InFlux

That was a lot more feedback than I was expecting. Thanks guys. Epoxy sounds like the ticket I was looking for. I really do not expect the magnet to get warm enough to cause problems. Dr. Who, you've got me thinking about the polarity. The bucking magnet itself is still glued inside of a sleeve that slides over the woofer's magnet (pretty slick design). I don't think I'll have any problems - but I will double check. Thanks for the heads up. My 6.1 configuration will be complete and open for your enjoyment on Sunday night, come on by!

I have a KLF-C7 that was damaged in shipping. Both bucking magnets came loose and wreaked havoc inside the speaker cabinet. Fortunately the horn and its driver are fine. Both woofers were damaged, so I have replacements ready to go in. The replacement woofers do not have the bucking magnets attached & I want to reuse the old ones. How do I attach the bucking magnets to the replacement drivers? Do I simply hot glue or liquid nail the bucking magnet cap on?

I so enjoyed testing out a Counterpoint amplifier last night with this CD and my KLF-20's that I just had to share. Wynton Marsalis - Joe Cool's Blues: 1. Linus and Lucy 2. Buggy Ride 3. Peppermint Patty 4. On Peanuts Playground 5. Oh, Good Grief! 6. Wright Brothers Rag 7. Charlier Brown 8. Little Red-Haired Girl 9. Pebble Beach 10. Snoopy and Woodstock 11. Little Birdie 12. Why, Charlie Brown 13. Joe Cool's Blues (Snoopy's Return) It is Wynton's take on the classic Peanut's cartoon music. While the CD gets mixed reviews from Jazz purists, I rather enjoyed it. The quality of the recording is good and the imaging is fun. Several of the recordings were not excessively cleaned up, and they provided a more "raw" sound vs a sound booth production (track 1 for example). I would consider this a cd that simply makes you smile while you tap your toe. Amazon . com has sound bites you can listen to before you buy. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did.

This could be incredible if setup well with proper acoustical treatments - or a nightmare with all those reflective surfaces in a square room with hardwood floors. Please don't tell us this is a two-story room at about 16' high! I would not invest in subs until you tame the room's acoustics. Add a heavy area rug and heavy drapes to your shopping list to start with... Otherwise, sign me up for the grand opening!

The goal of toeing-in your speakers is to find the place where the imaging is the best. FWIW - you've probably seen this webpage before (this more relates to speaker placement, but some people may find it helpful): http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html Here is what I found worked best for my setup: The angle from the corner of my 20's to my primary listening position is about 25*. I then found the imaging was best when I aimed my left speaker at my left shoulder and my right speaker at my right shoulder. A laser pointer placed along th centerline of the speaker may help. At that speaker placement and angle, I can close my eyes and pin point each musician on the sound stage. I can typically fool most people into thinking I am playing music w/ suround sound & center channel in my 2 channel (+ sub) mode. Once you get your speakers placed and toe'd, then set your levels again.

While the RC7 is a great speaker, it is simply not a match for your Legends. Been there. Tried that. I worked desperately to match a reference center channel to my legend speakers and was never happy with the results. I have extensive center channel bass management and equalization capability in my receiver, but still had no luck. Replacing the center channel was an instant fix. There are several C7's on this forum right now. I'm sure there are some subject matter experts here who will gladly recommend a good pre-amp / amp setups for you...

Have you considered making the jump to a separate amp? Your other option would be to use your pre-outs from your Denon to feed a 2 channel amp more capable of driving the 20's. An amplifier that is stable at lower impedances and has good dampening will do wonders with those 20's. I recently began experimenting with my 20's. I went from a "100 watt" AV Receiver to an older 150 watt 2 channel unit. It made a pronounced difference in my bass and midbass. My 20's sounded like different speakers. I'm sure there are many members who could provide recommendations on a good 2 channel unit for this application.

That is strange... Anyways, can you email me some pics to: oldstang2@yahoo.com ? I may be interested in both the C7's and the black S6's...

You have email.

