only system, I was hoping to get some suggestions about what pre-amp to consider. Just to stick with McIntosh, I was considering the C40 or C42, but what else am I missing? Since it might be a little while before I get the cash to upgrade, I have plenty of time to do more investigating. Any suggestions on what to pair up with this 200 watt SS amp? I'm running RF7s in a large room, +3,000 cubic feet. Thanks in advance. EDIT: Ooops, 7,000+ cubic feet. Don't know where that 3,000 came from.

"With it sitting next to my Klipsch RF-7's, it DWARFS those RF-7's, unbelievable , it's BIG, not as big as I was expecting, but BIG" That was almost my same reaction when I got the PB2+ a month ago (Now I wish I could have waited the extra month for the Ultra). The only difference was that I was expecting big but not that BIG. Congratulations on the new purchase. I'm looking forward to hearing more about its performace.

Thanks for the input. I have a huge room but the PB2+ seems to fill it well. No volume issues here. Still, all this talk about the Ultra is making me kinda jelous. I wonder how the automatic EQ on the Ultra would react if it was coupled with a second sub that isn't being EQ'd? EDIT: Is it automatic or are the EQ controls simply on the back?

Wow. That is one heck of a setup. Ten channels, is that 9.l? I can't think of where you'd place the extra unless you run three surround backs. I do love my 202 and for me, it was obvious night and day since I went from a Denon receiver amp up to the McIntosh. I still have issues with the Denon that I REALLY don't like but that's another story. The 202 can only do so much to improve my sound and that's partly why I'm actively looking for a used stereo pre-amp ... likely the C40, C41 or C42 unless I get some other ideas first. (I don't think I have the patience to find two more 202s before getting a multichannel pre-amp so for now, this will be a 2-channel system) But, if you ever get the inkling to upgrade to the 252 or higher, send me a PM. I'd be glad to keep buying the 202, over and over again. EDIT: My ground loop hum is back. The S video was no real solution at all. I thought it was working but really, it just reduced the volume even further. I have everything connected to one circuit now and the amp connected to a PS Audio UO. That really cuts down on the hum but not totally. So ... my solution for now is to keep the analog cables from the universal player unhooked. I haven't tried the cheater plug solution. Will that limit the amp in any way or is it simply a safety issue? I guess 2-channel will solve that problem too. Hmmmm

I was scanning a magazine recently and saw a sub cable that seems to have a pigtail so that it can be connected to both sub inputs. I've always just connected to one sub input and seemed to have success. So, I'm sure this is old hat for most but what's suppposed to be the benefit of doing this. The signal from the output is still the same and the sub has its own amp so ... ? Just curious if anyone knew. Thanks for the help.

The MC206 doesn't have the autoformers either, right? I remember giving some serious consideration to that model and the only thing that steered me away was the fact that I really wanted the best stereo amp I could afford. Multichannel is great but not as important for me. Aside from the fact that the 206 has less power, how would you describe the sound difference the autoformers make? Just as an aside, since you're no longer using the Yamaha what did you do with the front effects speakers? Are you able to use additional outputs from the 206 to increase the power to other areas of your system? (Not sure how you'd do that but I always wonder) Thanks

Nice is understating it but YEAH ... it's a damn nice amp. I'm absolutely hypnotized by music and if that doesn't do it, I can stare at those big blue eyes forever. You're up the three of these, right Q-man? I'd follow you on that route, then get a C45 or C46 and run everything through there, but I just can't see myself getting to all those amps before buying a good pre-amp. I think its going to be 2-channel for me. Actually, my original idea was to bridge an MC162 to get 200 watts to the center and getting an MC150 for the surrounds but that's too much time and dinero for me. It took months for me to find this amp and actually get to it in time to buy it. Lots of disappointment on the way. Now I can say it was well worth it.

S Video cable from sattelite receiver to TV ... should have got there faster but the trick is done.

Alright dougdrake, you called it a mile away. It was the cable, or rather, the sattelite that was causing the hum. But I'm kinda confused on what that's telling me exactly. What does that mean in terms of the amp? Was the hum absent before because nothing hooked up had a three prong connector? Why? I'm not getting it. The gear is hooked up to separate circuits. Should I replace the sattelite cable or try to move things around so they're not so close to each other? That hasn't seemed to help so far. I'm just kinda stumped on this. Everything is on a separate circuit so how is the cable's hum even coming close to the amp? Is it traveling the wrong way on the component video cables and then to the universal player's analog outputs, through the reciever and to the pre-outs? What a trip. Since we're talking different circuits here, I just can't see how the power cables can be affecting each other. Anyway, in the absence of a two prong connector for the MC202, what can I do to eliminate the hum? If I hook the amp up direclty to the outlet, the hum is unbearable. If I hook the amp up to my PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, the hum is noticeable only up close, with no source compoonent on. I suppose that's an easy way out but it's not the best solution. I'd like to do this one right. Any more help out there? Thanks again.