I couldn't agree more - pay a cabinet maker to do it correctly. If you don't build the box properly you can get rattles or air leaks. My first couple of boxes needed a bit more caulking than usual... All you would have to do is give him the dimensions of the box, details on any bracing on the inside of the box, and how big/where the holes need to be. The cabinet maker may be able to give you some other options - like 1" MDF instead of 3/4. Similarly, they can easily put a wood veneer on the box for staining. Make sure you take into account the volume of the bracing (you want to brace this thing) and adjust your box volume accordingly. Make sure you are clear on INTERNAL or EXTERNAL dimensions (your calculations will be for the internal dimensions --- add the thickness of the material for outside dimensions...) I'll get off my soap box now... If the volume of the box is the same, copy the port size (internal diameter), port length, and port placement (I would suggest 1 in each corner - maybe redtop can chime in on how he did his????). -InFlux P.S. A friend has dibs on my spare 20's and a spare pair of 10's if I decide not to keep them --- sorry! P.S.S. Redtop read my mind ~ and he types faster than me

That looks great. What a monster! So it looks like you did what was discussed above - replace the motor board and re-orient the speakers. Is that correct? Did you do anything differently with the ports? Did you leave them alone or move one in each corner (like what was mentioned a towards the top of this thread)? I have an extra pair of 20's in the closet, this just may be the inspiration I needed. Thanks for sharing your handywork.

I would recommend doing some educational reading before you start cutting boards. For example - here is a simple to understand book that gives you the basics (I'm sure other forum members can recommend their favorites): http://cgi.ebay.com/Building-Speaker-Systems_W0QQitemZ4560510621QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Sealed enclosures tend to be tolerant of odd enclosure shapes - so yes, they are predominantly volume dependent. That is why car stereos often go this route - they can make the shape of the box fit the available area. Ported boxes need the correct volume in order to be tuned to the proper resonant frequency based upon the driver's characteristics as well. But in this case, the proportions of the box will also impact the propogation of the bass waves that are trying to escape the box - and this also ties into the port design. This is kind of like cavitation of fluids in pumps that impede flow (sorry for the geeky example). The driver size does tend to define the width of the box. The other two dimensions (depth and height) are typically a ratio based on the width.

Ported speakers (in general) perform differently depending on the box proportions (Height vs. Depth vs. Width). Port placement, size, and shape also comes into play. You can find books on speaker building that provide rules of thumb for such decisions. You're best bet is to stay as close to the original box ratio as possible. I'm sure somebody can give you more specific details based on their experiences with this endeavor.

I like the way you think!

Exactly. I started with a pair of KLF-10's and a friend talked me into the 20's. I bought a pair sight-unseen. I A/B tested the 10's and 20's side-by-side when I got the 20's home (after re-glueing the cabinets - glue failure is a common problem with these speakers). I found what Rich said to be very true. There is a large difference between the 10's and 20's. There is a smaller difference between the 20's and 30's. I think you'll be very happy with either the 20's or 30's. The 10's would make a nice surround speakers if you can't find any KSP-S6's to use. The 10's should be cheaper than the S6's as well.

Have you kept in mind that you may want to angle the speaker up a bit? That will change the size of the opening that you need. A fellow forum member reminded me of that before I placed my center speaker. His simple suggestion to me was to use a couple of rubber door stops (from Home Dep*t) under the speaker. When placed correctly, you can't see them (buy dark ones!) Keep thinking outside the box - like kelA did. I couldn't find a unit to fit my C7 center (similar in size). Then I just took out the second shelf under my TV stand and placed my C7 (similar in size) on the first shelf. Looks great and fits great. With it angled up a bit, it sounds as good as placing it on top of the TV (although I had to move it forward and backward on the shelf to get the distance just right with the mains). Unless you are placing the center speaker in an enclosed back entertainment center, you shouldn't have to worry about the rear port.

That is a great center channel speaker. You bought the RC-7, right? If so, I hate to tell you this, but that is not the timbre matched center channel speaker for your legends. You bought a reference series speaker to go with your legends. I did this initially as well. Over time, I discovered that I could never get the mains and center channel to blend correctly. I wish somebody had explained the difference to me back then. It would have saved me some frustration. You may want to consider returning the RC7 and finding a KLF-C7 on ebay or buy the one listed in this forum. I believe you'll be much happier in the end. You'll also save a few bucks. Of course, you may like the RC7 so much that you'll end up with the RF7's - that wouldn't be bad either.

---------------- On 6/27/2005 1:32:55 PM Kris B Krunch wrote: 35 watts per channell ---------------- Yes... Sony is optimistic with their power ratings. Please keep in mind that woofers reproducing bass (with the goal of moving as much air as possible!) are what suck power like crazy. Your horns are quite efficient. If you go with the RB's, I bet you'll be craving that sub pretty soon anyways - regardless of your receiver. Does this receiver have speaker size settings for your mains (e.g. "large" or "small")? If so, add a subwoofer, set your speaker size to "small", and let the subwoofer handle the bass. The beauty of the high-pass filter of the receiver is that it frees up your drivers to focus on reproducing the higher frequencies which do not require as much excursion (or as much power). Yes, your midrange might not be as tight as if you had a Denon or an HK. Yes, you will not achieve the SPL's you would with those other receivers. But how often do you plan on listening at 115 + dB? As a simple point of reference, I went from an 85 Watt per channel Yamaha to a 110 Watt Sony ES unit and I noticed more power with the Sony over the Yamaha. That was with large speakers (KLF-10's). Don't sweat it. Enjoy it for now. Upgrade later.

---------------- On 6/22/2005 9:11:16 PM merkin wrote: I'm I did notice about the setting that with large you get the whole spectrum and with small the cross over was at 100. I would really like to have the cross over lower like 80 or 60. ---------------- The Sony DA5ES (a few years old) allows you to independently change the mains, center, rear, and rear center's crossover points independently of the other speakers down to 40 Hz and upwards of 200 Hz.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention... the KLF-20 crossover schematics are archived in this forum somewhere. Again, do a search and you should be able to find them. I would be curious to know if you decide to do this and what your impressions are as I have considered this for my 20's as well. It would be interesting to upgrade a single crossover at a time to (a) compare the difference and ( to save some $$ if you don't notice a large enough result to justify the cost! Those parts are not cheap! Good luck & keep us posted!

Dean has actually shared much information on this topic if you do some thurough research. He is not so much changing the values of the components in the crossover as he is upgrading the quality and accuracy of those components. Think of it this way in regards to accuracy: Your crossover is comprised of resistors, inductors, and capacitors. Each has a quality level associated with it. Typically it is measurable. For example, how close is the actual value compared to the stated value for a resistor. It may say 20 ohm, but it may measure at 18 on a multi-meter. A series of "slightly off" components may or may not impact the sound. I can't speak for Klipsch, but I would be suprised if they did a 100% QC on those raw parts during production. In regards to quality of parts, I can't remember off hand if he swaps the type of capacitors and inductors (e.g. air core vs. iron core). I remember seeing him discuss this as well as the brands he prefers. Dean has had good sucess at proving that there is a difference - according to his loyal customers. There will always be believers and doubters.

Nope. Not the voltage selector. Most receivers have an impedence selector switch on the back in addition to the 110/220 V selector.

I would be interested in knowing if your impedence selector on the back of the Onkyo is in the correct position (only change this when the unit is off). Have you tried different source material (to rule out the possibility of a bad recording)? If it was a bad source, it would happen at the same point each time...

---------------- On 6/22/2005 8:11:16 AM shane_0_mac wrote: I think that in all reality 6.1 and 7.1 are the same thing. Yes 7.1 has one more rear speaker but it is the same signal to both speakers. If I am wrong about that please correct me, but I am sure I read that somewhere. So having a 7.1 receiver and using 6 speakers in no big deal. ---------------- That is what I've been told. Most movies anymore have at least 6 discrete channels (5.1). Fewer yet have 7 channels (6.1). I have not seen any recorded with 8 channels ("7.1"). Someone please jump in here if I'm wrong! Anything more than 6.1 is the result of signal manipulation to get the additional channels. Thus, 7.1, 8.1, etc... are all splitting an existing sound channel(s) across additional channels.

---------------- On 6/22/2005 7:49:46 AM gcoker wrote: It's the same way Blose sells there plastic. (Ignorant consumers) ---------------- Ouch. I think I paid $400 new on closeout, so I'm not too upset!