Well, right now I've got it working with no hum but that's done by disconnecting the analog external input cables from the DVD and receiver. Jeez, I love this thing. Eventually, I'm thinking this rig is going to be hooked up only to a CD player, a turntable and a tape deck. No more video interference, which will be just fine. So .... C40? C42? Any opinions on either of these two models? Any suggestions on a great 2-channel pre-amp would be appreciated. Thanks again

Only thing with a three-prong outlet is the amp and that has its own dedicated isolated ground circuit right now. The receiver, TV and DVD player - all two-prong devices - are connected to a separated, dedicated isolated ground circuit through a power bar.

Hi all, I picked up a new amp today!!! It's a McIntosh MC202 and I couldn't be happier with its performance (other than hooking it up to a decent pre-amp) It's absolutely stunning how deep those RF7s will go. I never felt my 7s punch me in my chest before. That's what they do now. The imaging ... well, it was good before but now it's just so much more solidly placed. Anyway, I don't need to sing any praises on this machine. It's all been said. Now for the bad part. I picked up a hum in my system that I never knew I had before. I've isolated it far away from the amp so I know it's not the McIntosh. I can run the amp with everything else turned off and unplugged ... no hum. I run RCA from the receiver's pre-outs to amp ... no hum. I run RCA from CD to receiver, play music beautifully ... no hum. Cutting to the chase, I can hook up every component fine. The hum appears when I hook up the universal DVD player's six analog outputs to the receiver AND the three component video cables to the TV. Both have to be connected for the hum to appear. If I disconnect either one, then I get no hum. I tried to separate them as much as I could and I even swapped cables, no change. I'm truly bummed because if I leave the universal player hooked up only through the fiberoptic cable then I can't listen to SACDs. I was hoping to write to you guys asking for suggestions on a good 2-channel pre-amp to pair up with the McIntosh. I was looking at the C40 and C42. Maybe this will speed up my next upgrade but is there any solution other than leaving things unhooked until then? It could be a while before I find the $$$ for my next toy. Thanks for the help.

I'm a proud RF7 owner but I do enjoy other systems outside the Klispch line as well. When I saw the Cremonas, they were hooked up to a B&K amp and I enjoyed their sound quite a bit. It's a lot more delicate than I'm used to at home but not bad, in my opinion. I also found the cabinets to be quite beautiful, but I did balk at the price.

I know what you mean by "hole" in the midrange through a reciever but what I haven't been able to figure out is if the amp portion or the pre/pro is responsible. I'm sure there's plenty of people using recievers with separate amps, though, so someone should be able to answer that.

I haven't heard the SVS you mention and, in terms of audio, my experiences may be fairly irrelevant to you since I went from a KSW-12 to a PB2+ ... but, if the only thing holding you back from SVS is the fact that they're an Internet-only company then check out some of the threads from the past few weeks. There's plenty of testimonials about SVS's reputability and customer care is part of the deal. Yes, even over they Internet they accomplish that better than some B&M stores I can think of.

Yep, they'll suck your wallet dry, that's for sure. Still, those cabinets and the finish was so deep they sure were something to admire. And the Macs did make 'em sing. Well. Back to my RFs now. They sure make me smile too.

My RF7s are here to stay and I don't think they'll be moving from my house for quite a while. So, while I'm married to them for the long term, looking shouldn't be a sin. During a recent trip to a McIntosh store I saw a pair of Dali speakers that were absolutely stunning. The store had them hooked up to a 250 watt amp (one or two brdiged amps, can't remember). These speakers had a beautiful and deep, three-dimensional wood grain that just sucked you in. The sound was fabulous as well. (Of course, I'm sure the Mac amps and preamp had a lot to do with that) Very strong imaging, even in a very small, square room, and very wide soundstage. They also cost a pretty penny that sucked your wallet dry. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this Danish company and what opinions were on their line-up. Anyone? thx

I'd love to have an mc202 myself and have been looking for quite a while. Seems like everytime I find one it's too late, so I'm not too sure how many people are parting with theirs. McIntoshaudio.com has an mc150 for $2,600, though that's way out of my budget.

In my rig, the receiver's settings don't matter when I play SACD/DVD-A because the signal bypasses the receiver's circuitry through the analog cables. The small/large setting has to be done with the player's setup menu, otherwise the sub will turn on only if the SACD is encoded with an LFE signal.

Congrats on the new purchase. Getting my SVS out of the box was a breeze compared to getting it up the stairs and into its final position. I can easily say that I did all that work with a smile on my face, though.

Glad you took it in good humor. I was concerned about rudely taking your thread off topic. Anyway, did you get a chance to check out Denon's Web site? It really does have a lot of good information. http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=57

It came up as part of a Web article I was reading about powering up an HT system. I should add, I've been awfully unhappy for a long time with a Monster power strip/conditioner I bought under pressure a few years ago but I recently added two new dedicated lines for my system and I had such amazing results with the improvement of every single component in my system that it brought me full circle and I am again dealing with the question of power. I thought I had written off power conditioning devices for good until this experience. That's not to say I'm ever going to be happy with my Monster Power strip (since it gets absolutely no credit for the improvement the dedicated lines are providing) but if adding dedicated lines can make my system operate so much better, then maybe there are power conditioning devices that actually do what's advertised. I don't know, it's not necessarily a logical connection but for me, the question is open again. Anyway, I did A LOT of web surfing looking into power issues after adding the new lines and I'll check my history to see if I can find the article again. Thanks to all for the kind replies.